D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
But, has the topic kind of morphed into audible noise caused by amps? If so, would it make sense that one channel per speaker would solve this issue?
No.

The problem is that an amp amplifies everything in its input, as well as its generating own noise. So an amp with high gain is going to amplify any grunge in the input signal more than an amp with lower gain. [edit] (That's also why one generally wants higher signal levels, if possible; noise induced in the wires will be relatively constant, and thus there will be a lower ratio of it to signal if the signal level is higher.) [/edit] Add that to the amp's self-noise from the circuit and any mechanical noise (from humming transformers, etc.) and you have the three causes of amplifier noise.

If an amp has only one transformer does that eliminate Xtalk, or is the noise coming from somewhere else?
Any competent design will have inaudible crosstalk. (Many extreme "high end" designs are simply incompetent; one cannot generalize about them, because there are infinitely many ways to be incompetent!)

Consider that one common source of audible noise in amplifiers is transformer hum. Even some generally "good" amps, such as Sherbourns, more often than not have transformer hum. Transformer hum may not be an issue for people with degraded HF hearing acuity, mind.

For optimal performance, I think dedicated transformer for each channel is actually an inferior design choice to a big common supply.

Noise, discussed above, is the first reason.

The second reason is that when one considers the real power needs of music, one quickly realizes that peak demands are asymmetric: basically never will all channels be called upon to response to a large peak. So a PS that provides a large "common reservoir" is intuitively better-suited to the actual peak demands of real music than separate small transformers for each channel, where one channel cannot "borrow" from another.

Bob Carver was the first to market the idea of a PS that was big but perhaps less capable than all separate channels would need to simultaneously reproduce big peaks. And market it to the hilt he did. But the general annoyingness of Sideshow Bob aside, he was right.
 
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its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I just read this entire thread since I was bored at work. Wow.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I just read this entire thread since I was bored at work. Wow.
Are you going to the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas next weekend to check out some amps and speakers? :D

They will have some amps, preamps, Denon BD player.

Solid-state might also be there with his preamp and DAC.:eek: :D

AJ might let you take home his Soundfield monitors for a home audition.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I would like to, but my sisters and one brother in law are coming in this weekend, so I'll be busy :(

I can't afford to buy anything anyway so I'm better off not looking :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would like to, but my sisters and one brother in law are coming in this weekend, so I'll be busy :(

I can't afford to buy anything anyway so I'm better off not looking :D
Probably for the best.:D
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
I'm going to have to pickup an ATI AT2005 or 2 to run it though. Owhh well great excuse to finally pickup top tier amplification.

For a pre I'm considering AVR-4311 over the 7005 for XT32. What do you guys know about the single ended outs on the 4311? Decent enough?
I found this and thought it was pretty funny, what happened to that fancy DAC?
 
I

internova

Enthusiast
I know the seven channel one. But the Outlaw balanced 5 channel is only a few hundreds more. On ATI's website, all amps shared many similar characteristics. I have an opportunity to borrow a stereo amp first. :D

The AT1807 is available @ 50% off = $1395.

ATI AT1807 Seven Channel x 180 Watt Amplifier - B-Stock (120V) - Amplifiers

Grab it before it's gone too.:D

Will EE get more shipment in?

Also try onecall and other dealers and see if they will price-match EE @1299 delivered on the AVR-4311.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I know the seven channel one. But the Outlaw balanced 5 channel is only a few hundreds more. On ATI's website, all amps shared many similar characteristics. I have an opportunity to borrow a stereo amp first. :D
Yeah, the Outlaw 7500 (200wpc x 5ch) is $1600.

ATI 1807 (180wpc x 7ch) is $1400.

$200 difference for more power & fully balanced design.
 
96cobra10101

96cobra10101

Senior Audioholic
Can't say I didn't see that dude getting hit with stick. You must have really hit a nerve when you kicked him off his soapbox.
 
B

Bassfeen

Enthusiast
BTW guys don’t mean to hijack the thread was reading this due to the ATI2007 Title.


Just wanted some input on the ATI2007 & 3007. Im based in Indonesia. I am using JTR speakers for the time being but looking to upgrade to Danley Speakers for the Theatre setup and Buy the Philharmonics for my 2 Channels setup.

Anyways.......i need this shipped into Indonesia. its costing me 360 Dollars for the ATI 2007 and 460 dollars for the ATI3007

Just wanted some input on SQ difference between the both. And would the ATI2007 be enough or should i invest a little more and keep higher power ratings as reserve?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
BTW guys don’t mean to hijack the thread was reading this due to the ATI2007 Title.


Just wanted some input on the ATI2007 & 3007. Im based in Indonesia. I am using JTR speakers for the time being but looking to upgrade to Danley Speakers for the Theatre setup and Buy the Philharmonics for my 2 Channels setup.

Anyways.......i need this shipped into Indonesia. its costing me 360 Dollars for the ATI 2007 and 460 dollars for the ATI3007

Just wanted some input on SQ difference between the both. And would the ATI2007 be enough or should i invest a little more and keep higher power ratings as reserve?
I believe the AT2007 is plenty enough. They are very conservatively rated @ 0.05% THD. So @1% THD, they will crank out more than 300wpc of real continuous power.

My Philharmonic 3 speakers sounded great with just Denon 3310. I added AT2004 anyway. :D

BTW, an AVS member was at the ATI plant in California to pick up his AT2007. While he was there, they admitted to him that they are making amps for Lexicon, Outlaw, Cary Audio, Theta, B&K, and some other "theater amps".:D
 
B

Bassfeen

Enthusiast
I believe the AT2007 is plenty enough. They are very conservatively rated @ 0.05% THD. So @1% THD, they will crank out more than 300wpc of real continuous power.

My Philharmonic 3 speakers sounded great with just Denon 3310. I added AT2004 anyway. :D

BTW, an AVS member was at the ATI plant in California to pick up his AT2007. While he was there, they admitted to him that they are making amps for Lexicon, Outlaw, Cary Audio, Theta, B&K, and some other "theater amps".:D


Did you hear any diffrence in using diffrent amps on the phils 3?
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Did you hear any diffrence in using diffrent amps on the phils 3?
ADTG listens to all his speakers in a walk in closet. I think 20 watts would be enough for him. And he's sane (or close to it), so he wouldn't hear SQ differences.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Did you hear any diffrence in using diffrent amps on the phils 3?
No. I did not hear any difference whatsoever between using just the Denon 3310 vs the AT2004.

Peter Aczel, Siegfried Linkwitz, and a lot of other audiophiles wouldn't be able to tell the difference. So I'm not too surprise I can't either. :D
 
C

Corso III

Audiophyte
I believe the AT2007 is plenty enough. They are very conservatively rated @ 0.05% THD. So @1% THD, they will crank out more than 300wpc of real continuous power.

My Philharmonic 3 speakers sounded great with just Denon 3310. I added AT2004 anyway. :D

BTW, an AVS member was at the ATI plant in California to pick up his AT2007. While he was there, they admitted to him that they are making amps for Lexicon, Outlaw, Cary Audio, Theta, B&K, and some other "theater amps".:D
I picked up a 2005 from ATI this morning and saw several of the above makes (Lexicon, Outlaw, Theta) on their benches in the back room. Jeff and John were very helpful.
 
strube

strube

Audioholic Field Marshall
I don't know how I ended up coming here during my work boredom, but 1 hour later, I feel slightly more confused about certain elements of humanity than I did before. :confused:

It was still a good time though. :D
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
I picked up a 2005 from ATI this morning and saw several of the above makes (Lexicon, Outlaw, Theta) on their benches in the back room. Jeff and John were very helpful.
ATI bought Theta a while back. And I think B&K, too.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
ATI bought Theta a while back. And I think B&K, too.
I always wondered why ATI, Parasound, etc, don't make amps with 1000wpc 8ohm/ 2000wpc 4ohm output like the pro amps.

Why is that?
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
I always wondered why ATI, Parasound, etc, don't make amps with 1000wpc 8ohm/ 2000wpc 4ohm output like the pro amps.

Why is that?
Because they all use fairly simple circuits for both power supply and output stages that are decades old, and haven't seen the need/desire to innovate from there. Their old circuits tend to be sonically transparent and reliable, and for home listening one typically doesn't need all that power. But they're not terribly efficient. So the limits of the wall and the amps' thermal management (all passive cooling) limit the ultimate output. (Look at the sheer bulk, for instance of McIntosh's 1kW monoblocs.)

Pro amps are a bigger market, so there's a lot more competition and innovation. All of the big amps have long had Class G/H designs, whereas few home amps do. Also, fans make thermal management a much less daunting task.

That said, a few "high end" companies seem to be moving into the 21st century. ATI is or will be introducing with a (frightfully expensive) Theta monobloc using a Hypex amp module. But they're still conservative enough to stick with an old-fashioned power supply rather than Hypex's modern switch-mode unit. Much the same story with the newish Levinson amp, a 500W Class D monobloc that weighs about as much as a Revel Salon2. The only really modern amp available from a "high end" firm seems to be the Anthem Statement M1.
 
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