AMT vs Dome Tweeters

[OscarJr]

Good point, I actually intended to have a third option in the pole, "depends on implementation" but I forgot and the site won't let me edit the pole.

Of course it depends to some degree, I'm sure there are good and bad examples of both types but what I was wondering is, from a technical standpoint, is one type was technically superior to the other? If not, what are the strengths and weaknesses of each type (again, from a technical standpoint)?

With extension to 30khz and beyond extension has to be one of the strenghts of AMTs.

It sounds like dispersion (evenness and width) is still a strength of domes?

Here ya go, some info I had compiled:

AMT Folder

 

[KEW]

I vote for 3) All of the above.

A great speaker is a great speaker.

At the end of the day when you are listening to music or watching a movie or TV show, great sound is great sound.

It doesn't matter if it's dome, ribbon, AMT, Al, Mg, Ti, Be, Diamond, direct-radiating, bipolar, passive or active design.

If you have a large room, it is also important to have great output/dynamics and sensitivity.

What is the best speaker you have heard that uses a soft dome tweeter?
I have yet to hear one that rivals hard domes or ribbons, but I certainly have not heard everything.
The best "pedigree" I have been exposed to is the RBH 61lse which uses the Status Acoustics drivers (scanspeak tweeter) and it just did not capture the metallic sound of guitar strings the way decent metal dome speakers do (though most Al tweeters I have heard had problems with breakup distortion).

 

[shadyJ]

I vote for 3) All of the above.

A great speaker is a great speaker.

At the end of the day when you are listening to music or watching a movie or TV show, great sound is great sound.

It doesn't matter if it's dome, ribbon, AMT, Al, Mg, Ti, Be, Diamond, direct-radiating, bipolar, passive or active design.

If you have a large room, it is also important to have great output/dynamics and sensitivity.

Agreed, I have heard outstanding speakers using all kinds of different transducer technologies, not just tweeters. My advice is do not get hung up on buzzwords. Measurements and end performance are more important than any specific technology used.

 

[slipperybidness]

Agreed, I have heard outstanding speakers using all kinds of different transducer technologies, not just tweeters. My advice is do not get hung up on buzzwords. Measurements and end performance are more important than any specific technology used.

But, how can we impress our friends and coworkers if we don't get caught up with buzzwords???

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What is the best speaker you have heard that uses a soft dome tweeter?
I have yet to hear one that rivals hard domes or ribbons, but I certainly have not heard everything.
The best "pedigree" I have been exposed to is the RBH 61lse which uses the Status Acoustics drivers (scanspeak tweeter) and it just did not capture the metallic sound of guitar strings the way decent metal dome speakers do (though most Al tweeters I have heard had problems with breakup distortion).

The best speaker I have heard is the RBH T2. Period. Compared to EVERYTHING I have owned and heard, the RBH T2 has the best/most clarity, detail, resolution. I have never heard better clarity, detail, and resolution than the T2.

That's the reason I decided to sell Salon2, 802 D2, KEF 201/2, Philharmonic 3, and I'm trying to sell the excellent Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1.

But again, everyone is different. Period.

We could all listen to every single speaker in the world and still have different opinions as to which ones we think sound the "BEST".

Another thing is that we don't listen to the SAME SONGS either. But I think even if we all do listen to the same exact song on the same exact system with the same exact 1,000 speakers, we would still all have different opinions as to which speaker sounds the best.

I have compared Salon2 vs 802 D2 vs KEF 201/2 vs Orion 3.2.1 vs Phil3 vs RBH T2, among others.

My OPINION is that ONE driver NEVER makes the speaker.

The salient thing is QUALITY, DESIGN, and IMPLEMENTATION.

Sure you could have a poor quality, poor design, or poor implementation of AMT or Ribbon or Metal Dome or Silk Dome, etc.

Do I think the ScanSpeak or Silk/Soft Dome sounds better than all the other drivers? Absolutely NOT. I don't think it's ONE particular type of driver. It is the quality, design, and implementation.

I think the RBH T2 would still sound best to ME if it were Al, Mg, Ti, Be, Diamond.

 

[nickwin]

What is the best speaker you have heard that uses a soft dome tweeter?
I have yet to hear one that rivals hard domes or ribbons, but I certainly have not heard everything.
The best "pedigree" I have been exposed to is the RBH 61lse which uses the Status Acoustics drivers (scanspeak tweeter) and it just did not capture the metallic sound of guitar strings the way decent metal dome speakers do (though most Al tweeters I have heard had problems with breakup distortion).

When I hear hard dome vs soft dome I think metal vs silk (or other fabric), is this the correct usage?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I hear hard dome vs soft dome I think metal vs silk (or other fabric), is this the correct usage?

That's how I see it.

Silk/fabric vs Aluminum/Magnesium/Titanium/Beryllium/Diamond.

 

[KEW]

The best speaker I have heard is the RBH T2. Period. Compared to EVERYTHING I have owned and heard, the RBH T2 has the best/most clarity, detail, resolution. I have never heard better clarity, detail, and resolution than the T2.

That's the reason I decided to sell Salon2, 802 D2, KEF 201/2, Philharmonic 3, and I'm trying to sell the excellent Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1.

But again, everyone is different. Period.

We could all listen to every single speaker in the world and still have different opinions as to which ones we think sound the "BEST".

Another thing is that we don't listen to the SAME SONGS either. But I think even if we all do listen to the same exact song on the same exact system with the same exact 1,000 speakers, we would still all have different opinions as to which speaker sounds the best.

I have compared Salon2 vs 802 D2 vs KEF 201/2 vs Orion 3.2.1 vs Phil3 vs RBH T2, among others.

My OPINION is that ONE driver NEVER makes the speaker.

The salient thing is QUALITY, DESIGN, and IMPLEMENTATION.

Sure you could have a poor quality, poor design, or poor implementation of AMT or Ribbon or Metal Dome or Silk Dome, etc.

Do I think the ScanSpeak or Silk/Soft Dome sounds better than all the other drivers? Absolutely NOT. I don't think it's ONE particular type of driver. It is the quality, design, and implementation.

I think the RBH T2 would still sound best to ME if it were Al, Mg, Ti, Be, Diamond.

Thanks for your response. I will have to get in a listen to the T2 sometime to see if it captures the metalic string sound of the overtones from chimes. There are not many generalities I can make, but based on my limited experiences, this difference between soft and hard domes is one that has stayed true, but I would like to be proven wrong.

As far as everyone has their own sound. I am sure there is some truth, but I bet the vast majority like and appreciate well design speakers and would like your T2's.
Toole/Harmon Labs established that we all generally agree on what good sound is some years ago!

 

[KEW]

When I hear hard dome vs soft dome I think metal vs silk (or other fabric), is this the correct usage?

Yeah, that is pretty much it. I believe most plastic based domes also fall into the soft category. I don't know how common they are , but the ones I have seen were somewhat pliable (like polyethylene).

I could add that while I have heard some truly offensive hard dome tweeters (especially in the '70's when Al was being brought into the mainstream), I have never heard a soft dome tweeter that seriously offended me!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for your response. I will have to get in a listen to the T2 sometime to see if it captures the metalic string sound of the overtones from chimes. There are not many generalities I can make, but based on my limited experiences, this difference between soft and hard domes is one that has stayed true, but I would like to be proven wrong.

As far as everyone has their own sound. I am sure there is some truth, but I bet the vast majority like and appreciate well design speakers and would like your T2's.
Toole/Harmon Labs established that we all generally agree on what good sound is some years ago!

You need to compare the speakers side by side and change speakers within seconds, not hours. Definitely not from memory as to which one captures the metallic string sound better.

And there's a huge difference between everyone agreeing that the speakers sound great vs which speaker sounds BEST.

If you ask 10 people to rank 10 speakers, you'll get 10 different answers.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

You need to compare the speakers side by side and change speakers within seconds, not hours. Definitely not from memory as to which one captures the metallic string sound better.

And there's a huge difference between everyone agreeing that the speakers sound great vs which speaker sounds BEST.

If you ask 10 people to rank 10 speakers, you'll get 10 different answers.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

You need to compare the speakers side by side and change speakers within seconds, not hours. Definitely not from memory as to which one captures the metallic string sound better.

As you probably realize, I am much a believer of A-B'ing speakers. I always try to compare speakers when reviewing one. It gives a point of reference and with teh instant switch I use, it is very easy to recognize and double-check the differences. However, IME thus far, the difference between a metal and soft dome has been obvious enough that that is not necessary. Perhaps it is because I spend so much time playing with big bands (I hear the difference in the sound of a trumpet or trombone, but I think it is easier to relate to more people as the sound of metal guitar strings which also capture the difference). Among the soft-dome tweeters I have heard, Cymbals generally do fine on soft dome, Triangles lose a lot of "shimmer" and the fullness/harmonics (overtones) of symphonic chimes will really differentiate between them!

And there's a huge difference between everyone agreeing that the speakers sound great vs which speaker sounds BEST.

Agreed!

If you ask 10 people to rank 10 speakers, you'll get 10 different answers.

What basis do you have for this statement?
I'd certainly expect that if just asking on a random basis.
However, IIRC, Harman Labs has done such experiments, and there were clear consistencies among participant preferences.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As you probably realize, I am much a believer of A-B'ing speakers. I always try to compare speakers when reviewing one. It gives a point of reference and with teh instant switch I use, it is very easy to recognize and double-check the differences. However, IME thus far, the difference between a metal and soft dome has been obvious enough that that is not necessary. Perhaps it is because I spend so much time playing with big bands (I hear the difference in the sound of a trumpet or trombone, but I think it is easier to relate to more people as the sound of metal guitar strings which also capture the difference). Among the soft-dome tweeters I have heard, Cymbals generally do fine on soft dome, Triangles lose a lot of "shimmer" and the fullness/harmonics (overtones) of symphonic chimes will really differentiate between them!



Agreed!


What basis do you have for this statement?
I'd certainly expect that if just asking on a random basis.
However, IIRC, Harman Labs has done such experiments, and there were clear consistencies among participant preferences.

What I mean is, if you asked 10 people to rank 10 speakers, they would rank the speakers in different order.

For example, NOT all 10 people would rank Orion #1, Salon2 #2, KEF 201/2 #3, Phil3 #4, 802D2 #5, etc, in the exact same order.

I've had people over my house to audition the speakers. They all ranked the speakers in different order.

Some actually ranked the 802D2 #1. Some ranked Salon2 #1. Some ranked Orion #1.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I play piano and my brother plays guitar. So I am intimately familiar with the sound of his guitar and my piano.

I have been listening to the BD of Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds. I was trying to listen mostly to the guitar and some piano.

I cannot imagine anything sounding more detailed and crystal clear than what I am hearing from the T2.

And others will rightly feel the same about their systems.

 

[Funnychap]

We seem to be witnessing a trend where AMT tweeters seem to be overtaking traditional domes as the go-to consumer speaker high frequency driver. In my limited experience with AMTs (Emotiva Airmotiv 4s and Legacy Studio HTs) they sound very good, but not necessarily better.

I have heard that AMTs are much easier to implement and they are certainly "trendy" right now with consumers. This makes we wonder, are they really better or is this mostly a cost cutting/marketing decision? What are the pro's and con's in terms of performance?

I love thin-film tweeters (ATM, ribbon, planar).
After 22 years in the hobby since 2000 with dome tweeters, I auditioned Wisdom Audio P4m/P4i speakers (with planar ribbon tweeters) at $2,500/$2,000 each. I loved the vocalists and cymbals on it even more than the $90k-$300k Wilson Audio speakers that have dome tweeters (their dome sounds more powerful probably because of the $20k/each-60k/each monoblock amps (by Burmester or Dan Agostino) but they didn't sound better for vocalists and cymbals). I didn't want to spend that much on the Wisdom but I now had a goal (sound quality that I liked).

I discovered that the $950 each GoldenEars BRX with the ATM ribbon tweeters sounded the same as the $2500/each Wisdom Audio at 75% less. And so my search for speakers ended because it matched my goal (the sound quality I heard with the Wisdom Audio).
-----------
Ideally I would get floorstanding speakers by GoldenEar Triton Reference or T66 or One.R, with the awesome AMT ribbon tweeters.

I have a mixed setup (home theater 7.2.4) with an Arcam AVR5 receiver and a 150in 6x9 projector pulldown screen that's 11' wide x 6' high. Even movies sound better with the GoldenEar BRX speakers with their AMT ribbon tweeter.

I upgraded my front L and R speakers to the GoldenEar BRX (with AMT ribbon tweeter) (I was searching for short 12in tall bookspeakers). Wow, clear, live, airy, gives me goosebumps, and adding the subwoofers did not cover up the treble/vocalists, the biggest soundstage.
I now hear so many vocalists taking in breaths before they sing (before I could only hear a few), I can hear things that are really low in volume and more instruments (especially cymbals), different performers moving around on the stage when listening to broadway musical soundtracks.
The best bass at 40Hz. The speakers disappeared so I felt the singers in the room.
Elvis Presley's vibrato has never sounded so live until now.

I liked my new pair of GoldenEar BRX speakers for music so I was curious if it would improve my old center channel speaker (like how the new BRX improved the L/R speakers for movies).

So today I hooked up the BRX to the center channel...and wow. There were high notes missing with my old speaker!
So I bought a 3rd GoldenEar BRX to replace my center channel speaker.
----
What's amazing is that previously I bought better RCA cables/interconnects by Worlds Best Cables (mogami wire and Neutrik plugs) from Amazon but I did not hear an improvement with my old speakers (titanium dome tweeters with neodymium magnets, 91 db sensitivity).

Amazon.com

But now I do hear an improvement with the GoldenEars BRX in the high notes, female vocalists, cymbals, bigger soundstage, and more airy.

So I've ordered speaker cables from Amazon by Worlds Best Cable with Mogami 3082 wire. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P9WDTGY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

source=Apple Music (hires lossless, and spatial audio surround music) and Denafrips Ares II 12th dac (R2R technology for 3D live/realistic sound).