Anybody have experience with the Monoprice M-12s Sealed Sub?

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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
View attachment 40223

Get that Boys, Now he's got his Wife doing his fighting for him.
What are you talking about?

What has my wife got to do with this? I said I had free time before she got up and I spent it outdoors on a beautiful morning enjoying my time and spending a few minutes on the Internet.

As you did not comment on anything I said my response to you is:

Qui tacet consentire videtur
 
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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
The Denon AVR your looking at has a feature called Audyssey Its a tool to calibrate your system


And your question goes outside the Brackets LOL
I don’t know what you mean by “the Denon AVR you are looking at.

I am not looking at any AVR’s

I am very happy with my 1912 and have been using Audyssey on it for 8.5 years ever since I got it.
 
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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
no non sono d'accordo
Then tell what in the video and what time it is at that supports your argument instead of making the totally erroneous argument my wife is fighting for me.


Give me some facts to support your opinion that I absolutely must buy a ported sub instead of giving some consideration to sealed subs before I buy?

I am eager for that sort of information if it exists. I am going to be making a purchase that should last me at least a decade.

Thanks and I await analytical, data driven response.
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
First of all I don't care what subwoofer you buy.

He states that a "properly designed" subwoofer. Those are the magic words "properly designed".

From Gary Yacoubian

A sealed design allows a subwoofer to exhibit lower group delay, which is a measure of how fast the acoustic phase of the system changes. In layman’s terms, phase is the time difference between two soundwaves as they reach your ears and sealed subwoofers can move air a little quicker to align with speaker output, so you get a slightly more coherent and better-integrated sound. That’s why the sound of sealed subwoofers is SOMETIMES described as “tighter” and more “articulate” and often chosen for critical music listening in audiophile systems.

Ported subwoofers can reach lower on the frequency spectrum and render the most demanding low-frequency content with more vigor at higher volumes, meaning it can play louder and lower even with the same amplifier power and driver measurements, and the larger cabinet volume has a lot to do with this. However, let me be clear, a ported subwoofer can also be incredibly musical, just like a sealed subwoofer can unleash palpable, chest-thumping bass for home theater. It’s more about a preference towards one sound or the other and the subtle distinctions, along with other variables than a hardened rule.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Given that I am looking at using this in a 2nd/3rd bedroom which will be the enclosed and maybe 1200 cubic feet in volume and that I am looking for better music performance and I don’t have an unlimited budget, it really seems I should be at least considering a sealed sub.(Sorry about the run on sentence- I have to get going).

Which one I will get is an issue I am still researching. I might actually end up getting both and trying them both out and sending one back.
For a 1200 Cu Ft space and with emphasis on music (not much concern over powerful LFE), I believe a sealed sub is a very good fit for your needs. After room gain is factored in (and I think it reasonable to assume in a small room, you are unlikely to have the sub away from any wall or corner, thus significant room gain is likely). You would most likely need to go to some lengths to reduce the low frequencies from a (serious) ported sub for good sound quality.

From my personal experience, once I got a ported Outlaw X-13 Ultra sub, I found a ported sub that could rival sealed subs for sound quality in my living room (while still using one of the two ports). However, I would not wish the task of using this sub (without plugging both ports to put it in sealed mode) in a 1200 Cu Ft (for perspective, call it 11' X 13'-8" X 8') room on anyone, unless they fully intended to use some form of EQ to control it. Given that it is a smaller room, the advantage of a smaller box offers more placement options, which is often key to good sub integration!

I like the idea of you trying and seeing for yourself, but would encourage you to look for good tuning options on whichever models you try!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
All marketing hype. Sealed is for when you need a smaller subwoofer, period. That is essentially its only advantage.
How do you resolve this statement with your comments on the Klipsch RP-8000F's bass response (which is much like a sealed sub's response and not at all like a ported sub's response-almost 15dB down at 30Hz!):

The above graph shows the Klipsch RP-8000F low-frequency response that I captured using groundplane measurements (where the speaker and microphone are on the ground at a 2-meter distance in a wide open area). In this response, we see a very slight roll-off from 200 Hz to just under 50 Hz, and 40 Hz is clearly the port-tuning frequency. In other speakers of this price class, we have seen a more aggressive roll-off down to port tuning so that the speakers do not risk overloading the low-frequency response of room and so the low end of their +/-3dB spec has largely been with room acoustics factored in. Klipsch seems to subscribe to this strategy but not nearly to the same degree, so their anechoic low-frequency response is less tapered off than other tower speakers in its class. The disadvantage is that a small room or congested area might boost the low-frequencies to an unnaturally bass-heavy sound. Klipsch may be betting that few people are going to place large tower speakers with dual 8” woofers in a small room, which is a sensible bet to make. With this kind of bass response, users may want to keep these speakers away from corners and side walls for the most natural bass sound.

So, it seems you are arguing that this speaker (which has a FR largely characteristic of a sealed sub, certainly not like a ported sub) might overload a small room; yet, somehow, is not a concern if you are playing music over a sub?

I cannot wrap my head around how both of these opinions can co-exist!

And, it seems to me, a lot of what you are saying here about a small room not being a great fit for the added bass of these Klipsch's (in reference to the speaker not rolling off as quickly as many other designs) is very much in-line with Ed Mullens statements about a sealed sub being a better option in a small room!
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
How do you resolve this statement with your comments on the Klipsch RP-8000F's bass response (which is much like a sealed sub's response and not at all like a ported sub's response-almost 15dB down at 30Hz!):



So, it seems you are arguing that this speaker (which has a FR largely characteristic of a sealed sub, certainly not like a ported sub) might overload a small room; yet, somehow, is not a concern if you are playing music over a sub?

I cannot wrap my head around how both of these opinions can co-exist!

And, it seems to me, a lot of what you are saying here about a small room not being a great fit for the added bass of these Klipsch's (in reference to the speaker not rolling off as quickly as many other designs) is very much in-line with Ed Mullens statements about a sealed sub being a better option in a small room!
The RP-8000F's response is very much that of a ported loudspeaker. Port output is slightly lower than that of woofer output, but this speaker is pretty flat down to 40Hz. If you wanted to use an example of a speaker with lowered output to compensate for boundary gain, the RP-8000F is not the one I would have picked. The B&W 603 would have been better.

The reason why some manufacturers go for this type of response is that users will often place the speakers against a wall or in a corner, which of course boosts the low end. Subwoofers have more flexibility in both placement and response shaping. You can always seal the port of a speaker or sub if you want to temper low-end output, but you can never add a port to a sealed loudspeaker or make it behave like a ported loudspeaker.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
The RP-8000F's response is very much that of a ported loudspeaker. Port output is slightly lower than that of woofer output, but this speaker is pretty flat down to 40Hz.

I agree that the RP-8000F response is that of a ported loudspeaker!
I picked it because you expressed concern that this FR could be bass-heavy in a smaller room.
However, it is hard to find a good sealed ID sub that does not offer quite a bit more bass!
However, it's frequency response (which may be too much bass if placed in a small room) is much closer to a sealed sub's response than it is to a ported sub's response (referring to the kind of $500 plus subs generally recommended here).
Be aware that the dB scale for the Klipsch is 5dB and the scales for the HSU is 2dB!
Klipsch RF-8000F:


HSU ULS-15 (sealed):


HSU VTF-2 MK5 (ported):


The reason why some manufacturers go for this type of response is that users will often place the speakers against a wall or in a corner, which of course boosts the low end.
IME (based on the gallery), in small rooms, the sub will most likely be located against a wall or in a corner, so I am not too sure how realistic of a proposition pulling the sub out into the middle of a small room is in practice!

Subwoofers have more flexibility in both placement and response shaping. You can always seal the port of a speaker or sub if you want to temper low-end output, but you can never add a port to a sealed loudspeaker or make it behave like a ported loudspeaker.
That is a valid point. However, if he tries both as he has indicated, he can find out which does better in his room and if it is the smaller sealed sub ... and the ported sub run in sealed mode (either of which is where smart money would be bet), the sealed sub will be easier on the back, wallet, and ability to tuck it in more nooks!

Like I said, my Outlaw convinced me that a ported sub can do the job, but I still can't understand the "no way, no how" attitude towards sealed by most here (William Lemmerhirt being the exception in this case)!
In my large volume LR/HT setup, for the music I listen to, the Outlaws are no better than my Rythmik E15HP's. As close as my ear can tell, they are equal. I like the Outlaws better when I listen to HT.
If someone listens to music with deep synthesized bass, that would tilt the scale to the Outlaw, but for me, it is only HT LFE that recommends the Outlaw!
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I agree that the RP-8000F response is that of a ported loudspeaker!
I picked it because you expressed concern that this FR could be bass-heavy in a smaller room.
However, it is hard to find a good sealed ID sub that does not offer quite a bit more bass!
However, it's frequency response (which may be too much bass if placed in a small room) is much closer to a sealed sub's response than it is to a ported sub's response (referring to the kind of $500 plus subs generally recommended here).
Be aware that the dB scale for the Klipsch is 5dB and the scales for the HSU is 2dB!
Klipsch RF-8000F:


HSU ULS-15 (sealed):


HSU VTF-2 MK5 (ported):



IME (based on the gallery), in small rooms, the sub will most likely be located against a wall or in a corner, so I am not too sure how realistic of a proposition pulling the sub out into the middle of a small room is in practice!


That is a valid point. However, if he tries both as he has indicated, he can find out which does better in his room and if it is the smaller sealed sub ... and the ported sub run in sealed mode (either of which is where smart money would be bet), the sealed sub will be easier on the back, wallet, and ability to tuck it in more nooks!

Like I said, my Outlaw convinced me that a ported sub can do the job, but I still can't understand the "no way, no how" attitude towards sealed by most here (William Lemmerhirt being the exception in this case)!
In my large volume LR/HT setup, for the music I listen to, the Outlaws are no better than my Rythmik E15HP's. As close as my ear can tell, they are equal. I like the Outlaws better when I listen to HT.
If someone listens to music with deep synthesized bass, that would tilt the scale to the Outlaw, but for me, it is only HT LFE that recommends the Outlaw!
The ULS-15 mk2 response is not a traditional sealed sub response. It has a high-pass filter that makes it roll off at a more rapid rate than a conventional sealed sub behaves.

As for the low end of the RP-8000F, it may very well have too much bass for a small room, however, that can be solved with equalization. You can also just seal the port. It isn't intended to be used in small rooms though.

Again, if you find that your ported sub has too much low end for the room, you can always either seal the port or reduce the low end through equalization. You can always make a large sub sound like a small one but you can't ever make a small sub sound like a large one.
 
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bladerunner6

Audioholic Intern
First of all I don't care what subwoofer you buy.
Then why are you participating in this thread? I started it to ask if anyone has any experience with a particular product. You have no interest in my decision or being helpful so why bother?
 

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