Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout Planned

[obsi]

hey! nice to see you here.

your guy has picked up the stuff btw

Nice to see you here too. The "stuff" should be in by Sunday. Am so excited, I've got the Black Ops figured out . But back to topic, I don't know why any brand would decline if they have confidence in their product. As Tom Cruise said "Show Me The Money!!!"

 

[bigbassdave]

As an Axiom fan I'm disappointed that they declined. I feel like one of my favorite baseball players was invited to the home run derby and refused to participate.

 

[mike c]

Nice to see you here too. The "stuff" should be in by Sunday. Am so excited, I've got the Black Ops figured out . But back to topic, I don't know why any brand would decline if they have confidence in their product. As Tom Cruise said "Show Me The Money!!!"

well, like Ed M. said. these are not like-priced subs nor are they like-sized.

in terms of SPL, the bigger subs would have the advantage
in terms of SQ, that would be highly subjective depending on a million factors (including the reviewer's taste, position of the sub, interaction of the sub to the room even when placed in the same location)

unfortunately, price wise, axiom would be at a disadvantage.

 

[obsi]

But if the PB12 Plus is in, isn't that right up let's say an EP500's alley? Oh well...

 

[gene]

But if the PB12 Plus is in, isn't that right up let's say an EP500's alley? Oh well...

Sure but Axiom won't send product for this shootout. They weren't too thrilled with our views on part quality affecting measurable and audible distortion in crossovers. See Crossover Brains of Your System Part II

They also don't feel a good enough standard is in place for quantifying audible distortion in subwoofers

Maybe once they see how we conduct this shootout they will reconsider about participating in our next one. We would love to include Axiom as we are big fans of their products, service and folks that work there, as you can see in our very positive editorial coverage and reviews of their fine products!

 

[billy p]

Well I know for sure this thread has been linked over at the Axiom forum. Considering you've established parameters and limitation for this contest which include size and cost constraints...maybe they should have reconsidered...much like Svs, or did they?
Any new participants to speak of?

 

[bigbassdave]

Sure but Axiom won't send product for this shootout. They weren't too thrilled with our views on part quality affecting measurable and audible distortion in crossovers. See Crossover Brains of Your System Part II

They also don't feel a good enough standard is in place for quantifying audible distortion in subwoofers

Maybe once they see how we conduct this shootout they will reconsider about participating in our next one. We would love to include Axiom as we are big fans of their products, service and folks that work there, as you can see in our very positive editorial coverage and reviews of their fine products!

If I remember correctly Gene, while you did not feel that the more expensive crossovers made a noticeable difference you were still quick to praise Axiom for using high quality parts. I'm still an Axiom nut through and through. I hope they decide to participate in the next shootout.

 

[gene]

If I remember correctly Gene, while you did not feel that the more expensive crossovers made a noticeable difference you were still quick to praise Axiom for using high quality parts. I'm still an Axiom nut through and through. I hope they decide to participate in the next shootout.

that's correct. It didn't make a difference on their speakers in my brief listening test, but that doesn't negate the necessity for using better quality parts for all speakers. I used to work as a telcom engineer prior to doing AH and I can tell you parts quality and tolerances are everything when trying to work with a SNR > 100dB across long loops of phone lines. I have heard speakers with and without part changes and properly compensated for DCR differences in magnetics that made a significant performance difference so mileage varies....

 

[obsi]

Maybe once they see how we conduct this shootout they will reconsider about participating in our next one. We would love to include Axiom as we are big fans of their products, service and folks that work there, as you can see in our very positive editorial coverage and reviews of their fine products!

Fingers crossed on the next shootout then...thanks!

 

[nickbardom]

I just gave up of buying the 4 EP800 Axiom subwoofers as Axiom declined. What would you recommend?

 

[KEW]

I just gave up of buying the 4 EP800 Axiom subwoofers as Axiom declined. What would you recommend?

If I was in the market, I would be patient and wait for the results of this "shootout" before I bought a sub.

I believe this will be a landmark event in sub evaluations!

 

[MinusTheBear]

Axiom subwoofers have always been said to be overpriced compared to the competition and there are better subs at lower price points. Its interesting that the discussion was on distortion measurements because that is what was noted about the EP600 according to 3rd party measurements over at home theater shack.

It would have been nice to see Axiom in this testing. If the EP800 would perform well it would dispel a lot of the talk surrounding the quality of their subs to the surrounding competition. Now I am suspecting the worse. With the lack of confidence in what I would think at that price point should be a product that can compete with any subwoofer on the market.

 

[billy p]

Why do some mfg's like Polk and to a lesser extent Axiom design subwoofers which are openly criticized by 3rd party measurements..yet design better than avgerage speakers.

 

[bigbassdave]

"Axiom subwoofers have always been said to be overpriced compared to the competition and there are better subs at lower price points. Its interesting that the discussion was on distortion measurements because that is what was noted about the EP600 according to 3rd party measurements over at home theater shack."

This is exactly why I was hoping they would participate

 

[obsi]

Was so curious if the 3rd party measurements on harmonic distortion of the axioms is what actually gives it its enveloping, warm, and textured characteristic. It has such a unique sonic signature that makes it blend so well with my mains compared to my other subs. So sad they declined.

 

[fredk]

I think you have it right obsi. From the few direct comparisons I have seen between the ep600 and pb13 ultra, there is a subtle but noticeable difference. That warmness you note. Nobody comparing the two thought it was a bad thing.

I suspect that Axiom does not want to take a hit on the measured distortion and that would certainly happen the way the review is structured. Axiom doesn't think that distortion in a sub is an issue unless it is very high. Many others disagree.

 

[gholt]

I just saw this and I'm looking at buying a new sub. So, I will hold off until after the shootout to see if this will narrow my search.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I just saw this and I'm looking at buying a new sub. So, I will hold off until after the shootout to see if this will narrow my search.

IMO, the testing that audioholics will conduct will act as yardstick for subwoofer performance and a useful tool as a consumers buyers guide. I have a feeling that those manufacturers that take part in this will benefit greatly from this exposure because if the models measure up both objectively and through subjective listening it will bring attention to each manufacturers lower priced models as well.

 

[gene]

I suspect that Axiom does not want to take a hit on the measured distortion and that would certainly happen the way the review is structured. Axiom doesn't think that distortion in a sub is an issue unless it is very high. Many others disagree.

Actually I am in agreement about distortion in subs has little relevance if its not audible. This is why I don't typically measure distortion for subs. I listen when doing sweep tests for mechanical noise or audible distortion and back it down below that threshold when doing SPL vs Frequency tests. But oh well

 

[obsi]

Oh well indeed . Great review you did on the EP500 though, it's what made me get one . It's sonic signature is so unique that I still haven't heard anything that sounds like it. Most subs I've heard are just dry thuds, no texture.