Another savage shows his true colors.

[billy p]

This was a isolated incident. A close friend to the slaying girl has told police that she was moving on with with life and leaving home. Apparently the incident occured when the young women returned home for her things and you know the rest of the story. This was not about religon, its about a sick f... who killed his daughter in a fit of rage and for that reason only, be called an animal or savage.

 

[Davemcc]

I'm only going to follow up and ask if you know any Muslims? I've probably met hundreds through my educational experience, my world travels, and my work experiences. I've never met one who had the desire to kill, torture, or maim me. There are a billion muslims in the world, almost all of whom do not wish to hurt anybody else. Maybe you should head out into the world and meet people before you dismiss them as savages and knock their beliefs.

Yes I do know Muslims. Thanks for asking. In fact, one is a former officer in Saddam's army.

All the Muslims that I know have accepted the social and cultural norms of North American society. The women in their lives do not wear the Hijab and they do not want to impose Sharia Law. They are humble, peace loving and moral people. I judge them by their actions relative to their professed beliefs. In all these cases, they are not following the literal dictates of Islam, preferring instead to live a more civilized existence.

However, it should be noted that in any of those nations listed above (except maybe Turkey), the religious, political, legal and cultural ideology would compel them to observe a more rigorous discipline of the Islamic tradition on the pain of physical punishment, imprisonment or death. In Islamic societies, there is no picking and choosing which aspects of the faith you observe. You observe them all. Period.

I think you must judge people relative to their book, even Christians and Jews. Those who come here from other cultures to enjoy the benefits of western culture are welcome, provided they accept a few fundamental limits wich are spelled out in the Bill of Rights and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (in Canada). If these few simple rules that respect the life, rights and dignity of all people are too much to ask, they should stay where they are more comfortable with the political/legal traditions of society. The problem arises when people come here from one of those aforementioned cultures where women have no rights and their lives are devalued by religious decree and refuse to accept that those values are not tolerated here.

We cannot force Islamic fundamentalist states to respect life, the equality of women or the barbarism of torture. But we can expect that those who come here from those cultures to follow our laws declarations of rights. Also, we can look upon those governments and societies that hold those values and pass judgment upon their actions and their societal values that breed and perpetuate those actions.

 

[Davemcc]

This was a isolated incident. A close friend to the slaying girl has told police that she was moving on with with life and leaving home. Apparently the incident occured when the young women returned home for her things and you know the rest of the story. This was not about religon, its about a sick f... who killed his daughter in a fit of rage and for that reason only, be called an animal or savage.

I've read the articles trying to distance the father's action from his religious beliefs. But let's examine the source of the father's rage. She would not wear the Hijab (against Islam). She moved out of her father's house without his consent, unmarried and without male relatives or husband(against Islam). She publicly humiliated the male head of the household by not obeying her father's wishes (against Islam). She dressed in the western style, i.e. immodestly (against Islam). Gee, what could have caused all that pent up rage in her father, you know, in a purely secular sense.

The religious/cultural aspects of this case are too prominent to be ignored or completely dismissed out of hand even if the Canadian media and Muslim groups wish it to be.

 

[Johnd]

The religious/cultural aspects of this case are too prominent to be ignored or completely dismissed out of hand even if the Canadian media and Muslim groups wish it to be.

Perhaps. But this illustrates only the perp's fanaticism and misguided use of religion, not not 1+ billion Muslim's collective evil.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Not American, are you? That's ok. Foreigners have a right to the beliefs too. Freedom of religion is a constitutional right here in the US. BTW, the term "freedom of" is a far-reaching phrase. Check yourself.

Yes, I am American. I accept that people are free to practice their religion, but that does not mean that I accept them performing criminal acts because their religion says its OK.
(Oh, and FWIW I am not discriminatory: I disrespect all religions equally. Freedom of religion is great, but I would rather have freedom from religion.)

 

[Davemcc]

Perhaps. But this illustrates only the perp's fanaticism and misguided use of religion, not not 1+ billion Muslim's collective evil.

In a sense, you are right. The 1+ billion Muslim's collective evil can be easily ascertained by the religious/political/legal structures which they have created and the social/cultural values by which they live and force upon others in the jurisdictions in which they have the military/civil might to enforce them.

That the father is from a culture that condones, compels or tolerates actions such as his could certainly be identified as a factor, if not the source of his rage.

On an unrelated note, I wonder why it is acceptable to condemn the United States for its supposedly materialistic, imperialistic and hegemonic culture, yet it is not acceptable to impose a cultural judgment on other cultures. Other cultures have an accumulated history of actions, laws, beliefs and values with demonstrated track records of how these activities affect the lives of citizens within those countries. I think it is entirely fair to judge other cultures by their histories, actions and records to impartially evaluate those cultures. It happens to American culture all the time. Do these words sound familiar? Death to America, the great Satan.

 

[billy p]

I've read the articles trying to distance the father's action from his religious beliefs. But let's examine the source of the father's rage. She would not wear the Hijab (against Islam). She moved out of her father's house without his consent, unmarried and without male relatives or husband(against Islam). She publicly humiliated the male head of the household by not obeying her father's wishes (against Islam). She dressed in the western style, i.e. immodestly (against Islam). Gee, what could have caused all that pent up rage in her father, you know, in a purely secular sense.

The religious/cultural aspects of this case are too prominent to be ignored or completely dismissed out of hand even if the Canadian media and Muslim groups wish it to be.

Perhaps, Dave!! I got a question for the panel? How would you perceived this incident if he was white? I don't agree with many beliefs in the muslim faith but I don't beleive murdering your daughter is one of them. This entire post IMO is basically about stereotyping and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Johnd]

Yes, I am American. ... I disrespect all religions equally.

And may you reap what you sow.

 

[Johnd]

On an unrelated note, I wonder why it is acceptable to condemn the United States for its supposedly materialistic, imperialistic and hegemonic culture, yet it is not acceptable to impose a cultural judgment on other cultures.

I believe it is others' right to disagree with our lifestyle, and for them to vocalize it. I believe the converse to be true as well.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

And may you reap what you sow.

Excellent job of "creative editing". Cutting and pasting from people's quotes while removing them from their context is not quite slander, but it is close.
In some sense I already "reap what I sow" if by that you mean being disrespected by religious people. I also have to live with laws based on religious beliefs in spite of the fact that church and state are supposed to be separate.

 

[Johnd]

Excellent job of "creative editing". Cutting and pasting from people's quotes while removing them from their context is not quite slander, but it is close.
In some sense I already "reap what I sow" if by that you mean being disrespected by religious people. I also have to live with laws based on religious beliefs in spite of the fact that church and state are supposed to be separate.

Slander? Creative editing? How so? I quoted you directly, with an ellipsis in between showing the intentional omission.

You wrote both that: 1) you are an American; and, 2) that you disrepect all religions equally. Please, if you can, illustrate how I meant to deceive.

 

[jonnythan]

Dig this link,a muslim father kills his own daughter because she refused to don the traditional head gear.

Thanks dad

This religon as a whole is a bunch of animalS still living in BC times,its 2008 & these savages are still beating their wives & children & killing them when they wont bend under their iron fisted rule.

As usual the media is obligated to dig up some yoyo to defend the muslim religon

http://www.comcast.net/providers/fan/popup.html?v=608356190&pl=608142986.xml&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml

How you can jump from "man murders daughter" to "religion is a bunch of animals" is beyond me.

When you see a news story about a murder in your city over a pair of sneakers, do you immediately say "American culture is a bunch of animals living in prehistoric times"?

 

[stratman]

How you can jump from "man murders daughter" to "religion is a bunch of animals" is beyond me.

When you see a news story about a murder in your city over a pair of sneakers, do you immediately say "American culture is a bunch of animals living in prehistoric times"?

Hey I take offense at that! We kill for fur not sneakers.

 

[Johnd]

How you can jump from "man murders daughter" to "religion is a bunch of animals" is beyond me.

When you see a news story about a murder in your city over a pair of sneakers, do you immediately say "American culture is a bunch of animals living in prehistoric times"?

Right on jonnythan.

To me this is just another murder with a twist. Something I don't need to watch on the networks ad nauseum. File, prosecute, and sentence I say (if he is to be found guilty) and let the system do its' job.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Slander? Creative editing? How so? I quoted you directly, with an ellipsis in between showing the intentional omission.

You wrote both that: 1) you are an American; and, 2) that you disrepect all religions equally. Please, if you can, illustrate how I meant to deceive.

By segueing the two statements, you imply that they are related when they are not. "Yes, I am an American." ends in a period, it is a complete sentence and a complete thought.
Also, by omitting the context "I am not discriminatory", you made the second statement seem negative.

 

[jonnythan]

Also, by omitting the context "I am not discriminatory", you made the second statement seem negative.

It is negative, though you probably didn't mean it to be.

Disrespect does not mean "lacking esteem." It means active contempt. Kinda like "antisocial" doesn't mean "lacking social skills." It means actively hostile to society.

Your statement literally said that you discriminate based on religion and deliberately hold zero regard for those who believe in it.

I doubt this is what you meant to convey.

 

[annunaki]

How you can jump from "man murders daughter" to "religion is a bunch of animals" is beyond me.

When you see a news story about a murder in your city over a pair of sneakers, do you immediately say "American culture is a bunch of animals living in prehistoric times"?

Yes! I do.

 

[highfihoney]

I don't disagree. My biggest issue with this thread, however, is the fact that the OP wrote what amounts to racist comments. He/she has labeled an entire race as animals. I GUARANTEE you that if this was the case of an African-American who committed such a crime and somebody came on this board and used the words "savage" or "animal" that the post would be removed within minutes and the user banned with these boards as per the rules that the moderators have laid out.

Tell me your reasoning to accuse me of being a racist, so far your just another guy who likes to use the accusation as a dagger twords others who speak their mind in a non pc way,How do you know im not a person of color? How do you know there aren't people of color within my family?,How do you know that my top paid employee's are not peolpe of color? How do you know my wife is not a person of color ?you know none of these things.

BTW,of all the questions i asked you above only one can be answered with white,but im a racist

Ive gave you no reason to lash out at me like that & ive said nothing about anybody's race,this thread was about the muslim religion not race,last time i checked being muslim was not central to one race.

Since you brought up African Americans,yes we have discussed this several times & some members even used the -N- word,most did not use this word with malice so the thread was let to continue its course,not until some boob started throwing it around for spite did the thread get locked.

Something you'll find out with time,the mod's here are not heavy handed as long as a discussion truly remains a discussion among men.

 

[highfihoney]

This was a isolated incident.

Was it really,no it is not an isolated incident,just a year or so ago another whack job muslim father/mother & son triad killed the daughter for the same reasons,the father slit her throat with a butcher knife while the brother held her.

The whole time this was going on the mother watched & approved,great religon you guys have there

 

[highfihoney]

How you can jump from "man murders daughter" to "religion is a bunch of animals" is beyond me.

When you see a news story about a murder in your city over a pair of sneakers, do you immediately say "American culture is a bunch of animals living in prehistoric times"?

When you try to defend something at all costs its easy to be blinded by the reasons behind this.

My answer to your question is a resounding yes,but only twords the person who commited the henious crime,if there was a book or some other form of organized teachings that led to the sneaker murder then yes again,but your comparison does not hold water because nowhere is there an organization of people that openly support this type of crime,the same cant be said for the muslim religon.

Something none of you who are defending muslims are refusing to acknowlege is this,there is a book that teaches this behavior,there is a book that demands this type of behavior,of all the books of religon being used today this is the only religon where the "under penealty of death" clauses are being used on a daily basis.