Anybody have experience with the Monoprice M-12s Sealed Sub?

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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
Myth. Listen to Mr Mullen

I am looking at a smaller room and it seems he leans towards a sealed being more musical. Transient response, tightness and other characteristics are mentioned. They say a sealed is a no comprise for a smaller room.
 
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mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
You must have watched a different video then me. Or my comprehension is poor. I should have sat in front of the class room instead of the back
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I am looking at a smaller room and it seems he leans towards a sealed being more musical. Transient response, tightness and characteristics others are mentioned. They say a sealed is a no comprise for a smaller room.
All marketing hype. Sealed is for when you need a smaller subwoofer, period. That is essentially its only advantage. If you want to talk about time-domain behavior, look at group delay measurements.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
You believe what you want to believe
You see you don't have to live like a refugee

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
SVS did feed into it a bit but personally I hate the term musicality for all kinda of audio gear description....
 
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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
All marketing hype. Sealed is for when you need a smaller subwoofer, period. That is essentially its only advantage. If you want to talk about time-domain behavior, look at group delay measurements.
Alright- measuring things is good and valid. But is it easier and more economical to design a sealed sub with better transient response and other characteristics than a ported model?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Alright- measuring things is good and valid. But is it easier and more economical to design a sealed sub with better transient response and other characteristics than a ported model?
You can design a sealed sub with lower group delay than ported subs, but you need a really good driver that you don't have to worry about running without a filter. That will get you maximally low group delay. The thing is, it only really reduces group delay in very low frequencies, a region where human hearing isn't very good at discerning time-domain differences in sound to begin with. It doesn't do anything to help music band frequencies, stuff above 40Hz. This is why much of the arguments about the 'quickness' of any certain sub type can often be nonsense, pure imagination like audiophile power cables. If you want 'fast' bass, make sure that the main speakers are time-aligned with the sub, since many subwoofer DSPs can add a lag. Also make sure that there is no big peaks in the bass response, since bass is a minimum phase system in room, therefore the frequency domain is directly correlated to the time domain.
 
H

Hotwater84

Enthusiast
You can design a sealed sub with lower group delay than ported subs, but you need a really good driver that you don't have to worry about running without a filter. That will get you maximally low group delay. The thing is, it only really reduces group delay in very low frequencies, a region where human hearing isn't very good at discerning time-domain differences in sound to begin with. It doesn't do anything to help music band frequencies, stuff above 40Hz. This is why much of the arguments about the 'quickness' of any certain sub type can often be nonsense, pure imagination like audiophile power cables. If you want 'fast' bass, make sure that the main speakers are time-aligned with the sub, since many subwoofer DSPs can add a lag. Also make sure that there is no big peaks in the bass response, since bass is a minimum phase system in room, therefore the frequency domain is directly correlated to the time domain.

Pardon my jumping in here, I’m a total noob but how do you go about making sure your mains are time aligned with the sub? And to know if you have big peaks in the bass response? I’m designing my first quality system and just trying to gain as much knowledge about all this stuff as possible so I’m better prepared to tune it all right.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
The Denon AVR your looking at has a feature called Audyssey Its a tool to calibrate your system


And your question goes outside the Brackets LOL
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Pardon my jumping in here, I’m a total noob but how do you go about making sure your mains are time aligned with the sub? And to know if you have big peaks in the bass response? I’m designing my first quality system and just trying to gain as much knowledge about all this stuff as possible so I’m better prepared to tune it all right.
You have to measure your response to see what the difference in sub timing and main speaker timing really is. A wavelet graph is very handy for this. You also have to measure to see the frequency response. This can all be done with a UMIK microphone and an install of REW. You can also just rely on whatever calibration software is onboard your AVR, like Audyssey or YPAO. Those types of calibration routines are usually pretty good at establishing distance differences, so the delays it generates should be good for your system. They can do OK at equalizing the response as well, but they can also degrade the sound quality in other respects. Personally, I like to do all that stuff manually.
 
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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
You must have watched a different video then me. Or my comprehension is poor. I should have sat in front of the class room instead of the back
I am really surprised at your choice of a video to make your point. I had a few minutes today to rewatch it before my wife got up and I made notes about the the following:

At 53 seconds Ed talks about sealed having good detail, articulation, tightness and transient response.

At 1:06 he puts up the slide about transient response.

At 1:20 Nick talks about a sub with poor transient response might blur some of the notes.

At 1:28 Ed slays a properly designed sealed subwoofer can sort of stop on a dime.

At 1:49 Ed says a sealed subwoofer can provide you with a no compromise listening experience even on home theater provided the room size and volume level are consistent with then output capabilities of the subwoofer

At 2:26 Ed talks about the performance of ported in the 20-40 hertz range make them a good choice for action and sci-fi movies in a larger room at higher playback levels

Nick concludes there is a grain of truth to sealed being better for music and Ed states a sealed subwoofer can provide you with a no compromise music and home theater experience if the volume levels and room size are consistent with the output of the subwoofer.

Given that I am looking at using this in a 2nd/3rd bedroom which will be the enclosed and maybe 1200 cubic feet in volume and that I am looking for better music performance and I don’t have an unlimited budget, it really seems I should be at least considering a sealed sub.(Sorry about the run on sentence- I have to get going).

Which one I will get is an issue I am still researching. I might actually end up getting both and trying them both out and sending one back.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
tenor-3.gif


Get that Boys, Now he's got his Wife doing his fighting for him.
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I am really surprised at your choice of a video to make your point. I had a few minutes today to rewatch it before my wife got up and I made notes about the the following:

At 53 seconds Ed talks about sealed having good detail, articulation, tightness and transient response.

At 1:06 he puts up the slide about transient response.

At 1:20 Nick talks about a sub with poor transient response might blur some of the notes.

At 1:28 Ed slays a properly designed sealed subwoofer can sort of stop on a dime.

At 1:49 Ed says a sealed subwoofer can provide you with a no compromise listening experience even on home theater provided the room size and volume level are consistent with then output capabilities of the subwoofer

At 2:26 Ed talks about the performance of ported in the 20-40 hertz range make them a good choice for action and sci-fi movies in a larger room at higher playback levels

Nick concludes there is a grain of truth to sealed being better for music and Ed states a sealed subwoofer can provide you with a no compromise music and home theater experience if the volume levels and room size are consistent with the output of the subwoofer.

Given that I am looking at using this in a 2nd/3rd bedroom which will be the enclosed and maybe 1200 cubic feet in volume and that I am looking for better music performance and I don’t have an unlimited budget, it really seems I should be at least considering a sealed sub.(Sorry about the run on sentence- I have to get going).

Which one I will get is an issue I am still researching. I might actually end up getting both and trying them both out and sending one back.
I’ve seen that video before. Imo there’s a lot of marketing there as to not alienate a large group of their consumers. Even still, as much as I am not a fan of sealed subs, I think it makes sense for you.
 

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