Are These Finds Good Deals?

[Kleinst]

Does look DIY but you need to know what drivers are in there to know the value. They don't look particularly special. Compare that to these Selah Audio Vigores. Very good speakers and looks like he did a really nice job on the cabs as well.

Yeah that's the dilemma. Someone is selling them for his dad whose friend made them for him. Cheap but they don't know what they have. probably won't make an offer but they looked interesting

 

[Kleinst]

Haha .... Looked at the history. Previous owner sold them last January asking $3300. Stated the retail price at $6895. Not sure where this guy got the $8000 from. Still, $3250 is reasonable for their condition. Ad says that he likes them so much that he wants to move up to platinums . Just outside of Montreal so about 7 hrs away by car.

It's funny, I've found stuff that is 3-4 hours away which is a full ass day round trip. Needs to be something pretty special for you to go 14 hours round trip. But I guess that could be part of the fun.

 

[zieglj01]

So what do you think these are? It say Custom Speakers on the Ad but nothing else. No grills. Look kind of interesting? Or Trash ? Looks like there are holes for grills. Not sure if that is easy to DIY?

They look to have low quality drivers ... and have sort of an overall cheap look ... one would have to really listen to them, because the crossover work may also be limited.

 

[Eppie]

Rick's stuff was pretty legit.
The monitor I found had SB/Satori and Scan Speak Drivers, but that tweeter doesn't look like the Be Tweet. The mid looks correct (Satori). Cannot visually identify the Woofers.

From the ad:
"This is a 3 way floors standing speaker designed by the late Rick Craig of Selah Audio. The tweeter is a Beryllium 29mm tweeter with a Satori 5 inch papyrus/neodymium midrange driver. The woofers are 8 inch SB acoustics high excursion subwoofers. I'm selling because they don't have a grill and my toddler is drawn to them... "

They are probably worth what he is asking but DIY is a tough sell in that price range.

 

[Eppie]

Less than half price still. Of all speaker brands I've always had admiration for Monitor Audio and their Silver series and up. I know those Golds are excellent speakers man. A 7 hour drive? I might do it... I just might. As long as the seller reassured me they're in good looking and working condition I just might plan the drive...

I'm gonna back away slowly now and stop influencing you...

Did a little digging and found a new pair of B stock Gold 200 5G for $4500 that are only 2 hours away. It's a dealer that regularly sells demos and B stock. One speaker is mint, the other has a blemish in the top corner that was repaired. Retail is C$7500 (US$6250) also in the premium ebony finish. The other Gold 200 4G were used as demo units and are supposed to have not too many hours on them. A little swirl in the finish on the tops.

So, 4G with 5.5" woofers and ribbon tweeter for $3250 or 5G new with warranty with 6.5" woofers and MPD (micro pleated diaphragm) tweeter for $4500 + tax? The mid-tweet crossover on the 4G is 2500Hz while the 5G has them crossed at 3500Hz and I recall that the Doc said that the higher crossover point is preferred as it gets out of the vocal band. There is 13% tax on the 5G though, so $5085 which becomes substantially more than the 4G at $3250.

 

[ryanosaur]

@Pogre So a little more digging and I found a

From the ad:
"This is a 3 way floors standing speaker designed by the late Rick Craig of Selah Audio. The tweeter is a Beryllium 29mm tweeter with a Satori 5 inch papyrus/neodymium midrange driver. The woofers are 8 inch SB acoustics high excursion subwoofers. I'm selling because they don't have a grill and my toddler is drawn to them... "

They are probably worth what he is asking but DIY is a tough sell in that price range.

With Selah, Rick would do all the work except for the cabinet, usually, which you could order from him as well. That's an interesting combo using the 8" SB Sub Drivers.

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Sub Woofer

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Polypropylene Cone Sub Woofer - 8 ohm Spec sheet: SB23MFCL45-8 Long stroke design Linear high stability suspension Low damping rubber surround Long copper voice coil Non-conducting reinforced fibre glass coil former Very stiff mineral filled Polypropylene cone...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Not quite as linear down low as I would like to see with that ~6dB dip just below 50Hz. Not a bad driver otherwise.

I looked briefly at his Illuminoso Kit back in 2018/2019... all SB drivers, possibly all Satori, Be Tweets, 9.5" Woofers, possibly the same mids as these... He would send the Drivers, the XOs, the plans for the cabinet and all the associated components (binding posts, hook up wire, etc). Pretty tempting way to get a premium Speaker that was almost full range on its own.
I heard one of his designs at the California Audio Show that same year, the Cali-4, a mini 4-way tower. Flippin nice work.

 

[Eppie]

With Selah, Rick would do all the work except for the cabinet, usually, which you could order from him as well. That's an interesting combo using the 8" SB Sub Drivers.

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Sub Woofer

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Polypropylene Cone Sub Woofer - 8 ohm Spec sheet: SB23MFCL45-8 Long stroke design Linear high stability suspension Low damping rubber surround Long copper voice coil Non-conducting reinforced fibre glass coil former Very stiff mineral filled Polypropylene cone...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Not quite as linear down low as I would like to see with that ~6dB dip just below 50Hz. Not a bad driver otherwise.

I looked briefly at his Illuminoso Kit back in 2018/2019... all SB drivers, possibly all Satori, Be Tweets, 9.5" Woofers, possibly the same mids as these... He would send the Drivers, the XOs, the plans for the cabinet and all the associated components (binding posts, hook up wire, etc). Pretty tempting way to get a premium Speaker that was almost full range on its own.
I heard one of his designs at the California Audio Show that same year, the Cali-4, a mini 4-way tower. Flippin nice work.

I looked at the Illuminoso last time you mentioned them. Very impressive kit. The cost of the drivers put it at the upper end of kit builds but one hell of a speaker with a unique look.

Rick built the crossovers for these Vigores and the seller built the cabinets to their specs:
Sensitivity 86.5dB /2.83v / 1M
38hz-20K (+2/3dB) response
-10dB @24hz bass extension
6 ohms / nominal impedance
4.6 ohms / minimum.

It's a kit I would consider if I was looking to build towers.

 

[ryanosaur]

I looked at the Illuminoso last time you mentioned them. Very impressive kit. The cost of the drivers put it at the upper end of kit builds but one hell of a speaker with a unique look.

Rick built the crossovers for these Vigores and the seller built the cabinets to their specs:
Sensitivity 86.5dB /2.83v / 1M
38hz-20K (+2/3dB) response
-10dB @24hz bass extension
6 ohms / nominal impedance
4.6 ohms / minimum.

It's a kit I would consider if I was looking to build towers.

I do agree that selling finished kits is somewhat questionable, in general. Less so than a complete DIY design however, especially if there is a pedigree that can be traced as is the case here. Knowing Rick built the XOs and shipped them complete to the owner is, imo, a good selling point.
Being able to build a cabinet properly is still a pretty big variable.

It's probably a pretty good deal, though I would say 1850-2000 is more reasonable. But hey, they aren't mine.

 

[Kleinst]

What about these bad boys? 4622N Damn would these be ugly. But they look like they could make some noise.

 

[Eppie]

What about these bad boys? 4622N Damn would these be ugly. But they look like they could make some noise.

View attachment 54652

 

[Verdinut]

With Selah, Rick would do all the work except for the cabinet, usually, which you could order from him as well. That's an interesting combo using the 8" SB Sub Drivers.

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Sub Woofer

SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-8, 8" Polypropylene Cone Sub Woofer - 8 ohm Spec sheet: SB23MFCL45-8 Long stroke design Linear high stability suspension Low damping rubber surround Long copper voice coil Non-conducting reinforced fibre glass coil former Very stiff mineral filled Polypropylene cone...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Not quite as linear down low as I would like to see with that ~6dB dip just below 50Hz. Not a bad driver otherwise.

That SB driver will reach an F3 at 30 Hz in a ported cabinet, not -6 dB at just below 50 Hz.

In my book however, if a driver doesn't dig below 30 Hz at -3 dB, it's a simple woofer not a sub.

 

[ryanosaur]

That SB sub driver will reach an F3 at 30 Hz in a ported cabinet, not -6 dB at just below 50 Hz.

In my book however, if a driver doesn't dig below 30 Hz at -3 dB, it's a simple woofer not a sub.

I was commenting on the supplied FR chart with its big dip in the response, not driver or speaker rolloff.

 

[Verdinut]

I was commenting on the supplied FR chart with its big dip in the response, not driver or speaker rolloff.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I agree with you that there are drivers with a more linear LF response. But the shown response was actually taken using an IEC baffle,
which is basically just a massive wall which separates back and front side of the speaker. The IEC-baffle is defined in a size that allows thinking of it as being infinitely large. This assumption allows viewing the two sides of the membrane (front and back) as acoustically completely separated.

Here is also the response with the IEC baffle, of the 5 inch SB15MFC30-8 which I use for the surround speakers in my HT. It also has big dip at 50 Hz but used for frequencies above 90 Hz up to 1900 Hz crossover frequency, it has a smooth response. It also makes an excellent mid-range driver for a 3-way speaker:

 

[ryanosaur]

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I agree with you that there are drivers with a more linear LF response. But the shown response was actually taken using an IEC baffle,
which is basically just a massive wall which separates back and front side of the speaker. The IEC-baffle is defined in a size that allows thinking of it as being infinitely large. This assumption allows viewing the two sides of the membrane (front and back) as acoustically completely separated.

Here is also the response with the IEC baffle, of the 5 inch SB15MFC30-8 which I use for the surround speakers in my HT. It also has big dip at 50 Hz but used for frequencies above 90 Hz up to 1900 Hz crossover frequency, it has a smooth response. It also makes an excellent mid-range driver for a 3-way speaker:
View attachment 54657

Is that a characteristic of measuring drivers on infinite baffle rigs?

 

[Verdinut]

Is that a characteristic of measuring drivers on infinite baffle rigs?

I don't think so. The expression "Infinite Baffle" was often used for sealed cabinets, but was originally intended for the use of very large panels to isolate the back wave of the driver from its front wave in order to prevent cancellation of the reproduced sound at low frequencies.

 

[ryanosaur]

I don't think so. The expression "Infinite Baffle" was often used for sealed cabinets, but was originally intended for the use of very large panels to isolate the back wave of the driver from its front wave in order to prevent cancellation of the reproduced sound and obtain a certain low frequency output.

I ask largely because I had seen references to driver testing rigs using either large walls or freestanding panels to get good measurements for modeling purposes.
I think John k (Zaph) had a 10x10’ foladable panel with interchangeable driver mounts to test, for example.

 

[fmw]

I wouldn't bother with them unless the performance is verified somewhere. Just because something is pricey does not mean its good, and this is even more true in the audio world.

For sure. Price is not good indication of either quality or performance in the audio industry.

 

[Eppie]

Better not show this Onkyo Integra to @}Fear_Inoculum{; he might want to add it to the growing amp collection.
C$1400 for 9x150W into 8 ohms (185W into 6 ohms, 400W peak into 3 ohms).

 

[Kleinst]

Better not show this Onkyo Integra to @}Fear_Inoculum{; he might want to add it to the growing amp collection.
C$1400 for 9x150W into 8 ohms (185W into 6 ohms, 400W peak into 3 ohms).
View attachment 54835
View attachment 54837

For these, sometimes I think the measurements are not all channels driven. I wonder for these and the Marantz amps, other than the appearance, why for this price someone wouldn't just get an ATI built Monolith 7x or comparable which are 200WPC?

But they do look good

 

[Eppie]

For these, sometimes I think the measurements are not all channels driven. I wonder for these and the Marantz amps, other than the appearance, why for this price someone wouldn't just get an ATI built Monolith 7x or comparable which are 200WPC?

But they do look good

The manual is pretty good for this model. Power specs are with 2 channels driven and it gives other power specs at different distortion levels and impedances. I think the price is little high given the retail value.