Audio Critic's Ten Biggest Lies

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for your reply. I'm learning a lot today!

Now I understand how a laser can have a reading error, but wouldn't the checksum make sure that the data was interpretted correctly? i.e. the reciever saying "that didn't make sense, say it again" until either the message was delivered and it made sense (i.e. equaling the checksum) or it results in corrupted data (i.e. I don't understand, but keep going) and it skips that part?

Just trying to understand what's going on here!

Also, the error correction in the players are extremely good. If the errors are not correctable, you will hear them, no sound, pops, etc.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Did they ever release any follow up articles like that one?

SheepStar

Whom are you addressing here, or asking the question?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I love articles like the one cited here - it validates the common sense that seems to me missing in the high-end world.

Commons sense is a misnomer It isn't common at all, otherwise things would go smoother in everything

 

[mtrycrafts]

One more...

...I have been in this hobby of ours for close to 25 years ...
I have been designing and building speakers as a hobby for close to 20 years !

I had a master plumber with 20 years and taught plumbing courses to boot, out at the house over a water heater issue.
The first thing out of his mouth was that the external blanket needs to come off as it shortens and facilitates rusting of the liner; it went down hill from there.
I asked how so. He tried to tell me that the blanket traps moisture and condenses on the liner. I had a hard time keeping a straight face. Condensation on a surface that is 120F-140F? LOL. No need to go into all the other fables he tried to tell me that a parallel piping system cannot work. Really? And on it went.

So, being into something for 20 years, or 50 years is not a guarantee of anything, just that one worked a lot.

 

[jneutron]

I had a master plumber with 20 years and taught plumbing courses to boot, out at the house over a water heater issue.
The first thing out of his mouth was that the external blanket needs to come off as it shortens and facilitates rusting of the liner; it went down hill from there.
I asked how so. He tried to tell me that the blanket traps moisture and condenses on the liner. I had a hard time keeping a straight face. Condensation on a surface that is 120F-140F? LOL. No need to go into all the other fables he tried to tell me that a parallel piping system cannot work. Really? And on it went.

So, being into something for 20 years, or 50 years is not a guarantee of anything, just that one worked a lot.

Umm, Mtry? He was correct.

Example, a 40 gallon tank with two teenage girls. Guaranteed, the tank will be sucked dry of hot water on a daily basis. When that occurs, the cold refill water can easily take the tank wall temperature down below the dew point of the surrounding environment. When that occurs, condensation will result. The fiberglass blanket will trap that moisture, and hold it against the steel. As the steel heats, the moisture will indeed cause rust. And more than if the fiberglass were not there.

This is also an issue for home heat boilers when radiant heat is piggybacked onto an existing baseboard system. If the return water is below the dew point in the (basement), the external surfaces of the boiler will condense humidity. If the boiler is gas, the dew point of the exhaust will have a high dew point, guaranteeing a quick rust out. (this can be seen by putting a pot of water on a gas stove...immediate condensation occurs on the external surface especially above where the flames are, and when the water inside exceeds the dew point of the exhaust, the condensation dissapears.

But yes, his initial statement did seem counter-intuitive, didn't it?

Cheers, John

 

[zhimbo]

But according to them (the believers) if you can't , the test is flawed. "The concept of double blind test is flawed." as they like to put it.

It's amusing that these folks never understand that when they say "the concept of a double blind test is flawed", what they're really saying is "I need to know what the equipment is or I won't hear the difference."

 

[musicgioni]

I had a master plumber with 20 years and taught plumbing courses to boot, out at the house over a water heater issue.
The first thing out of his mouth was that the external blanket needs to come off as it shortens and facilitates rusting of the liner; it went down hill from there.
I asked how so. He tried to tell me that the blanket traps moisture and condenses on the liner. I had a hard time keeping a straight face. Condensation on a surface that is 120F-140F? LOL. No need to go into all the other fables he tried to tell me that a parallel piping system cannot work. Really? And on it went.

So, being into something for 20 years, or 50 years is not a guarantee of anything, just that one worked a lot.

I am not surprised by a myopic repply such as this one. What I was trying to say is that I am very involved in the deign of things and NOT for commercial gain but only for my own lesting pleasure and THERE ARE DIFFERENCES between components, between parts and between topologies. Only a deaf person would disagree with this but I see that there is really no hope with reasoning.

So all amps sound the same, all CD players sound the same. Why then NOT all speakers sounding the same too? beacuse they interact with he room? But the room does not count either according to Audio Critic. And what about performers? Accordign to this logic Vocal Cords are just that...lets treat the Vocal apparatus and the mouth as a "black box" and in this way Mariah sounds the same as Britney, Barbra Streisand or Patricia Barber...

Now back to being serious: There are differences between components friend and the more involved in the design aspect of things one is the more he knows about the reasons for these differences. As I said I agree with a lot of points that the Audio Critic makes but some of them are myopic at best and harmful in the worst case.

Again: I am not a dealer, manufacturer or in any way or form affiliated with any company or person in this industry for any commercial gain. I love music to the extreme and I appreciate the technology that make it possible for us to enjoy our music at home. I own a "high end" system and also less expensive systems in my house and NOONE that has listened to them has any doubts about which one sounds the best and more life like. YES< I ahve played around using my 300 dollar Teac receiver with my speakers (replacing my Musical Fidelity amp and the system sounded mediocre at best even at similar acoustic levels. The same holds for my JVC dvd/CD playing music compared to even the medicore Pioneer LD/CD playing the same music throught the same electronics...

Please do not forget that the world was flat up to relatively a few years ago! Even today there are people that will never see the truth even if it bites them in the a...!

Please read my first post carefully to see that it is a fairly "balanced" comment and do not get "angry" or ironic if someone esle seems to be more involved with a ceratin topic than you...


Cheers

 

[Seth=L]

Correction:

All well built amplifiers should sound the same at any volume as long as they have sufficient power to drive a given set of speakers within the sources full dynamic range*.

*This is of course assuming that the designer did not purposely add any coloration to said amplifier.

It is also worth noting that only like topologies should be compared.

 

[musicgioni]

I don't think anyone says this. Ever. This is often used as a reason to blow off skepticism, but in reality all the skeptics are saying is that well-made amplifiers, cables, etc - will all sound the same because they won't color the sound. That doesn't rule out amplifiers that aren't powerful enough to deliver dynamics or cables that don't have the gauge necessary to transfer proper signal.

Hi Clint, thanks for the comment but I have to disagree that "you do not think anyone is saying that all amps ot CD players etc. sound the same". They do. In Audio Critic they are trying to treat amps as "black boxes' and this is totally false. I totally agree that the equimpent that sound totally different are the speakers but also, two "properly" designed amps will in most cases sound different also. Small differences but differences nevertheless. I am an extremelly skeptical about lots of things also and totally oppose psuedo science, ridiculous prices of components (100K speakers, 90K turntables, 10K cables etc.) but I am not so "skeptical" to even refuse to listen myself as some people I have the pleasure of knowing (freinds) do. I have friends that can not hear a differecne what so ever listeing to a pair of Quad electrostats from a pair or Radio Shack "boom boxes". Unfortunately this is a ceratin group think I see in this group and even at Audio Critic. Out of the 10 "myths" Audio Critic preaches I accept about 3/4 of them but I can hardly belive some others.

Cheers Clint

 

[Hi-Fi ve]

And what about performers? Accordign to this logic Vocal Cords are just that...lets treat the Vocal apparatus and the mouth as a "black box" and in this way Mariah sounds the same as Britney, Barbra Streisand or Patricia Barber...

You listen to Barbra Streisand?

mtrycrafts asked some questions regarding level matching and following double blind test protocol. I'm curious what your answer be. Oh, and about the quality of audible sound that can't be measured yet, what are they?

 

[no. 5]

How about this; any two amplifiers that have been designed to be transparent, and handle a fairly reactive speaker, will sound indistinguishable when level matched to within 0.1dB.

 

[stratman]

How about this; any two amplifiers that have been designed to be transparent, and handle a fairly reactive speaker, will sound indistinguishable when level matched to within 0.1dB.

If I get two rocks put them side by side, take string and connect them, will they sound the same? Really they should.

 

[jneutron]

How about this; any two amplifiers that have been designed to be transparent, and handle a fairly reactive speaker, will sound indistinguishable when level matched to within 0.1dB.

How does one design "transparent"?

When pushing a reactive woofer, what is the midrange damping factor in all four quadrants..

Does anybody even know how to measure the four quadrant damping factor?

Does anybody even know what it is???

Or, why it can be different?

High end audio is just, so rudimentary..

Cheers, John

 

[no. 5]

Now you've both confused me... in fact I've confused me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Umm, Mtry? He was correct.

Example, a 40 gallon tank with two teenage girls. Guaranteed, the tank will be sucked dry of hot water on a daily basis. When that occurs, the cold refill water can easily take the tank wall temperature down below the dew point of the surrounding environment. When that occurs, condensation will result. The fiberglass blanket will trap that moisture, and hold it against the steel. As the steel heats, the moisture will indeed cause rust. And more than if the fiberglass were not there.

This is also an issue for home heat boilers when radiant heat is piggybacked onto an existing baseboard system. If the return water is below the dew point in the (basement), the external surfaces of the boiler will condense humidity. If the boiler is gas, the dew point of the exhaust will have a high dew point, guaranteeing a quick rust out. (this can be seen by putting a pot of water on a gas stove...immediate condensation occurs on the external surface especially above where the flames are, and when the water inside exceeds the dew point of the exhaust, the condensation dissapears.

But yes, his initial statement did seem counter-intuitive, didn't it?

Cheers, John

Well, you must be an exception to the rule running totally out of hot water and the whole tank getting that cold. Besides, most of the tanks today have foam insulation between the tank and outer skin. How come the outer skin which is steel, doesn't rust first? How does the moisture pass the hard foam? How does it pass enough, through the metal outer jacket? As soon as the burner kicks in, heat also is passed beyond the tank.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Please read my first post carefully to see that it is a fairly "balanced" comment and do not get "angry" or ironic if someone esle seems to be more involved with a ceratin topic than you...
Cheers

Oh, I did read your post. You tried to convince by authority not by evidence based issues, didn't you?
Getting angry? Not at all, no reason to.
But, I still don't see any response on how you determined all those audible differences. Would it be through sighted and flawed comparisons by chance? You could not have imagined things, right? Everyone else is deaf, not you? You can be involved but if your protocols are flawed, so are the results.

 

[jneutron]

Well, you must be an exception to the rule running totally out of hot water and the whole tank getting that cold.

Rule number 1...with two chicks in the house, long hair, and a 40 gallon heater, you will run out of hot water.

Rule number 2...A shower is not complete until the water coming out of the faucet is too cold to withstand.

Rule number 3...When rule number 2 has been invoked, it's time to let Johnny take his shower.

Rule number 4...I can never win that battle..

Besides, most of the tanks today have foam insulation between the tank and outer skin.

You did not specify whether your tank did or did not have foam. I replied with as near an explanation as possible given your lack of information on the issue... (havin fun wit ya).

How come the outer skin which is steel, doesn't rust first?

Because if it did, there would be no leaks..duh...Murphy is always there..

Hotter metal rusts faster..

How does the moisture pass the hard foam?

It gets between the foam and the tank. Expansion differences...it is not a hermetic barrier.

How does it pass enough, through the metal outer jacket?

Holes.

As soon as the burner kicks in, heat also is passed beyond the tank.

Yup. But the heat doesn't necesarily prevent rust.

My point here was...there will be many times when an expert in the field will tell us something that seems to defy commonly accepted understandings. There will also be many times when the person explaining does not have an understanding of the ROOT CAUSE underlying the explanation they are giving.

Would you prefer a really smart plumber who can't solder for a d##m, or one who is a master at the trade but not a rocket scientist?

I learn so much from the masters..but not so much from the rocket scientists.

Cheers, John

 

[mtrycrafts]

In Audio Critic they are trying to treat amps as "black boxes' and this is totally false.

Maybe you should engage DR David Rich in a discussion about this issue. Perhaps he has a few words of wisdom on the matter?

... two "properly" designed amps will in most cases sound different also. Small differences but differences nevertheless.

What is your evidence for this? TAC based their conclusions and caveats on listening, properly. Maybe they are wrong but you have not presented any evidence beyond anecdotes of your own. Not convincing. How well do you control your comparisons to come to your conclusions?

 

[MDS]

I learn so much from the masters..but not so much from the rocket scientists.

I think education is supremely important and one should constantly strive to learn more but the wisdom of experience can be even more valuable. I like that quote.

 

[zhimbo]

But the room does not count either according to Audio Critic. And what about performers? Accordign to this logic Vocal Cords are just that...lets treat the Vocal apparatus and the mouth as a "black box" and in this way Mariah sounds the same as Britney, Barbra Streisand or Patricia Barber...

This is a Strawman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

and completely off-base satire.

Differences due to room acoustics and vocal performance are understood, are measurable, are detectable through blind listening.

but I am not so "skeptical" to even refuse to listen myself

Constructive criticism means being willing to consider all evidence.

As far as I can tell you offer ONLY anecdotal personal testimony. You have studiously avoided discussing whether any of the differences you are referring to are detectable via blind listening tests. Will you consider such evidence?

Do you understand why they are more reliable than non-blind listening?