Another savage shows his true colors.

[highfihoney]

Wow- that's one hell of a lot of hatred and ignorance for a religion that you clearly no absolutely nothing about. First of all, Islam technically never existed until the 7th century AD... clearly not BC times. Secondly, it is the 2nd largest religion in the world and is growing. Thirdly, if you actually took the time out to study and read about the religion you'll know that it is generally peaceful and that 95% of its members follow these.

First off, Do you even read what you write before you post it?

Im well aware that the muslim religon is the 2nd largest religon,were talking about several million people,then you post that 95% of them are decent people,that leaves the other 5% as blood thirsty savages.

So were only talking about 5% of several million members being savages,that makes it all better

Secondly,im pretty sure you know what i meant by BC,just incase you dont i used it as an example of them living in the dark ages.

All the history lessons about other religons are irrelavant,if their doing it today lets talk about it,if not..............

 

[aberkowitz]

I suppose it doesn't matter that the Islamic doctrine, as laid out in the Koran, specifically devalues a woman's life and lays out the code by which she can be treated as chattel. We have to respect that, right, because it's a religion?

The Old Testament also technically says that you can be put to death if you work on the Sabbath, that you can sell your daughter into slavery, and that homosexuality is a sin.... however I know plenty of Christian and Jewish people who don't live their lives by these standards.

Labeling an entire group of people based on what is written in a book that they follow is just a silly way to judge them. There are ultra-militant groups of every religion, but we only concentrate on one of them because people are afraid of what is unfamiliar.

I guarantee you that if a group of militant Christians flew several planes into buildings in the name of God that Christianity wouldn't be reviled in this country the way Islam is.

 

[aberkowitz]

First off, Do you even read what you write before you post it?

Im well aware that the muslim religon is the 2nd largest religon,were talking about several million people,then you post that 95% of them are decent people,that leaves the other 5% as blood thirsty savages.

So were only talking about 5% of several million members being savages,that makes it all better

Secondly,im pretty sure you know what i meant by BC,just incase you dont i used it as an example of them living in the dark ages.

All the history lessons about other religons are irrelavant,if their doing it today lets talk about it,if not..............

In the early 20th century the KKK consisted of 4-5 million men as well. Would you use those people to describe the attitude of the entire US? Or how about all of Christianity?

 

[highfihoney]

First off, I'm not a liberal. Never have been, never will be.

Finally, I really hope you're not a teacher because I want to make sure my future children never go near somebody so closed minded.

Im not a teacher but my wife is

Your right about catholics being pedophiles & you know what,they suck too,but were talking about apples & oranges here,the catholic religon does not sanction pedophilia nor does it have sects that openly pratice it.

The holocoust,whats next for a comparison slavery

 

[highfihoney]

In the early 20th century the KKK consisted of 4-5 million men as well. Would you use those people to describe the attitude of the entire US? Or how about all of Christianity?

Now your going on about the KKK,pretty soon you'll be out of past examples,still waiting on a present day example.

 

[aberkowitz]

Sorry- need to get back to work now. Will pick this up in the morning.

 

[furrycute]

Fanaticism/fundamentalism exists in every world religion, including Islam and Christianity. And there is a fundamental link between ignorance (lack of education) and religious fanaticism.

A large segment of the world's muslims are poverty stricken, they cannot afford an education that will open up their eyes and minds to a world far different from what is traditionally depicted in their age old religious texts.


Weren't the Christians just as barbaric as the Muslims in the Middle Ages? And dare I that suggest Muslims of that age were more civilized than their Christian contemporaries (the witch hunts, the burning at the stake, etc.). Later on the plight of the Christian masses only improved because the West pioneered the Industrial Revolution. Thus affording the common Christian the opportunity to gain at least a rudimentary education to counter some of the more harmful fundamentalist teachings of the Church.

Although there is always going to be a segment of any population that will remain as religious fundamentalists no matter their educational level and socio-economic status.


The masses of the world's Muslims still live in impoverished conditions. Thus we cannot blame an entire religion for the ills perpetrated by a few. We should pin the blame on poverty, lack of access to education, and thus ultimately ignorance, as the culprits behind those ills.



Although I do admit I am at a loss as to how to explain the situation in some of the wealthier oil producing countries in the Middle East.

 

[Johnd]

Whilst I agree with much of your post furrycute, the two terms are not interchangeable. All funadamentalists are not fanatics.

 

[highfihoney]

Poverty & ignorance are no excuse for the basic understanding that all people should be treated with respect & dignity,not murder & slavery.As long as people make excuses for them they will never come into our century.

You dont need an education or money in your pocket to understand its fundamentally & morally wrong to kill your daughter because she wont dress the way you demand her to.

Savages lack morals not education.

 

[furrycute]

Okay, sorry, I shouldn't equate fundamentalists with fanatics. My mistake. It's just a habit of mine, intellectual laziness sometimes I guess.



Now that I think about it, highfihoney, I guess you are right. It is the lack of morals. Weren't most of the slave owners in this country landed gentry, who were very well educated? And the majority of those, in this country, not too long ago, who favored Jim Crow laws, weren't they also really well educated intellectuals and professionals? And remember, they were also Christians.

 

[Sheep]

I smell another 3 digit thread...

SheepStar

 

[highfihoney]

Okay, sorry, I shouldn't equate fundamentalists with fanatics. My mistake. It's just a habit of mine, intellectual laziness sometimes I guess.



Now that I think about it, highfihoney, I guess you are right. It is the lack of morals. Weren't most of the slave owners in this country landed gentry, who were very well educated? And the majority of those, in this country, not too long ago, who favored Jim Crow laws, weren't they also really well educated intellectuals and professionals? And remember, they were also Christians.

As to what education level they had i cant speak but their lack of morals is obvious i'd say.

 

[Davemcc]

The Old Testament also technically says that you can be put to death if you work on the Sabbath, that you can sell your daughter into slavery, and that homosexuality is a sin.... however I know plenty of Christian and Jewish people who don't live their lives by these standards.

Labeling an entire group of people based on what is written in a book that they follow is just a silly way to judge them. There are ultra-militant groups of every religion, but we only concentrate on one of them because people are afraid of what is unfamiliar.

I guarantee you that if a group of militant Christians flew several planes into buildings in the name of God that Christianity wouldn't be reviled in this country the way Islam is.

Yes, Christianity and Judaism have become hallmarks of civilization. In Christianity's case, from following the new testament and the teachings of Jesus which, if I understand this correctly, supersede the Old Testament as a new covenant between God and man. In Judaism's case, they are civilized because they are the "chosen people" and not subject to the covenant with the Gentiles.

Islam is unique in that all Muslims are instructed to follow the teachings of the Koran literally, at all times. This includes working to impose Sharia Law on any nation in which they reside. Sharia Law includes subverting the domestic government to the religious authority of the clerics and subjugating women to their middle ages role of chattel. These are not long forgotten and rarely enforced dictates. There are over a billion Muslims who control the national governments of several large states, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, et alia.

In all these cases without fail, the religion by decree dominates politics, law, culture, morality and common sense in the relations between individuals. I dismiss your argument and suggest that a billion people who choose to live, kill, torture, maim and die by following the dictates of the book in its most literal sense must be judged by the book, their adherence to the book and their actions relative to the dictates of the book.

Sometimes, crime is the isolated activity of an individual. Other times, it is a microcosm of a cultural or societal mindset, an action that defines the paradigm of a civilization. We must be smart enough to know which is which.

 

[aberkowitz]

Yes, Christianity and Judaism have become hallmarks of civilization. In Christianity's case, from following the new testament and the teachings of Jesus which, if I understand this correctly, supersede the Old Testament as a new covenant between God and man. In Judaism's case, they are civilized because they are the "chosen people" and not subject to the covenant with the Gentiles.

Islam is unique in that all Muslims are instructed to follow the teachings of the Koran literally, at all times. This includes working to impose Sharia Law on any nation in which they reside. Sharia Law includes subverting the domestic government to the religious authority of the clerics and subjugating women to their middle ages role of chattel. These are not long forgotten and rarely enforced dictates. There are over a billion Muslims who control the national governments of several large states, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, et alia.

In all these cases without fail, the religion by decree dominates politics, law, culture, morality and common sense in the relations between individuals. I dismiss your argument and suggest that a billion people who choose to live, kill, torture, maim and die by following the dictates of the book in its most literal sense must be judged by the book, their adherence to the book and their actions relative to the dictates of the book.

Sometimes, crime is the isolated activity of an individual. Other times, it is a microcosm of a cultural or societal mindset, an action that defines the paradigm of a civilization. We must be smart enough to know which is which.

I'm only going to follow up and ask if you know any Muslims? I've probably met hundreds through my educational experience, my world travels, and my work experiences. I've never met one who had the desire to kill, torture, or maim me. There are a billion muslims in the world, almost all of whom do not wish to hurt anybody else. Maybe you should head out into the world and meet people before you dismiss them as savages and knock their beliefs.

 

[aberkowitz]

I smell another 3 digit thread...

SheepStar

I don't disagree. My biggest issue with this thread, however, is the fact that the OP wrote what amounts to racist comments. He/she has labeled an entire race as animals. I GUARANTEE you that if this was the case of an African-American who committed such a crime and somebody came on this board and used the words "savage" or "animal" that the post would be removed within minutes and the user banned with these boards as per the rules that the moderators have laid out. Why is that not the case here?

I love to debate (as anybody on these boards can see), and maybe I take these issues too seriously sometimes, but I have no desire to take part in what I consider a racist discussion. The rest of you can enjoy conversing with David Duke (the original poster), I will be off to discuss DVD players for now.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

We have to respect that, right, because it's a religion?

There is not, nor will there ever be, any belief that I respect "because it is religion".

 

[Johnd]

The rest of you can enjoy conversing with David Duke (the original poster)

Ouch.

Just a tip abe. Some here (as in the rest of the world) are not well-versed in the art of forensic debate, philosophy or logic. Cast aside the ad hominems and meddling banter, and stick to the issue. The infantile meddling will cease (or at least you will have succeeded in ignoring it), and you will also succeed in stating your point plainly and concisely.

I too disagree with highfihoney that this casts a looming shadow over all Muslims and Islam. Only the simple (and this in no way directed at highfi (or anyone else here)...he is clearly well-educated in certain things) cannot see that this is a crime that out to be prosecuted. Their beliefs do not make them evil. This act does not make a large percentage of Muslims evil...it makes the perp (if found guilty) a criminal worthy of the full breadth of the punishments available. Should the perp use Islam as an excuse or a defense at his trial...that I would consider newsworthy and a good candidate for discussion.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

All the history lessons about other religons are irrelavant,if their doing it today lets talk about it,if not..............

How about the Christians who have recently been showing up at soldier's funerals saying that they deserved to die as "punishment for the US tolerating gays"? How about Catholic priests raping children entrusted to their care (and being allowed to remain in the church and out of jail)?

 

[Johnd]

There is not, nor will there ever be, any belief that I respect "because it is religion".

Not American, are you? That's ok. Foreigners have a right to the beliefs too. Freedom of religion is a constitutional right here in the US. BTW, the term "freedom of" is a far-reaching phrase. Check yourself.

 

[Johnd]

How about the Christians who have recently been showing up at soldier's funerals saying that they deserved to die as "punishment for the US tolerating gays"? How about Catholic priests raping children entrusted to their care (and being allowed to remain in the church and out of jail)?

Any new stuff? Those acts (likewise) do not comment on all Christians or all Catholic priests. Geeeesh.