Audio Critic's Ten Biggest Lies

[mtrycrafts]

Totally agree. This is the reason the article loses credibility with me. Yes, obviously he is trying to get across his points, and fundamentally I agree with them. Though, his failing is that he bases his commentary on extreme, short sighted, conflicting arguments that are more likely to be heard coming from a salesmen than the fellow reviewers he attacks.

You should have been reading his magazines from day one. Then, perhaps you might get an idea what he is talking about, th ekind of listeing he has done or the technical folks he had around him. But, not knowing about him, his history, listeing protocol, etc, easy to judge, isn't it?

 

[mtrycrafts]

He is wrong here because class A tube amps do sound the best when matched properly.

Maybe the best that a tube can be, but that is the end of the story.

 

[mtrycrafts]

How do you NOT pay retail for those Monster stuff???

Buy used???

 

[miklorsmith]

Alright

I'll take the bait in a very limited expansion of my original statement, having been called out as clueless. No, I have not followed this author any more than Mtry probably reads 6moons. That doesn't excuse the across-the-board dismissal of anybody enjoying the sound of tubes. Could solid-state stuff be made to sound similar? Moot point, as nobody outside of First Watt is even attempting to do so. Is it OK for people to enjoy tubes? Not according to this shmuck.

Using education to try to make others feel dumb is irresponsible. No matter how condidered the opinion, the article DOES NOT ACCURATELY REPRESENT THE OTHER SIDE. By exaggerating the extremity of the opposing view, the author polarizes any conceivable argument.

And, good luck convincing anybody who's heard a cable make a difference that they didn't experience what they heard. It's akin to telling someone they didn't see the UFO or Bigfoot. They saw what they saw and that person heard something in the cable.

 

[Sleestack]

Is it OK for people to enjoy tubes? Not according to this shmuck.

Not according to a lot of members around here either. Many people around here seemed to have forgotten how to use their ears and seem to think that anyone who doesn't extoll the virtues of linearity are deluded and biased.

 

[miklorsmith]

A wise man

I read on another forum one time that the first golden rule of audio is "you don't know what you're missing". I spend my energies trying to find out what I might be missing instead of DISmissing every idea out-of-hand. As a result, my system kicks major tail. And, I say this as one who has sought out many, many different flavors. I assume Sleestack has done the same.

It's funny. All the theoretical arguments seem to side against the High End, where practical experience takes the opposite approach.

 

[furrycute]

It's akin to telling someone they didn't see the UFO or Bigfoot. They saw what they saw and that person heard something in the cable.

Greetings earthling, take me to your leader.

 

[jaxvon]

Yeah, the article does bash tube audio.

I personally have no problem with tubes. My only problem is when people try to claim that they're more accurate to the musical source than a well-made solid state amp. In that way, they usually don't compare. That said, saying that tubes sound better might be completely accurate...for you. As we all know (and as I have previously posted), audio is a personal endeavor that is all about self-satisfaction (no innuendo here...). If you like the way tubes sound, then more power to you. If your goal is to make your system sound good to your own ears, then go all out. If your goal is to make the most accurate system possible, then tubes aren't the way to go.

I honestly love tubes when it comes to studio electronics. They do wonders for microphones and bass guitars.

 

[miklorsmith]

Lots of tube stuff nowadays is very linear and quiet. My Modwright tube preamp is nearly silent to my 101 db speakers and is flat as a pancake. It does add a depth of perspective that I don't know how to quantify.

And, accuracy of any component (mostly speakers) is a function not only of frequency response, but amplitude, i.e. dynamics. If your "flat" speakers can't do lifelike dynamics (very few do), the "accuracy" of reproduction suffers tremendously.

 

[Pat D]

I'll take the bait in a very limited expansion of my original statement, having been called out as clueless. No, I have not followed this author any more than Mtry probably reads 6moons. That doesn't excuse the across-the-board dismissal of anybody enjoying the sound of tubes. Could solid-state stuff be made to sound similar? Moot point, as nobody outside of First Watt is even attempting to do so. Is it OK for people to enjoy tubes? Not according to this shmuck.

And, good luck convincing anybody who's heard a cable make a difference that they didn't experience what they heard. It's akin to telling someone they didn't see the UFO or Bigfoot. They saw what they saw and that person heard something in the cable.

You have to read what is said, not what you think is said. Aczel has nothing against you preferring tube equipment and enjoying it. Find where he says otherwise.

What he does object to are assertions that tubes are inherently better. We actually do have technical explanations as to why tube amps often sound different from accurate solid state amps. A higher output impedance is a major one as this will affect the frequency response into most speaker loads, and often this is large enough to be audible. Here's a link to an early article on the subject:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=651

Subsequently, a number of magazines have incorporated graphs of the frequency response of an amplifier into the NHT simulated speaker loads, and you can check them out on the Soundstage and Stereophile sites.

http://www.soundstageav.com/amplifiermeasurements.html

http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/

Cables sound different? Well, under what circumstances? You could take the trouble to read some of the technical articles on speaker cables on this site.

 

[miklorsmith]

There are no statements tubes are 'better'. This is part of the simplification I'm referring to. Re: cables, I'm referring to an audience, not necessarily myself, as I'm agnostic on this one.

 

[Pat D]

Yes, we have seen this before, but you cannot tease us like this.
You have to reveal that 'other' web site We have no secrets and won't reveal it to anyone else

I remember a discussion at Audio Asylum and I think it has been discussed at Audio Review.

I recently had a 'discussion' about audio DBTs at AA on Critics Asylum with "thetubeguy1954," who has taken a dislike to me. He called me a number of things , but provided no data or proof for his silliness. What a string of adjectivies! Oh well, if he wants to make himself look stupid, there's not much I can do about it. It seems subjectivists can get away with just about anything over there.

 

[Privateer]

How many people here have had a demo with tube amps? Hell most of the people on this site do not think that there is a difference between a reciever and a Mcintosh MC1201.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

How many people here have had a demo with tube amps? Hell most of the people on this site do not think that there is a difference between a reciever and a Mcintosh MC1201.

Demo? I'll have to post a picture of my Sears 70's tube amp sometime. It's as large as my desktop. Many don't know what a MC1201 is.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'll take the bait in a very limited expansion of my original statement, having been called out as clueless. No, I have not followed this author any more than Mtry probably reads 6moons. That doesn't excuse the across-the-board dismissal of anybody enjoying the sound of tubes.

Come on now. I don't read in his writing anywhere where he writes you cannot enjoy the tube sound. Nor from any of my post will you find such a statement. Enjoyment is not very testable.

Is it OK for people to enjoy tubes? Not according to this shmuck.

Don't think that is what he said anywhere.

Using education to try to make others feel dumb is irresponsible.

I doubt he has that vast of an education, certainly not a Phd. But, as many have suggested, he does have first hand experience that you can bank on, replicate for consistent results. It isn't pulled from thin air, but from bias controlled listening. After all, he was a 'golden ear' in the beginning. I bet not many know that.

No matter how condidered the opinion, the article DOES NOT ACCURATELY REPRESENT THE OTHER SIDE.


What other side? Only evidence based evaluations are relevant, one that can be replicated in a reliable manner, consistently.


And, good luck convincing anybody who's heard a cable make a difference that they didn't experience what they heard.


Yep, that is what happens with a belief system of any kind.

It's akin to telling someone they didn't see the UFO or Bigfoot.

Not quite. We can set up a listening session and demonstrate it to that believer.
On the other hand, hard to replicate a Big foot sighting, only evaluate the evidence and see if other explanations make sense or are valid.

They saw what they saw and that person heard something in the cable.

Yep, but only a closed mind will not entertain another explanation.
I see that stick or steel pipe bend in the bucket of water. What should I do?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Not according to a lot of members around here either.

Please show us one of those posts.

Many people around here seemed to have forgotten how to use their ears and seem to think that anyone who doesn't extoll the virtues of linearity are deluded and biased.

Oh, it is more than just using ears. Some/ many must use their eyes too, for they don't trust their ears alone.

But that has nothing to do with a preference or enjoyment.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I personally have no problem with tubes. My only problem is when people try to claim that they're more accurate to the musical source than a well-made solid state amp.

And that is what many forget here and confuse the issues of preferences and what can be tested to be fact based.


That said, saying that tubes sound better might be completely accurate...for you.


Yes, a singular reality that is worthless outside that universe.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Where have you been? Vacationing???
Good to see you posting again.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I remember a discussion at Audio Asylum and I think it has been discussed at Audio Review.

I recently had a 'discussion' about audio DBTs at AA on Critics Asylum with "thetubeguy1954," who has taken a dislike to me. He called me a number of things , but provided no data or proof for his silliness. What a string of adjectivies! Oh well, if he wants to make himself look stupid, there's not much I can do about it. It seems subjectivists can get away with just about anything over there.

You have got to learn what AA is It will not change. It's in the history books there

 

[Pat D]

How many people here have had a demo with tube amps? Hell most of the people on this site do not think that there is a difference between a reciever and a Mcintosh MC1201.

Oh I've hear tube amps from time to time. One dealer used to keep a pair of old McIntosh 27 watt monoblock tube amps around to play around with. He also carried Jolida for a while. The sound was nice enough but certainly no better than solid state.

What have you got against receivers? Many of them will outperform the vast majority of tube amps, hands down.

I even had the opportunity to hear my speakers with a C-J tube amp. This was because the store manager managed to short out the speaker wires and blew the fuse on a Cambridge Audio integrated amp. So for convenience, they hooked up the C-J which was right there in the rack. It was OK for my speakers, a little bland, but I was doing also a comparison with the Dali Helicon 400, which became quite colored with the C-J, adding a sort of preternatural brightness to a soprano and making the upper strings rather brightly lit. So, I made them hunt up another SS amp for me.

I audition speakers using acurate solid state amps, so the amp won't color the sound of the speakers. So why would I want to mess up their sound with tubes--or more accurately, with an amp with a high output impedance?

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=651

Oh, if you like tube amps, you will get no objection from me. Go ahead and like them. But my preference is for SS.