ascend acoustics feedback

[clarence2society]

Ah when i spoke to dina she said all their speakers are timbre matched. Im nout to look up those rears kew mentioned also

 

[clarence2society]

Kew those are nice little speakers. Ive seen some ppl praise jbl full systems also. Thats cheaper by like 220 bucks poop. Plus less shipping. Hell yeah

 

[sholling]

Ah when i spoke to dina she said all their speakers are timbre matched. Im nout to look up those rears kew mentioned also

When watching TV or a movie or a music video the source of the vast majority of the sound is both spread across the front three and constantly moving from one main to the center and back to one of the mains. Those transitions need to be as seamless as possible and any mismatch can be glaringly obvious to the listener.

Surround speakers primarily deal with ambient sounds and when dealing with ambient sounds close is usually good enough. Yes it's possible to have such a glaring mismatch that you'll notice in a few movies but it's unlikely with somewhat similar sounding speakers. On the other hand 5.1 music with a lot of surround effects and transitions like the 5.1 versions of 'Dark Side of the Moon' or 'Wish You Were Here' can expose bad mismatches - but realistically how often will you critically listen to those DVDs or DVD rips? Probably not very often. For me it's 2-3 times a year at most.

 

[clarence2society]

That's really funny you say that because we're driving across the state to Estero to go see Brit Floyd live Saturday night for the third year in a row they are freaking amazing

 

[j_garcia]

Only thing I'd say would best the Ascends on the inexpensive end would be the Philharmonic AAs. I do really like the CMT340se and CBM170se though. The AAs are less expensive and I'd say they actually sound better. Size-wise, they're much larger than the 170s, but much smaller than the 340s.

 

[KEW]

Kew those are nice little speakers. Ive seen some ppl praise jbl full systems also. Thats cheaper by like 220 bucks poop. Plus less shipping. Hell yeah

I'm a big fan of ID speakers...but when JBL is available at a 60% discount and they happen to fit your needs, that becomes a game changer!

Only thing I'd say would best the Ascends on the inexpensive end would be the Philharmonic AAs. I do really like the CMT340se and CBM170se though. The AAs are less expensive and I'd say they actually sound better. Size-wise, they're much larger than the 170s, but much smaller than the 340s.

I agree with this. I also compared the AA's against the 340's and preferred the sound of the AA's. The 340 should get louder, but the AA's are no slouch. I didn't mention this because you seemed pretty set on the Ascends (or Hsu) and I do consider them good options.

However, I personally would take it up a notch! Given the money you will save on the surrounds/brackets, I would suggest you skip the center and get a pair of SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speakers. They sell for $1000/pr, but if you check the link below periodically for B-stock, you can save some money (read where they describe the blemishes - some are open box with no damage and others open box with some sort of damage to the finish). Right now they have one with no damage for $450 and another for $400 with a crack in the bottom surface - that is a great deal! Don't worry, SVS is careful to make sure there is no structural damage and is is typical for people to buy their B-stock and not be able to find the blemish they describe unless you take it into the sunlight!

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/type_speakers

https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/svs-ultra-bookshelf-speakers

My reasoning is simple:
1) 45 day no-risk trial is assurance if you don't like the sound (I can tell you they are excellent speakers for the money, but cannot know you like the same sound character as I do).
2) These are SVS's flagship bookshelf - often companies use their top of the line products to make a statement about their capabilities, and they put extra emphasis on making sure they do not disappoint! These don't! I have not heard any of SVS's lesser speakers, but know people who were not too impressed with the Primes, yet considered the Ultras truly great speakers!
3) I have heard these speakers and to my ear, they do everything very, very well. Another way to put this is: these are speakers that I cannot find fault with! I have better speakers and I know that from listening to them side by side with instant level matched switching, but if I leave the room for 15 minutes and just listen to these by themselves, they do no wrong! In my book that makes them true high fidelity speakers. If I listen to the 340, I will notice that the highs are not as crisp and transparent as they should be (can be heard with the brass of the metal strings in the intro to Hotel California from the Eagle's "Hell Freezes Over" album as a commonly available example).
4) I always advise getting two great speakers over three good speakers across the front. Your AVR will automatically configure for a "phantom center" when you run the setup. You can try it out as part of the 45 day trial, but with great speakers, I think you will be very content with the sound. Should you decide later to add a center, I would suggest simply adding another Ultra bookshelf instead of the Ultra center. The center is very expensive ($700) and will not match the timbre as well as another bookshelf. The only reason they make the center is for a low profile (8.2" high instead of 15") which allows you to squeeze it under your TV. It just depends on your furniture and whether you can fit the extra 6.8" to save $200!

All of that said, I don't remember - is this primarily for HT or music? Did you give us a %Music/%HT/%Gaming breakdown on your listening habits?

 

[snakeeyes]

I'm a big fan of ID speakers...but when JBL is available at a 60% discount and they happen to fit your needs, that becomes a game changer!


I agree with this. I also compared the AA's against the 340's and preferred the sound of the AA's. The 340 should get louder, but the AA's are no slouch. I didn't mention this because you seemed pretty set on the Ascends (or Hsu) and I do consider them good options.

However, I personally would take it up a notch! Given the money you will save on the surrounds/brackets, I would suggest you skip the center and get a pair of SVS Ultra Bookshelf Speakers. They sell for $1000/pr, but if you check the link below periodically for B-stock, you can save some money (read where they describe the blemishes - some are open box with no damage and others open box with some sort of damage to the finish). Right now they have one with no damage for $450 and another for $400 with a crack in the bottom surface - that is a great deal! Don't worry, SVS is careful to make sure there is no structural damage and is is typical for people to buy their B-stock and not be able to find the blemish they describe unless you take it into the sunlight!

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/type_speakers

https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/svs-ultra-bookshelf-speakers

My reasoning is simple:
1) 45 day no-risk trial is assurance if you don't like the sound (I can tell you they are excellent speakers for the money, but cannot know you like the same sound character as I do).
2) These are SVS's flagship bookshelf - often companies use their top of the line products to make a statement about their capabilities, and they put extra emphasis on making sure they do not disappoint! These don't! I have not heard any of SVS's lesser speakers, but know people who were not too impressed with the Primes, yet considered the Ultras truly great speakers!
3) I have heard these speakers and to my ear, they do everything very, very well. Another way to put this is: these are speakers that I cannot find fault with! I have better speakers and I know that from listening to them side by side with instant level matched switching, but if I leave the room for 15 minutes and just listen to these by themselves, they do no wrong! In my book that makes them true high fidelity speakers. If I listen to the 340, I will notice that the highs are not as crisp and transparent as they should be (can be heard with the brass of the metal strings in the intro to Hotel California from the Eagle's "Hell Freezes Over" album as a commonly available example).
4) I always advise getting two great speakers over three good speakers across the front. Your AVR will automatically configure for a "phantom center" when you run the setup. You can try it out as part of the 45 day trial, but with great speakers, I think you will be very content with the sound. Should you decide later to add a center, I would suggest simply adding another Ultra bookshelf instead of the Ultra center. The center is very expensive ($700) and will not match the timbre as well as another bookshelf. The only reason they make the center is for a low profile (8.2" high instead of 15") which allows you to squeeze it under your TV. It just depends on your furniture and whether you can fit the extra 6.8" to save $200!

All of that said, I don't remember - is this primarily for HT or music? Did you give us a %Music/%HT/%Gaming breakdown on your listening habits?

There are also Canton speakers on sale at A4L. Maybe Kew would recommend those?

 

[clarence2society]

I just found a guy in miami with 340 mains and pedestals for 300 a yr old. Right by me.. Warranty transfer possible. Another 250 saved or so.

Also phantom center is a new one i havent heard yet... Ill be 70 percenr ht gaming and 30 percent music i think

 

[KEW]

There are also Canton speakers on sale at A4L. Maybe Kew would recommend those?

I certainly like them; however, I feel much more confident recommending the SVS since they have the 45 day no-risk policy.
I have not heard the Cantons at the same time as the Ultras to compare directly, but these two speakers impress me as being close in the level of sound quality, and have much of the same character. I feel fairly confident that the Canton have a better tweeter (as it compared favorably to some of the best speakers I A-B'ed) and the SVS have better bass (with the larger cabinet)!
These are the ones I am talking about, they are $810 (10% discount will show when you place in cart). One reason that I can think of to consider the Cantons: They are more compact at 11.8" instead of 15" tall. I would consider the 45 day return

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cantvento8202blka/canton-vento-820.2-2-way-6in-bookshelf-speaker-black-gloss-pair/1.html

I should say I got mine during the black Friday sale period for $650/pr and I would definitely be pushing them if they were still that price!

 

[snakeeyes]

I certainly like them; however, I feel much more confident recommending the SVS since they have the 45 day no-risk policy.
I have not heard the Cantons at the same time as the Ultras to compare directly, but these two speakers impress me as being close in the level of sound quality, and have much of the same character. I feel fairly confident that the Canton have a better tweeter (as it compared favorably to some of the best speakers I A-B'ed) and the SVS have better bass (with the larger cabinet)!
These are the ones I am talking about, they are $810 (10% discount will show when you place in cart). One reason that I can think of to consider the Cantons: They are more compact at 11.8" instead of 15" tall. I would consider the 45 day return

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cantvento8202blka/canton-vento-820.2-2-way-6in-bookshelf-speaker-black-gloss-pair/1.html

I should say I got mine during the black Friday sale period for $650/pr and I would definitely be pushing them if they were still that price!

I could wait for Black Friday for that price. . Does Revel ever go on sale anywhere? Also do you recommend 3 bookshelves or a dedicated center? Sorry to hijack the thread...

 

[clarence2society]

guilty of it all the time snake....

so kew im gonna get these yr old340se form dude by me with stands for 300

with 4 yr warranty left i just talked to dina all is good.
then ill grab center and jbls for surrounds... 400 w shipping and im set for now.
cant pass up an op like that. so lookin at....
700 total plus sub 1300... KILLER!

 

[KEW]

guilty of it all the time snake....

so kew im gonna get these yr old340se form dude by me with stands for 300

with 4 yr warranty left i just talked to dina all is good.
then ill grab center and jbls for surrounds... 400 w shipping and im set for now.
cant pass up an op like that. so lookin at....
700 total plus sub 1300... KILLER!

Way to keep your eyes open!
$300 for 340's with stands is hard to argue with, and I assume you get to hear them before you commit, which is a plus!

 

[KEW]

I could wait for Black Friday for that price. . Does Revel ever go on sale anywhere? Also do you recommend 3 bookshelves or a dedicated center? Sorry to hijack the thread...

Generally, I would recommend a bookshelf instead of a center, as long as you can fit it!
Obviously, it will be a perfect match assuming you have the same bookshelf speakers for L & R! But even if you don't I would generally recommend it over a typical center.
The bottom line is the design of the center is usually compromised to get the height as low as possible. The compromise is not horrific, but given a center usually cost a lot more than a single bookshelf, it does not make sense unless you need the low height. Unfortunately, some companies (including Canton) only sell the bookshelves in pairs.
In a case like the Canton Vento, the height of only 12" plays to your favor!

I'm not sure that particular deal will be repeated.
The Canton Vento 820.2 which I have seems to have been discontinued. I believe the replacement is the Canton Vento 826:
https://www.canton.us/hifi/vento-series/vento-826

 

[snakeeyes]

Generally, I would recommend a bookshelf instead of a center, as long as you can fit it!
Obviously, it will be a perfect match assuming you have the same bookshelf speakers for L & R! But even if you don't I would generally recommend it over a typical center.
The bottom line is the design of the center is usually compromised to get the height as low as possible. The compromise is not horrific, but given a center usually cost a lot more than a single bookshelf, it does not make sense unless you need the low height. Unfortunately, some companies (including Canton) only sell the bookshelves in pairs.
In a case like the Canton Vento, the height of only 12" plays to your favor!

I'm not sure that particular deal will be repeated.
The Canton Vento 820.2 which I have seems to have been discontinued. I believe the replacement is the Canton Vento 826:
https://www.canton.us/hifi/vento-series/vento-826

The Revel M16 is sold in singles. 3 of those or a M16 with a pair of F36 or F35 is a good idea? The C25 would fit in my console but costs more than a M16. Wonder if placing horizontal also kills the sound? Or if inside a cabinet also would hurt the sound? Or placing on a short stand near the floor and angling up a bit is bad? Sorry lots of questions...

 

[KEW]

The Revel M16 is sold in singles. 3 of those or a M16 with a pair of F36 or F35 is a good idea? The C25 would fit in my console but costs more than a M16. Wonder if placing horizontal also kills the sound? Or if inside a cabinet also would hurt the sound? Or placing on a short stand near the floor and angling up a bit is bad? Sorry lots of questions...

You know, I have never heard a Revel speaker!
Their (and Harman lab's) reputation certainly suggest a great product.
But yes, I would go with 3 M16 or a M16 with a pair of F36 or F35 instead of paying for a center.
Inside a cabinet can be a problem if the speaker is rear ported and there is not much room to breathe. You will notice that the M16 has a rear port while the C25 is sealed so as to allow use in a cabinet. That can be another advantage for centers - some are sealed or have front ports to allow placement in a closed cabinet, while their bookshelf or tower counter-part is more often rear ported.
Placing on a short stand and angling up would work fine for me. I guess the answer depends on you! Generally your ears will detect that the sound is coming from near the floor. Some people demand the sound come from the vertical (as well as horizontal) center of the screen, some are willing to accept it as long as it is immediately adjacent to the bottom or top of the screen.
If I looked for it or obsessed over it, I would have an issue with a friends set up where the speakers are at least 2 feet above the top of the TV. However, I find that in practice when I am watching a show, I pay attention to the show and find my mind places the sound where it visually comes from (such as a person's mouth) on the screen instead of where the speakers are!
Here is a great example of how our vision can over-rule our hearing:

 

[sholling]

Generally, I would recommend a bookshelf instead of a center, as long as you can fit it!

I agree with this for most speakers just not with the 340s should the OP go that route. The matching center for them is a 340 laid on its side and with the tweeter rotated 90 degrees for horizontal play. They do the same for the S1 center.

 

[KEW]

I agree with this for most speakers just not with the 340s should the OP go that route. The matching center for them is a 340 laid on its side and with the tweeter rotated 90 degrees for horizontal play. They do the same for the S1 center.

Thanks!
I did not realize he tweeter for the 340 had different characteristics for horizontal vs vertical positioning!

 

[snakeeyes]

You know, I have never heard a Revel speaker!
Their (and Harman lab's) reputation certainly suggest a great product.
But yes, I would go with 3 M16 or a M16 with a pair of F36 or F35 instead of paying for a center.
Inside a cabinet can be a problem if the speaker is rear ported and there is not much room to breathe. You will notice that the M16 has a rear port while the C25 is sealed so as to allow use in a cabinet. That is another advantage for (some) centers - they can be sealed or have front ports to allow placement in a closed cabinet, while their bookshelf or tower counter-part is more often rear ported.
Placing on a short stand and angling up would work fine for me. I guess the answer depends on you! Generally your ears will detect that the sound is coming from near the floor. Some people demand the sound come from the vertical (as well as horizontal) center of the screen, some are willing to accept it as long as it is immediately adjacent to the bottom or top of the screen.
If I looked for it or obsessed over it, I would have an issue with a friends set up where the speakers are at least 2 feet above the top of the TV. However, I find that in practice when I am watching a show, I pay attention to the show and find my mind places the sound where it visually comes from (such as the speaker's mouth) on the screen instead of where the speakers are!
Here is a great example of how our vision can deceive our hearing:

My Yamaha 2060 has a dialog lift feature that uses the front LR (or heights) to lift the center so it seems like the sound is level with the LR. This does a pretty good job fooling me at least. The Phils and Ascend bookshelf’s assuming a single can be purchased, are also high on my list.

 

[KEW]

My Yamaha 2060 has a dialog lift feature that uses the front LR (or heights) to lift the center so it seems like the sound is level with the LR. This does a pretty good job fooling me at least. The Phils and Ascend bookshelf’s assuming a single can be purchased, are also high on my list.

Ha! That is a neat trick! I wonder if Denon actually missed that (AVR companies seem pretty obsessive about making sure they match every one of each others features)! It wouldn't surprise me if it was an item on a menu which I never investigated!

 

[snakeeyes]

Ha! That is a neat trick! I wonder if Denon actually missed that (AVR companies seem pretty obsessive about making sure they match every one of each others features)! It wouldn't surprise me if it was an item on a menu which I never investigated!

Well Gene’s YouTube review on 5100 setup said it was the heights that lift dialog but you can use the mains if you don’t have heights. I posted that on the discussion thread of the 5100.
I read a bit on center channel lobbing and didn’t see mention of what happens if a 2 way bookshelf is on its side. Any thoughts?
I know Ascend (Phils, Dennis also told me he could do this also) can sell a bookshelf and rotate the RAAL tweeter for horizontal placement. (Possibly not a good idea with rear ported but ok sealed or front ported?)