Anthem AVM70 preamp processor

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Having used the AVM70 for about 5 months, I would like to share my findings and user experience as follows:

Anthem® | A/V Processor | AVM 70 | Specifications (anthemav.com)
anthem-avm-70-8k-spec-sheet-rev0.pdf (anthemav.com)

Anthem MRX 740 & 1140 AV Receivers Comparison Bench Test Results! | Audioholics
Official Anthem AVM 70/90 Owners Thread | AVS Forum
Anthem AVM70 Review (AV Processor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

AVM70 feature highlights:
  • Web interface that offers very good control of the unit.
  • Has a nice looking phone app, for some reasons, it is still in beta version.
  • DTS:X pro promised in the early days apparently won’t be for the AVM70 but may still be available for the AVM90 eventually. I only use 7.1.4 so there is no need for the X version anyway, my room is too small for 15 speaker channels.
  • It has “virtual inputs”, that you can create to select specific features you want such as ARC on/off, sound modes, speaker profiles, input trims, lip sync etc.
  • Built in Chromecast.
  • Measurement kit includes a real mic stand that is of very high quality and easy to use.
  • They don’t tell you which dac chips are used, but their customer support did confirm they substituted the AK4490 with ESS chips after the AKM factory fire. They claimed to use the ES9038Q2M, but without a teardown, it is unclear if they use that one for all channels or only the “main channels”. There are definitely other lower quality chips such as the ES9010K2M and PCM5100(or 01) on the top board. Not: someone took a photo of the ES90102M from the top.
  • Specified pre out voltage is 10.7 V maximum, at <0.1%, that means this thing can drive any power amps with ease, including the AHB2 that has relatively low gain.
  • Analog to Digital: I am really impressed to see that Anthem used an ADC chip that has excellent specs, that should guarantee transparent ADC such that I feel good using analog inputs and still have ARCG on.
Features some may consider desirable on a US$3,999 unit, but unfortunately, not available:
  • Balanced analog inputs
  • Front access I/Os
  • One button to select (edit: there is a button to select input but not "switch", such as from input 1 to input 7) inputs (like D+M’s) on the remote. That makes it difficult to setup my Harmony 650 for input selection. Some users claimed they were able to do it.
  • Audio file info, such 24/192, DSD 11.2 kHz etc. on-screen display
  • DLNA streaming (Build in Chromecast seems limited to PCM48 kHz only
Bugs:

There is a long list of FW updates, more than 10, as shown in the following link:


I am not aware of any bugs that would really bother me any more as of now, but there are still recent posts related to the fan issues, that is, it would start even when the unit feels cool and is well ventilated, and it would sound loud enough to be audible. It apparently only affects some units, strange, but seems to be true based on forum posts.

ARC Genesis:

The mic kit is absolutely fantastic, very good build quality, looks nice, and very functional. The mic itself looks like the Umik-1. I would pay $200 for the mic kit, but it is included in the price.

Bug? The interface is quite nice, comparable to the $200 Audyssey MultEQ-X's, but it does not offer the same level of flexibity and tweakability. You can save multiple ARCG runs on you PCs, and each one can have up to 4 different profiles. I found that when you upload the file to the unit, if you don't cycle power the unit, something may get messed up, in my case, it would cause the front left channel (possibly other channels as well) to level to increase by about 2 to 3 dB, resulting in channel unbalance that one may or my not notice when watching movies. I reported this the Anthem and after a few email exchanges, the rep seemed to agree it could be a bug. I am not concerned about this at all because as long as I cycle power once, everything would be back to normal, so it is a harmless, friendly bug (if it is...)

It allows manual adjustments to the deep bass (from 50 Hz down) and room gain by adjusting the center frequency and gain, a bit like the PEQ gain and Q, vs Audyssey and Dirac Live that allows you custom the target quite freely, though not in ridiculous ways. I ‘ve the feeling that ARCG is probably still PEQ based…, similar to Yamaha's (if I am right about that but obviously I could be all wrong).

Regardless, despite many online rave reviews by users and professional reviews, I have not been able to replicate the results obtainable by Audyssey and/or Dirac Live, when comparing my REW graphs for two channel frequency response, impulse response etc., based on per channel and both channel with two subs running. That is the case not just for the mmp, but for other seat positions as well.

With tweaking though, I am still able to get very similar FR to that achieved by Audyssey, still not as tight, but close enough.

My only cautionary note on this is, without the deep bass and room gain tweaks, I found the bass from below 50 Hz lacking, in fact ARCG appeared to have created a bigger and worse suck out in that range than with it turned right off. If this happens to my setup, I have to assume it could happen to others too. The fact that the vast majority of the users like ARCG a lot, I am hesitant to say anything bad about it, though I suspect in some case, users may either not have the room modes I have, and/or they simply didn’t know what they missed because they had nothing to compared with, and they typically trust those predicted FR graphs generated by the ARCG software.

EDIT: One other negative about ARCG, the calibration chirp is very loud, did not measure it but I bet it is likely about 85 dB. Not a big deal, but I wish Anthem would lower that to 70 to 75 dB.

That’s about what I have to say for now, and will just add to it if I have more facts and findings.

Example of RC results comparison for the range 15 - 300 Hz.

1682785047822.jpeg


1682862673353.jpeg


My subjective measurements:

Movies, even some YT videos, sound amazing. Music sounds great too, I feel no need to spend US$ 4,000 more for the AVM90. I am very happy with the audio and video performance of the AVM70.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
For the OCD group only:

These are REW FR curves with ARCG vs XT32 SubEQ HT Ref curve, without any manual tweaks with the app.
On paper, Audyssey is the clear winner (for my setup only, obviously), but the Anthem sounded very good subjectively, other than the very deep bass layer missing.

1682865159833.jpeg
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am not aware of any other multichannel AV preamp/processor (aside from the AVM70 and AVM90) that uses such a high quality ADC:
ES9822PRO_DS_v0_3-3074396.pdf (mouser.ca)

125 dB DNR in 2 channel mode
-117 dB THD+N in 2 channel mode

Anthem never even bragged about using such a high end ADC, it was a nice surprise when I saw it under the hood.

May be they use the same one in the MRX-1140 too, hence the reason why they don't bother providing the ADC bypass option. That bypass (like D+M's direct mode) option when using analog inputs, is only available in the AVM70 and 90.

1682866579821.jpeg
 

Attachments

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S

stinga

Enthusiast
Dear Mr Peng, hello from New Zealand and thanks for your review, I have been waiting patiently for this as I find your posts objective and always helpful, so thanks!!
If you had your time again would you buy same or do you think a run of the mill Denon AVR would match this in pre out mode? I am probably 70% music, sorry if its a loaded question but I'm torn between going dedicated pro vs 6700 vs 740.
Thanks for your good work it is appreciated by alot of peeps around the globe.
Al
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Dear Mr Peng, hello from New Zealand and thanks for your review, I have been waiting patiently for this as I find your posts objective and always helpful, so thanks!!
If you had your time again would you buy same or do you think a run of the mill Denon AVR would match this in pre out mode? I am probably 70% music, sorry if its a loaded question but I'm torn between going dedicated pro vs 6700 vs 740.
Thanks for your good work it is appreciated by alot of peeps around the globe.
Al
Between those two, I would go with the one that saves you money, but if you opt for the Denon, please also purchase the $20 app (that's US$). In my experience, in terms of effectiveness of the room correction, I would rank ARC Genesis versus Audyssey XT32 SubEQ as follow:

With minimum tweaks with the App, say less than an hour:

Audyssey > ARCG

With more tweaks (say 2-3 hours), guided by REW and the Umik-1 mic:

Audyssey = ARCG

With much more tweaks, guided by REW, say for hours, by an experienced user:

Audyssey >> ARCG (>> means much better)

Above is based on the range 20-300 Hz only, above that, it is controversial as to whether one should apply room correction.

If you are going to pair the AVR with a high power amplifier but will use some of the internal amps, such as >200 W/300 W, 8/4 ohms that has lower gains such as less than 25 dB, then I would probably go with the Anthem because it appears to do better in terms cleaner output at higher voltage levels.

If you are going to use preamp mode, then I would say the Denon will still be a better choice regardless of any power amp you use (even those with low gain), as it represents better value overall.

A better choice would be the AVR-X4800H, because that will give you the paid option to use Dirac Live (DLBC), should you want to do that in the future. If I could go back in time, I might still have opted for the AVM70, because I already have the power amps, and I am very experienced in tweaking RC systems, including ARCG, to optimize performance.
 
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S

stinga

Enthusiast
Thanks for your thoughts again. I have alot to learn about all this room correction jazz and decisions on where to go overall with my system so I won't clutter this thread with my issues.

Can you clarfy your Harmony issues re switching pls.
On my ancient x4000 I can program my harmony for each activity i.e. play cds, watch cable, watch chromecast etc and I can nominate which input to use on the Denon. Are you saying this is not possible or has my Neanderthal brain got it messed up.
Thanks man
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
When I was at Axpona I did take about 10 minutes to talk to the one of the Anthem/Paradigm Tech persons that was at the show. He confirmed that they used the ES9038Q2M DACs and so did Chris, who is the tech support person I have worked online in the past, so I tend to belive it.
 
C

CharlesJones166

Audioholic Intern
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
When I was at Axpona I did take about 10 minutes to talk to the one of the Anthem/Paradigm Tech persons that was at the show. He confirmed that they used the ES9038Q2M DACs and so did Chris, who is the tech support person I have worked online in the past, so I tend to belive it.
I believe that too, but I still want to know those two ES9010K2M and one PCM5101 (both are 2 channel dac .chips) are for. As I mentioned before, logically speaking, they have to be for the zone 2 and/or subwoofers, but z2, or subwoofers should only need 1 such chip, the subs for the AVM90 .

It may be possible that the ES9010K2M does not support differential connections, so if the balanced XLR subouts may indeed, need 1 of those for each, hence the two visible on the top board would logically be for the two balanced subouts. In that case, I would guess that the 9010s are for the subout and Z2 probably use the PCM5101 and one will be enough because it's pre out is RCA/unbalance only.

I did ask Anthem via email and one of the reps (I think it was Chris) said the reps had no information on the zone2 DAC, and another rep (forgot his name) said if the main zone uses the 9038Q2M then it will be used for all, but obviously he's wrong because the 3 non 9038 dac chips are visible on the top board that is not hidden from sight.

Again, all these are for my curiosity only, I don't care what DAC chip they use for Z2, or even the subs as long as they work. Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, all use the PCM5100 or 5101 for the secondary zones too. It's all about costs, so they naturally would use the cheaper ones for the Z2,Z3, even network.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for your thoughts again. I have alot to learn about all this room correction jazz and decisions on where to go overall with my system so I won't clutter this thread with my issues.

Can you clarfy your Harmony issues re switching pls.
On my ancient x4000 I can program my harmony for each activity i.e. play cds, watch cable, watch chromecast etc and I can nominate which input to use on the Denon. Are you saying this is not possible or has my Neanderthal brain got it messed up.
Thanks man
Sorry, at the moment I can't help you on this. As I mentioned, I have not been able to program my Harmony 650 to do what I was able to do with my Denon and Marantz units, that is as you said, for each activity, just press one button on the Harmony for each activity. With the AVM70, I can program the Harmony to do the same, except it would just turn on and off the devices needed for the activity, but it would not switch to the correct input on the AVM. So if I was watching fibre TV, and press Amazon Firestick to watch Netflix, I have to press the input button on the Anthem remote (or use the Harmony by selecting the device and then press input) and then scroll to the correct input. It is just a minor inconvenience.

I remember seeing a couple posts on the AVS forum (but there are more than 900 pages to search through for the right posts) that mentioned applying some tricks to introduced delays between steps on the Harmony, in order to get it to switch to the correct input for the activity. I am not sure if they had different Harmony remotes, again, mine is the 650. May be those who have the higher models have better luck getting it done with a single one button press.

If I spend more time on this, I may be able to get it to work too, but it isn't a real issue for me so I am too lazy to keep trying... I know this is not helpful to you, but I hope it clarifies the issue as I perceive it, others may not have the issue because they have different Harmony models, and/or they know some tricks that I don't.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
A better choice would be the AVR-X4800H, because that will give you the paid option to use Dirac Live (DLBC), should you want to do that in the future. If I could go back in time, I might still have opted for the AVM70, because I already have the power amps, and I am very experienced in tweaking RC systems, including ARCG, to optimize performance.
@PENG Do we know for sure that x3800 and x4800 will get DBLC in addition to full range Dirac Live at some point? Choosing between staying with my Yamaha a1070 + mini pc with Dirac software Vs buying one of those Denons. A bit concerned about their DAC chips and how they compare to Yamaha
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
@PENG Do we know for sure that x3800 and x4800 will get DBLC in addition to full range Dirac Live at some point? Choosing between staying with my Yamaha a1070 + mini pc with Dirac software Vs buying one of those Denons. A bit concerned about their DAC chips and how they compare to Yamaha
As far as I know, yes, and Masimo has already published the price list for the DL licences, in at least of the Masimo videos iirc. Timing for the DLBC option is apparently, some time next year.
 
S

stinga

Enthusiast
Yeah thats a real pain in the butt as I really like the functionality of my Harmony touch, I have attached a link that maybe of help. There are a couple of options that may work.
Apparently the inputs do have discrete codes also but I can't remember which older model had it to try, user noted he used AVM 60 as his device instead of the 90.
Another option could be to just program one of the Harmony buttons as the Anthem input select i.e I never use the mute button, this would save having to go to device menu.
Al

 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah thats a real pain in the butt as I really like the functionality of my Harmony touch, I have attached a link that maybe of help. There are a couple of options that may work.
Apparently the inputs do have discrete codes also but I can't remember which older model had it to try, user noted he used AVM 60 as his device instead of the 90.
Another option could be to just program one of the Harmony buttons as the Anthem input select i.e I never use the mute button, this would save having to go to device menu.
Al

Thank you, as I mentioned I did read about those posts and do want to read them again, just dread the idea of having to search through so many pages filled by users kept posting/repeating the same things including many non senses... lol, so gain, appreciate you search them out for me so I can re-read them.

At the time, I did try those stuff mentioned, including various delays in terms of length and sequences and nothing worked. That's why I mentioned it may not work for my Harmony model, the 650, I know someone who has a higher model Harmony and he told me with the proper delays it worked. Regardless, even with the model 650, I'll try again.
 
S

stinga

Enthusiast
No probs mate, good luck, I know it would annoy the heck out of me if it doesn't work. They sure seem to have some funny ways of doing things..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
When I was at Axpona I did take about 10 minutes to talk to the one of the Anthem/Paradigm Tech persons that was at the show. He confirmed that they used the ES9038Q2M DACs and so did Chris, who is the tech support person I have worked online in the past, so I tend to belive it.
I just watched the Audio Advice/Audioholics/Anthem video on the AVM90. The gentleman from Anthem virtually confirmed my educated guess on the DACs used. "virtually" because he only talked about the AVM90 so my theory/educated guess on the AVM70 would be very logically, but still cannot say 100%.

Here's what he said about the 90:

- A couple of ES9038Pro for the main channels.
- A couple of ES9038Q2M for the subwoofer channels.
- A separate (that means one I would assume), for the Zone 2 chanels.

So logically, as I guessed before, and now I believe I am 99% correct/sure about which DAC chips are used in the AVM70:

- ES9038Q2M for the main channels, so there should be 8 of those.
- ES9010K2M for the subwoofer channels, there are two for sure because they are visible from the top board.
- PCM5101 (forgot if it is the 5100 but they are not that different anyway in specs)

So before I was not 100% (but 95% anyway as I was told by two Anthem reps) sure about the ES9038Q2M for the AVM70, not 100% only because of the presence of the lower grade ES9010K2M, but now I know the AVM90 does use the lower grade ES9038Q2M for the subs, then I am quite confident (up to 99.9% now, the two ES9010K2M must be just for the subwoofer channels.

Talk about being OCD, lol...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
This a must see video for those first time ARCG users. I would just not pay too much attention to the hype, exaggerated audio quality talks (not that Gene, and the Anthem rep, are the two who did not take part in such "sound quality" talks). It's quite fair, and expected, when dealers and loyal fans (Scott, the Audio Advice chief, and Theo, our AH friend:)) are the presenters. The setup tips part is excellent, imo.

Anthem ARC Genesis: Optimization, & Setup Tips for the Ultimate Home Theater Experience - YouTube
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
If you are stilling considering the AVM70 versus another AV preamp processors, there are two YT video in which the reviewer seemed to have done a very balanced job in terms of commenting on the pros and cons.

The first one was done in 2021 and his last update was September 17 2021, so, as expected, he encountered many bugs that he did a good job describing. Note: The AVM70 launched in 2020.

The second one deals mainly with ARCG's performance, but instead of those done by many Youtubers, who tended to trust Anthem 200% based on the great job performance by the Anthem marketing department, this reviewer actually emphasized the need to check the results with REW.

Waring: The first video was done relatively early, probably less than a year from launch time so most of the bugs and negatives he talked about may not apply any more.

The second one is of course more up to date and therefore is a better one for one to based decision on, though again, it was too early for an assessment of the effectiveness of the ARC Genesis version that finally included the phase control feature (similar to Dirac's so call DLBC). That's because he jumped in early and used the beta version. That said, his finding is very consistent with mine, and I am using the finalized, and latest version.

Anthem AVM 70 Review - YouTube

HANDS ON: Anthem AVM 70/90 Auto Phase, Distance, and Time Alignment BETA Firmware - YouTube

1684238962178.png


In this video, you can see that the reviewer also found that running ARCG, out of box without any manual intervention, resulted in a suck out at below 50 Hz, very similar to what I have discovered.

Again, I must say this again, as long as one knows about it, a couple hours of tweaking can still end up with great results, though as the reviewer said, you really have to know what you are doinng.

Conversely, for those who don't know about issue, then I guess "ignorance is bliss" would apply. For me, I hope future ARCG versions will fix the issue. I am not too hopeful though, because I got the feeling that the vast majority of Anthem users are very happy with ARC G so Anthem may not feel the need to do anything. Quiet wheels never get the grease!
 
K

Kleinst

Senior Audioholic
If you are stilling considering the AVM70 versus another AV preamp processors, there are two YT video in which the reviewer seemed to have done a very balanced job in terms of commenting on the pros and cons.

The first one was done in 2021 and his last update was September 17 2021, so, as expected, he encountered many bugs that he did a good job describing. Note: The AVM70 launched in 2020.

The second one deals mainly with ARCG's performance, but instead of those done by many Youtubers, who tended to trust Anthem 200% based on the great job performance by the Anthem marketing department, this reviewer actually emphasized the need to check the results with REW.

Waring: The first video was done relatively early, probably less than a year from launch time so most of the bugs and negatives he talked about may not apply any more.

The second one is of course more up to date and therefore is a better one for one to based decision on, though again, it was too early for an assessment of the effectiveness of the ARC Genesis version that finally included the phase control feature (similar to Dirac's so call DLBC). That's because he jumped in early and used the beta version. That said, his finding is very consistent with mine, and I am using the finalized, and latest version.

Anthem AVM 70 Review - YouTube

HANDS ON: Anthem AVM 70/90 Auto Phase, Distance, and Time Alignment BETA Firmware - YouTube

View attachment 61971

In this video, you can see that the reviewer also found that running ARCG, out of box without any manual intervention, resulted in a suck out at below 50 Hz, very similar to what I have discovered.

Again, I must say this again, as long as one knows about it, a couple hours of tweaking can still end up with great results, though as the reviewer said, you really have to know what you are doinng.

Conversely, for those who don't know about issue, then I guess "ignorance is bliss" would apply. For me, I hope future ARCG versions will fix the issue. I am not too hopeful though, because I got the feeling that the vast majority of Anthem users are very happy with ARC G so Anthem may not feel the need to do anything. Quiet wheels never get the grease!
Are you still enjoying your Anthem vs what you have had before?
 
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