Audioholics, weigh in.

[Johnd]

The law took away my RIGHT to choose weather or not I want to wear a helmet. Doing so only affects me

Not true. If ten other people swerve to avoid your roadkill and they get injured, and are uninsured, under your country's form of socialized medicine, they will be treated and the state pays the bill.

 

[Sheep]

You are on the side that believes that nobody should be able to tell you what to do and that is fine but laws like this are put into place precisely because there are many people who absolutely will not do what is good for them. People have to be forced to wear seatbelts because believe it or not there are still people who will not do so.

You are rationalizing Sheep.

- You say you are an incredibly skilled biker, which I have no reason to doubt.
- YET, you say all of your path is 'Safe'. There is no such thing.
- You don't want to be told what to do because you have an inner belief that under no circumstance will you ever be faced with a situation beyond your control. That is definitely false.
- You WOULD wear a helmet because you do recognize that it is important safety equipment, yet you WON'T because you are being told to do so.

Again, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you don't learn the hard way that fate is often not in your control.

Some of your statements are taken out of context. I wear a helmet in a dangerous situation or terrain (bike trail, tricks etc). I DON'T wear one riding to work, it's a sidewalk. If I'm in serious danger there, isn't everyone? What about people walking? If you're mindful of your surroundings, and leave yourself room (physical room, speed monitoring, monitoring how fast objects are approaching etc) to avoid danger, you should be fine, no matter what anyone else is doing.

Also, I wear a seatbelt, because cars have more destructive force then bikes and people.

SheepStar

 

[highfihoney]

You don't need to keep telling me helmets are safe. I know that.

My point is this. The law took away my RIGHT to choose weather or not I want to wear a helmet. Doing so only affects me, it doesn't affect anyone else's safety or rights.

Correct and its a BS law,no matter where you live the right to decide is important.

 

[Davemcc]

My point is this. The law took away my RIGHT to choose weather or not I want to wear a helmet.

SheepStar

And yet you are unwilling to discuss the liberal/socialist social engineering programs that lead to such intrusive laws and restriction of personal liberty? The catch phrases "It's for your own good" or "It's in the public interest" have far more often led to oppression than civil liberties. Re-examine the politics behind the law and you will see how the law came to be, your place in the political spectrum and what you can and should do about such laws.

 

[zildjian]

Here in Louisville, you would have gotten another ticket for riding your bicycle on the sidewalk! Sidewalks are now off limits to bikes; we're supposed to keep it on the road. Maybe 4 roads around where I bike (or biked...) have bike lanes, the rest of the time, you can ride in fear of your life! I bike now less than ever because of it; it's too dangerous to bike to travel now, have to load up the bike and drive somewhere that's less traffic heavy, then get on the bike...

Don't know if the helmet thing is a law here or not for bicycles. I wear one on my own accord, but I don't care for being made to do anything; I like having my own decision to make that choice for myself. Laws like that, they can keep 'em. Helmets are a good thing, and no body in their right mind can argue against that, but no one should be forced to wear one if they don't want to as long as they are an adult.

On a side note, kids I think should be made to wear them. I hate sewing up a kids head after a bicycle accident when they didn't have a helmet on, and I ask "do you own a helmet" and they say no. That is irresponsible parenting which I see all the time sadly.

 

[Sheep]

Most of us have been around here long enough to remember that Playgirl photo you posted of yourself. It would be a shame to mess up those golden locks for lack of a helmet.

My hair is short.

Serve to avoid my body on the sidewalk? Wow, there is bad drivers out there, but they're not ALL on the sidewalk

Sheep: if you always seek out an opinion that matches your own, how do you ever expect to continue learning? Don't be so offended when rational people disagree with you...especially when they have good reason.

I choose who I learn from. For instance, I chose to learn from my driver instructor, who on the first day said there is no such thing as an accident; everything is avoidable with the proper training and action. Give this same training to drivers, and there will be less crashed. If there IS a crash, remove their right to drive. They show'd that they are not capable of following the training.

If bicycles were licensed and registered, this law in the Motor Vehicles Act would make sense.

Anyway, I'm out for the rest of the evening, good talkin'. Don't lose sleep of this

SheepStar

 

[stratman]

Well, I've decided to tape a six pack of Guinness to my head and use that as a helmet.

 

[Johnd]

Serve to avoid my body on the sidewalk? Wow, there is bad drivers out there, but they're not ALL on the sidewalk

Listen smarta**. I'm just kiddding sheep. I wanted to catch your attention.

I've been putting on over 100 miles per week for the past two months, and I know I outweigh you.

Anyhow, I ride purely for exercise, and a little sightseeing. I do a lot of sprints. And I drive on the highway, but down at the lake I drive on the path (sidewalk). And there are people.

I don't care how good you think you are. I've been two wheeling longer than you've been alive. All it takes is one person to make you tumble. One. If you think I'm fooling, and if you think you're quicker than me...try me some time. Just be wearing a helmet.

 

[Johnd]

everything is avoidable with the proper training and action

Wow. All I have to say is WOW.

You are showing your ignorance. For those of you unaware of this term, it does not mean stupid. It means that which you do not know. Think about it.

 

[pzaur]

Not true. If ten other people swerve to avoid your roadkill and they get injured, and are uninsured, under your country's form of socialized medicine, they will be treated and the state pays the bill.

Johnd - the fact that someone may end up as roadkill on a road has nothing to do with a helmet on or not. The only aspect that is affecting you is that there is "roadkill" on the road. That "roadkill" could have a helmet on or not. Having a helmet on will not guarantee survival in a bicycling accident/collision.

Whether or not an individual wants to wear a helmet should be a personal decision. Personal rights and freedoms are constantly eroded because people who make poor decisions don't want to be held responsible for their decisions. Look at all the people who break into houses, are hurt in the process, and then sue the OWNER of the house because they were hurt during the break-in. (The knife in your third drawer to the right was sharp and I sliced my finger off rummaging for things. Pay-up. You shouldn't leave sharp knives around with out proper notice!) (No, lawyers aren't the problem. Lawyers who take on this type of case are a result of the "it's not my fault" attitude.)

Personal Responsibility. That's all it comes down to. But then again, you can always blame someone else for what happens. People are now suing OB/GYNs because their child has Down's Syndrome! (Another Article) "If the test for Down's, which isn't 100%, had shown it was there, we wouldn't have had the child" (not a quote, but just a sarcastic third person). It's someone else's fault.

Decisions which should be up to us, as individuals to make, are quickly disappearing. All for the greater good. Right. Maybe the best decision for the greater good is to let us decide our own fates and not blame others or God for what happens.

All the government is really looking for with most of these laws is 1) our well being (who decides how I should feel? Me. Tell me the facts. NOT what to do.) 2)money.

-pat

ps - technically, it's illegal to look at a good-looking individual because you might offend them. Gouge out your eyes!

 

[Johnd]

Johnd - the fact that someone may end up as roadkill on a road has nothing to do with a helmet on or not.

This flies in the face of the facts Pat. The vast majority of serious bicycle accidents are related to head trauma.

I agree with personal rights. Where did I write that I do not? You generally have to fight for them though (fighting for them here in the forum doesn't count for much in the real world). This is especially true after rights have been taken away.

I agree with personal responsibility. Sheep should suck it up, pay the fine, and if he disagrees with the law that much (and I can certainly see his disdain for it), argue for a change in the legislature (parliament). That's being a responsible citizen.

And please don't get me started on overzealous attorneys and overly litigious people.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I think sheep should have gotten a warning ticket..........he said he was clean and had a good record. I am personally for helmet laws, seatbelt laws, and air bags. There are many that say "don't save me from myself". How about this. If you are set on not wearing a helmet, then if you DO crack your skull open on the pavement, you must pay the cost of medical treatment.......as I think if you are dead set on exercising your personal freedoms, you should be willing to back it up on all fronts.

 

[Audioholics]

Some of you get it, some of you don't. This was all about money, not protecting Sheep. All laws designed to protect people from themselves are about money. They may start from some poor old lady who lost her only son to a misfortunate accident, but eventually the local government takes it on as an easy way to bilk money from its citizens and look compassionate doing it.

I don't believe anyone ever killed ANOTHER person by not wearing their helmet or seatbelt.

 

[Johnd]

All laws designed to protect people from themselves are about money.

That's a far-reaching statement Clint.

The truth may be evidenced by the scores of underwriters and actuarial tables. Yes, unnecessary injuries raise insurance premiums as well as health care costs (for the unreimbursed care). And we have an absolute right to enact such laws to keep skyrocketing costs down.

I think it rather glib to profess that laws are not there to protect the citizenry (but are there only for the "money"). Don't you?

 

[jinjuku]

If we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws etc... Laws that are to protect you from yourself, then why hasn't smoking been outlawed?

I would venture a guess that smoking related illness cost us more as a society in insurance premiums and government subsidized health care than all the non seatbelt/helmet wearing related issues combined.

I think the issue is this: What's next? What is big brother going to pass into law to protect us from our selves? No running with scissors in the house? I believe in part that seatbelt/helmet laws are used for revenue generation. Lets make a law that you can't smoke while driving... Mr. Orwell had it right the first time.

 

[Johnd]

If we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws etc... Laws that are to protect you from yourself, then why hasn't smoking been outlawed?

I would venture a guess that smoking related illness cost us more as a society in insurance premiums and government subsidized health care than all the non seatbelt/helmet wearing related issues combined.

I think the issue is this: What's next? What is big brother going to pass into law to protect us from our selves? No running with scissors in the house? I believe in part that seatbelt/helmet laws are used for revenue generation. Lets make a law that you can't smoke while driving... Mr. Orwell had it right the first time.

I don't know about all that. Smoking is unhealthy, dangerous, impolite, expensive, carcinogenic, etc...but I still do it (cigars).

What's next? I do not know of too many accidents caused purely from smoking. But we all know of the latest rash of accidents caused by the incessant use of cell phones. That ought to be next. Too many people can't walk and chew gum at the same time. This has been proven. I'm all for outlawing cell phone use (at least hands free) whilst driving.

 

[stratman]

If we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws etc... Laws that are to protect you from yourself, then why hasn't smoking been outlawed?

I would venture a guess that smoking related illness cost us more as a society in insurance premiums and government subsidized health care than all the non seatbelt/helmet wearing related issues combined.

I think the issue is this: What's next? What is big brother going to pass into law to protect us from our selves? No running with scissors in the house? I believe in part that seatbelt/helmet laws are used for revenue generation. Lets make a law that you can't smoke while driving... Mr. Orwell had it right the first time.

Wait till Hillary gets in office! Mandate everything, regulate everything, she's even going to tell you what color underwear you must wear. Resistance is futile. Of course Slick Willy will be in nirvana, he'll get the run of the white house without doing anything (wait, that happened before) and all the chickies he can smuggle in without the old battle ax finding out!

 

[westcott]

Some of you get it, some of you don't. This was all about money, not protecting Sheep. All laws designed to protect people from themselves are about money. They may start from some poor old lady who lost her only son to a misfortunate accident, but eventually the local government takes it on as an easy way to bilk money from its citizens and look compassionate doing it.

I don't believe anyone ever killed ANOTHER person by not wearing their helmet or seatbelt.

You are right but it does affect all of us indirectly by making medical coverage, insurance and other related costs go higher.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

The law is the law...

The law is the law so wear a helmet. You may disagree with it but it's still the law. If you don't like it start a movement to get it over turned or move where the laws agree with your lifestyle.

Thats my opinion Sheep. Not being harsh it's just how I feel. (hence the smilies)

I do think you're being over confident though. You can't predict a tire blowout or a child running out from behind something. While maybe unlikely it's still out of your control and you could crack your head open at low speeds and low heights.



Side story:
I just bought bikes for my wife and I about a month ago. My son has become fast enough on his that I could not keep up on foot anymore. The law in our area is that children have to wear bike helmets but adults do not. So, my wife asked me if I was going to use a helmet or not. (We, like most of us, never had bike or skateboard helments growing up. The only people who had them were competitve athletes.) We agreed that not wearing a helmet would be the wrong message to send to my son.

Take care,
SBF1

 

[Johnd]

Thats my opinion Sheep. Not being harsh it's just how I feel. (hence the smilies)

So the absence of smilies makes my posts harsh? Hmmmmm. I was expressing my opinions guys, not trying to be harsh.