Anthem MRX 1140 vs Denon AVR-X8500H

flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
What issues did you have with the htp-1? How did it sound vs the 8500? Would you have kept it minus the issues?? Looking at the 8500 and htp-1 personally. Like to get more of your thoughts.
So, issues-wise, the unit had to be re-booted a couple of times. Mind you, there is no easy way to reboot it. You have to download the software onto a USB stick and reload it from there. Needless to say, all settings get wiped out and you basically have to start over again as if it were a brand new unit. I returned the unit when it kept restarting itself and became unusable. Monoprice was going to send me a replacement unit. Also, I could hear what I would describe as digital artifacts when switching inputs. Both of these things are unacceptable in my book for a $4,000 unit. This could very well have been a problem isolated to MY unit but 1st impressions are the ones that count.

The 8500 just works. Easy to setup. I think the HTP might be a little more adjustable on a per-channel basis but not something I needed. Both units sound awesome, but I have a well-treated room and my speakers are a little above average. I had the units a few months apart and there is no way I would try and say how I remember how one sounded over the other. Having had both units, I'm super happy with the Denon. It's an absolute beast of a preamp, and has great amplification to boot. I do use separate amps all around and only use the 8500's amps for my Atmos channels but thinking I may put some of those channels to use in other zones.

I will also add, the Denon HEOS app for streaming music absolutely sucks. It doesn't play nice with Amazon music. Doesn't download or import your playlist. You basically have to search for stuff and play it. Can't build a playlist. It's minor but, when I select the HEOS input to stream, the receiver displays a message of "No Network Connected". Everything works but the message is displayed. Currently waiting on Denon support... It's a minute thing but at this price point, it should be perfect.

I am still searching for an easy way to stream HD music with a nice interface.
 
Last edited:
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
ciotime:

I found the post by @DJ7675 that included a screenshot for disconnecting the individual channel internal power amps. He's the one who told me of this special capability.

Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review | Page 10 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

And by the way, since you may be considering the Storm Audio too, DJ7675 has made his switch, as far as I know from NADT758 V3 to AVR-X8500H, now StormAudio. I hope he will chime in and give you some feedback on Audyssey vs Dirac Live vs Trinnov. After that you should ready to tell ADTG which one you are going to buy from him, assuming he will offer you a deal that no one can match, shipped to your country and match your mains voltage/frequency.:D


SOLD: Denon X8500H Receiver Price Drop | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
You may be sorry you asked, @PENG .... this turned out way to long!

A few thoughts that may or may not be interesting or helpful :)
-I really enjoyed the Denon X8500 I had. No issues, ever. If someone wants easy setup, point and shoot usage, I still think Denon (or one of the major brands) is the way to go.
-However I did decide to switch to the Storm Audio MKII and for me I have no regrets.
-There is certainly a learning curve with the Storm, but it is not too bad getting it set up.
-In addition to automatic eq, I wanted something that could do more than 2 subs automatically and the Storm has DLBC, which is super easy to use and sounds great
-I wanted full manual eq so I could manual set filters if I wanted. There were times that I just wanted to manually eq something with a simple filter, and I couldn't do that with Audyssey. Now for example with manual filters, I can simply toggle them on/off to see if something sounds better or not
-Dr Toole, from my understanding, seems to favor EQing a speaker above the transition to be flat anechoic vs measuring your listening position, and auto EQing that. With the Storm, I can take speaker measurements from Audiosciencereview, for example, and EQ the speaker above the transition. So the combiniation of using DLBC below say 300hz and speaker eq above is a great combo. Or, I can just run Dirac full range and compare.
-Storm does dirac on multiple zones (zones can be mono or stereo). You are only limited by the number of channels you have. I believe Storm is the only one that offers Dirac on multiple zones
-Storm XT- With speakers that are not included in a format, storm will use those speakers. For example if you have a center height speaker or a VOG speaker and are playing an atmos track, normally these would be silent. With Storm XT they won't be. It will pull audio from the surrounding speakers. I am in the process of adding center height and VOG (already have wides).
-WebUI is very well laid out
-DTSX Pro-So many of the 16 channel processors don't have DTSX Pro and it is a really great with DTSX and DTS Neural X upmixer
-Upgradeable-Hardware upgradeable if needed in the future and Storm continues to support the MKI for example with all the features of the MKII
-Support is excellent. I have had to work with them on a couple of issues and they are very responsive and helpful.
So the Storm is a really good option if you:
-want 16+ channels, Dirac, DLBC, Dirac on multiple zones, DTSX Pro, Storm XT, Manual EQ, Speaker EQ (forgot to mention you can import from REW too)
-if none of these really appeal to you, then I would stick with the simplicity of a Denon
Sound quality-This is always the hardest to quantify with any certainty... I never had both systems up and the same time, impossible really to do multispeaker system switching etc,. So with all of that said, do I think it sounds better? I think it does sound better than it ever has in my room but I have changed speaker locations, subs, added a few more speakers etc. So it is impossible to be certain of course but sure think it does and it has been very enjoyable to use.
This was too long, sorry!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You may be sorry you asked, @PENG .... this turned out way to long!

A few thoughts that may or may not be interesting or helpful :)
-I really enjoyed the Denon X8500 I had. No issues, ever. If someone wants easy setup, point and shoot usage, I still think Denon (or one of the major brands) is the way to go.
-However I did decide to switch to the Storm Audio MKII and for me I have no regrets.
-There is certainly a learning curve with the Storm, but it is not too bad getting it set up.
-In addition to automatic eq, I wanted something that could do more than 2 subs automatically and the Storm has DLBC, which is super easy to use and sounds great
-I wanted full manual eq so I could manual set filters if I wanted. There were times that I just wanted to manually eq something with a simple filter, and I couldn't do that with Audyssey. Now for example with manual filters, I can simply toggle them on/off to see if something sounds better or not
-Dr Toole, from my understanding, seems to favor EQing a speaker above the transition to be flat anechoic vs measuring your listening position, and auto EQing that. With the Storm, I can take speaker measurements from Audiosciencereview, for example, and EQ the speaker above the transition. So the combiniation of using DLBC below say 300hz and speaker eq above is a great combo. Or, I can just run Dirac full range and compare.
-Storm does dirac on multiple zones (zones can be mono or stereo). You are only limited by the number of channels you have. I believe Storm is the only one that offers Dirac on multiple zones
-Storm XT- With speakers that are not included in a format, storm will use those speakers. For example if you have a center height speaker or a VOG speaker and are playing an atmos track, normally these would be silent. With Storm XT they won't be. It will pull audio from the surrounding speakers. I am in the process of adding center height and VOG (already have wides).
-WebUI is very well laid out
-DTSX Pro-So many of the 16 channel processors don't have DTSX Pro and it is a really great with DTSX and DTS Neural X upmixer
-Upgradeable-Hardware upgradeable if needed in the future and Storm continues to support the MKI for example with all the features of the MKII
-Support is excellent. I have had to work with them on a couple of issues and they are very responsive and helpful.
So the Storm is a really good option if you:
-want 16+ channels, Dirac, DLBC, Dirac on multiple zones, DTSX Pro, Storm XT, Manual EQ, Speaker EQ (forgot to mention you can import from REW too)
-if none of these really appeal to you, then I would stick with the simplicity of a Denon
Sound quality-This is always the hardest to quantify with any certainty... I never had both systems up and the same time, impossible really to do multispeaker system switching etc,. So with all of that said, do I think it sounds better? I think it does sound better than it ever has in my room but I have changed speaker locations, subs, added a few more speakers etc. So it is impossible to be certain of course but sure think it does and it has been very enjoyable to use.
This was too long, sorry!
Wow, all I can say is, I want one!!! Not that I believe in the better sound quality thing, and I don't, but it seems like my kind of toys that can give me many days of fun playing and tweaking. Oh, I do believe sound quality does change with different EQ so I also think one will increase the chance of finding one's sweet spot by going with some like your Storm Audio. Now, we where can I find USD 15K is a different story.:p
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
So, issues-wise, the unit had to be re-booted a couple of times. Mind you, there is no easy way to reboot it. You have to download the software onto a USB stick and reload it from there. Needless to say, all settings get wiped out and you basically have to start over again as if it were a brand new unit. I returned the unit when it kept restarting itself and became unusable. Monoprice was going to send me a replacement unit. Also, I could hear what I would describe as digital artifacts when switching inputs. Both of these things are unacceptable in my book for a $4,000 unit. This could very well have been a problem isolated to MY unit but 1st impressions are the ones that count.

The 8500 just works. Easy to setup. I think the HTP might be a little more adjustable on a per-channel basis but not something I needed. Both units sound awesome, but I have a well-treated room and my speakers are a little above average. I had the units a few months apart and there is no way I would try and say how I remember how one sounded over the other. Having had both units, I'm super happy with the Denon. It's an absolute beast of a preamp, and has great amplification to boot. I do use separate amps all around and only use the 8500's amps for my Atmos channels but thinking I may put some of those channels to use in other zones.

I will also add, the Denon HEOS app for streaming music absolutely sucks. It doesn't play nice with Amazon music. Doesn't download or import your playlist. You basically have to search for stuff and play it. Can't build a playlist. It's minor but, when I select the HEOS input to stream, the receiver displays a message of "No Network Connected". Everything works but the message is displayed. Currently waiting on Denon support... It's a minute thing but at this price point, it should be perfect.

I am still searching for an easy way to stream HD music with a nice interface.
I had the Denon A110, and I too was frustrated with the HEOS app using Amazon. I finally moved to the Roon Nucleus using Tidal and/or Qobuz for hi-res streaming. Roon has a dedicated user community (robust forum) and a very easy intuitive app interface. If you buy the roon nucleus you get a year subscription to roon included.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
I had the Denon A110, and I too was frustrated with the HEOS app using Amazon. I finally moved to the Roon Nucleus using Tidal and/or Qobuz for hi-res streaming. Roon has a dedicated user community (robust forum) and a very easy intuitive app interface. If you buy the roon nucleus you get a year subscription to roon included.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes. I tried Roon and liked it when I had the HTP since it is Roon ready. The Denon is only Roon tested. I currently use Spotify in the cars since the app is native and Amazon HD at home. Waiting for the car’s software update which will have Tidal native app and then I’ll switch everything to Tidal. Looking at the Nucleus or another dedicated streamer like the Cambridge or…. Still looking.

HEOS is really a joke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
I used the nucleus with the Denon as an HDMI input vice the network ethernet. It worked fine. It recognized the Denon/Nucleus as a zone and didn’t miss a beat (pun intended). Tidal already has a nice CarPlay app using IOS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
o, issues-wise, the unit had to be re-booted a couple of times. Mind you, there is no easy way to reboot it. You have to download the software onto a USB stick and reload it from there. Needless to say, all settings get wiped out and you basically have to start over again as if it were a brand new unit. I returned the unit when it kept restarting itself and became unusable. Monoprice was going to send me a replacement unit. Also, I could hear what I would describe as digital artifacts when switching inputs. Both of these things are unacceptable in my book for a $4,000 unit. This could very well have been a problem isolated to MY unit but 1st impressions are the ones that count.
Over the past year or so I had the HTP-1 in my cart 3-4 times and ultimately decided against it. The reboot issue (which some still suffer from it seems) was probably the biggest deterant. Not everyone had the issue and most don't have it anymore it seems but just something I wouldn't want to deal with. Also, no DTSX Pro... huge ommision for a 16 channel processor in my opinion. Otherwise it does tick a lot of boxes....
 
flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
I used the nucleus with the Denon as an HDMI input vice the network ethernet. It worked fine. It recognized the Denon/Nucleus as a zone and didn’t miss a beat (pun intended). Tidal already has a nice CarPlay app using IOS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeeeaaa, unfortunately Teslas don’t have CarPlay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
Over the past year or so I had the HTP-1 in my cart 3-4 times and ultimately decided against it. The reboot issue (which some still suffer from it seems) was probably the biggest deterant. Not everyone had the issue and most don't have it anymore it seems but just something I wouldn't want to deal with. Also, no DTSX Pro... huge ommision for a 16 channel processor in my opinion. Otherwise it does tick a lot of boxes....
I really wish I wouldn’t have had those issues. I would’ve kept the unit. For now the 8500 will do until someday the ATI unit comes out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
Wow, all I can say is, I want one!!! Not that I believe in the better sound quality thing, and I don't, but it seems like my kind of toys that can give me many days of fun playing and tweaking. Oh, I do believe sound quality does change with different EQ so I also think one will increase the chance of finding one's sweet spot by going with some like your Storm Audio. Now, we where can I find USD 15K is a different story.:p
-I agree, price for these things are very expensive and the "worth it" is certainly questionable and will be a no for a lot of people for sure.
-I do think though that the benefits can be quite audible depending on the kind of corrections you need to make on the speakers if doing manual eq above the transition, or by using full range eq depending on the Dirac Room curve you use. If a person doesn't really care for automated eq, but want to fix some issues with a particular speaker, it can be done without touching the entire freqency range. I think there is merit to those that have had poor experience with full range automated EQ. It can be pretty hit or miss depending on your speakers, room, eq system, microphone used etc...Safest bet is to get good speakers and leave them alone above 200-500hz. But with some careful EQ, in particular if you have good anechoic/klippel measurements, there are improvements that can be made. It just depends on how much you like to play around with such things...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I really wish I wouldn’t have had those issues. I would’ve kept the unit. For now the 8500 will do until someday the ATI unit comes out.
That's just turrible, having to settle with a flagship receiver like that. :p

That is a really nice unit tho, should hold you over pretty well. With all the crap happening right now with bugs and the new HDMI standard it's prolly good to lay low for a while anyway.
 
flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Full Audioholic
That's just turrible, having to settle with a flagship receiver like that. :p

That is a really nice unit tho, should hold you over pretty well. With all the crap happening right now with bugs and the new HDMI standard it's prolly good to lay low for a while anyway.
. Yes. I wouldn’t exactly say settling.

I’m super happy with the Denon. It’s a great unit.


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G

GalZohar

Enthusiast
Hi,
Interesting discussion! Sounds like the most important factor is being able to EQ the bass, with XT32/Arc/Dirac probably do similarly? So that leaves us to just price?

What about the amps? Denon seems to measure better than just about anything within 3x its price range on ASR. But does that really provide the whole picture? Does Anthem 1140 really have lower quality amps than X3700h?

Is there anything in Anthem justifying it's price? While I believe in science, it's difficult for me to believe they sell products based on pure marketing and nicer UI for the EQ system.

What about the subwoofer integration? I know the different EQ systems aren't exactly identical in how they handle the crossover, especially not the high-end ones such as Trinnov and Lyngdorf or Dirac with DLBC? While the last 3 are probably out of my budget reach, I was wondering if XT32/Arc/basic Dirac have any real differences in their ability to integrate the subwoofer(s) with the main speakers. I think we can put aside multi-sub handling as that supposedly can be handled cheaply with minidsp 2x4HD (and even if might require more effort, when on a budget effort is preferable to spending $$ if it can obtain similar results...).

I run X2700h with not-so-good Audyssey XT, and was wondering if the minimal upgrade to X3700h would be best for me, leaving more money for room treatments which I currently have none of (not that I can extensively treat the room, it is a living room after all), or other future upgrades - My speakers are "just" SVS Ultra bookshelves for L/R and SVS Prime bookshelves for surround L/R, and the subwoofer is a single SVS PB-2000 I got on sale. While I really want to get some upgrade, I want to avoid spending too much, especially on something that is expensive purely due to marketing. Watching just 1-2 movies on a good week just wouldn't justify spending a fortune for me.


I have several friends who swear by anthem > denon (even without Audyssey/Arc) as well as swearing by Arc's superiority. However, none of them ever measure anything, so the difference could just be due to different target curve or even pure luck (subwoofer integration for example can be better/worse depending on the delay you set, and if you don't optimize it on both systems one will do better than the other by sheer luck), or just psychological effect. Some other friends like their Denons but don't claim for superiority over Anthem.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi,
Interesting discussion! Sounds like the most important factor is being able to EQ the bass, with XT32/Arc/Dirac probably do similarly? So that leaves us to just price?

What about the amps? Denon seems to measure better than just about anything within 3x its price range on ASR. But does that really provide the whole picture? Does Anthem 1140 really have lower quality amps than X3700h?

Is there anything in Anthem justifying it's price? While I believe in science, it's difficult for me to believe they sell products based on pure marketing and nicer UI for the EQ system.

What about the subwoofer integration? I know the different EQ systems aren't exactly identical in how they handle the crossover, especially not the high-end ones such as Trinnov and Lyngdorf or Dirac with DLBC? While the last 3 are probably out of my budget reach, I was wondering if XT32/Arc/basic Dirac have any real differences in their ability to integrate the subwoofer(s) with the main speakers. I think we can put aside multi-sub handling as that supposedly can be handled cheaply with minidsp 2x4HD (and even if might require more effort, when on a budget effort is preferable to spending $$ if it can obtain similar results...).

I run X2700h with not-so-good Audyssey XT, and was wondering if the minimal upgrade to X3700h would be best for me, leaving more money for room treatments which I currently have none of (not that I can extensively treat the room, it is a living room after all), or other future upgrades - My speakers are "just" SVS Ultra bookshelves for L/R and SVS Prime bookshelves for surround L/R, and the subwoofer is a single SVS PB-2000 I got on sale. While I really want to get some upgrade, I want to avoid spending too much, especially on something that is expensive purely due to marketing. Watching just 1-2 movies on a good week just wouldn't justify spending a fortune for me.


I have several friends who swear by anthem > denon (even without Audyssey/Arc) as well as swearing by Arc's superiority. However, none of them ever measure anything, so the difference could just be due to different target curve or even pure luck (subwoofer integration for example can be better/worse depending on the delay you set, and if you don't optimize it on both systems one will do better than the other by sheer luck), or just psychological effect. Some other friends like their Denons but don't claim for superiority over Anthem.
I really think it's psychological. Some folks will fight tooth and nail to say it's not, but invariably they will also have never attempted to do a proper dbt comparison. Not a lot of people have as it's not a super simple thing to set up, but in the few I've seen it was demonstrated that those perceived differences completely disappeared once sight was taken out of the equation. Here is one example.

Sighted bias is a powerful thing, but I think some people take it as an insult if you suggest that's what is going on. It's not an insult at all tho, just a shortcoming of the way our brains interpret reality based on input from multiple senses at the same time, and sometimes the signal gets crossed.

Have you ever taken a drink of something thinking it was say, Coca Cola, it turned out to be orange juice and you didn't taste it right away?
 
G

Golfx

Full Audioholic
Hi,
Interesting discussion! Sounds like the most important factor is being able to EQ the bass, with XT32/Arc/Dirac probably do similarly? So that leaves us to just price?

What about the amps? Denon seems to measure better than just about anything within 3x its price range on ASR. But does that really provide the whole picture? Does Anthem 1140 really have lower quality amps than X3700h?

Is there anything in Anthem justifying it's price? While I believe in science, it's difficult for me to believe they sell products based on pure marketing and nicer UI for the EQ system.

What about the subwoofer integration? I know the different EQ systems aren't exactly identical in how they handle the crossover, especially not the high-end ones such as Trinnov and Lyngdorf or Dirac with DLBC? While the last 3 are probably out of my budget reach, I was wondering if XT32/Arc/basic Dirac have any real differences in their ability to integrate the subwoofer(s) with the main speakers. I think we can put aside multi-sub handling as that supposedly can be handled cheaply with minidsp 2x4HD (and even if might require more effort, when on a budget effort is preferable to spending $$ if it can obtain similar results...).

I run X2700h with not-so-good Audyssey XT, and was wondering if the minimal upgrade to X3700h would be best for me, leaving more money for room treatments which I currently have none of (not that I can extensively treat the room, it is a living room after all), or other future upgrades - My speakers are "just" SVS Ultra bookshelves for L/R and SVS Prime bookshelves for surround L/R, and the subwoofer is a single SVS PB-2000 I got on sale. While I really want to get some upgrade, I want to avoid spending too much, especially on something that is expensive purely due to marketing. Watching just 1-2 movies on a good week just wouldn't justify spending a fortune for me.


I have several friends who swear by anthem > denon (even without Audyssey/Arc) as well as swearing by Arc's superiority. However, none of them ever measure anything, so the difference could just be due to different target curve or even pure luck (subwoofer integration for example can be better/worse depending on the delay you set, and if you don't optimize it on both systems one will do better than the other by sheer luck), or just psychological effect. Some other friends like their Denons but don't claim for superiority over Anthem.
Anthem has some very loyal followers. The whole superior “sound” like you say is not measured by them—just a given to their confirmation bias. Denons test better and have much much fewer bugs upon release. Just glance over the AVS forum owner’s thread for AVM 70/90. Oh my gosh was that an embarrassing clumsy release early on. Whew.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hi,
Interesting discussion! Sounds like the most important factor is being able to EQ the bass, with XT32/Arc/Dirac probably do similarly? So that leaves us to just price?

What about the amps? Denon seems to measure better than just about anything within 3x its price range on ASR. But does that really provide the whole picture? Does Anthem 1140 really have lower quality amps than X3700h?

Is there anything in Anthem justifying it's price? While I believe in science, it's difficult for me to believe they sell products based on pure marketing and nicer UI for the EQ system.

What about the subwoofer integration? I know the different EQ systems aren't exactly identical in how they handle the crossover, especially not the high-end ones such as Trinnov and Lyngdorf or Dirac with DLBC? While the last 3 are probably out of my budget reach, I was wondering if XT32/Arc/basic Dirac have any real differences in their ability to integrate the subwoofer(s) with the main speakers. I think we can put aside multi-sub handling as that supposedly can be handled cheaply with minidsp 2x4HD (and even if might require more effort, when on a budget effort is preferable to spending $$ if it can obtain similar results...).

I run X2700h with not-so-good Audyssey XT, and was wondering if the minimal upgrade to X3700h would be best for me, leaving more money for room treatments which I currently have none of (not that I can extensively treat the room, it is a living room after all), or other future upgrades - My speakers are "just" SVS Ultra bookshelves for L/R and SVS Prime bookshelves for surround L/R, and the subwoofer is a single SVS PB-2000 I got on sale. While I really want to get some upgrade, I want to avoid spending too much, especially on something that is expensive purely due to marketing. Watching just 1-2 movies on a good week just wouldn't justify spending a fortune for me.


I have several friends who swear by anthem > denon (even without Audyssey/Arc) as well as swearing by Arc's superiority. However, none of them ever measure anything, so the difference could just be due to different target curve or even pure luck (subwoofer integration for example can be better/worse depending on the delay you set, and if you don't optimize it on both systems one will do better than the other by sheer luck), or just psychological effect. Some other friends like their Denons but don't claim for superiority over Anthem.
Economies of scale usually dictates pricing.

How many units a brand sells also affects rarity of the brand. People feel that the rarer a certain brand is (less people buying them), the more special it is.

Like others have reiterated, smaller company products (rarer) usually suffer more bugs. They certainly don't measure or sound any better.

As far as having friends who swears, I have friends who swear that Bose makes the best speakers in the world. :D
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
I agree with AcuDefTechGuy... :)
I will put my Bose 901s'..
Up against any other brand/model of loudspeaker regardless of price... :rolleyes:

Just my $0.02... ;)
 

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