Amp recommendation for $75K system

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Pre-amp? LOL.... it does no amplification, nothing? Why does it have 12 speaker outputs? And why does it need to have all that monster electronics inside if its only a pro-amp?
those are line level balanced I/O's not speaker connectors.
 
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PaulF

Audioholic
Wow, I'm not used to looking at 4 digit power specs. Some of their amps look similar to other lines. I bet all amps come out of about four factories now.
 
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PaulF

Audioholic
Those are some nice specs on the Belles, too bad they don't have balanced inputs. I want the flexibility just in case, you never know when a little hum is going to strike.

Funny how the front panels look like some Pass Labs models but without the meters.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Those are some nice specs on the Belles, too bad they don't have balanced inputs. I want the flexibility just in case, you never know when a little hum is going to strike.

Funny how the front panels look like some Pass Labs models but without the meters.
These don't come from an OEM. David Belles handbuilds all his amps. These amps are not mass produced. I believe they are mostly build to order.
That's the guy who bought my Belles one. I did abuse that amp for 25 years and it looked and sounded just like the day I bought it. The powercord is the only thing that looked old on it.
http://www.hwdsound.com/Amplifiers/amplifiers.htm
Here is one more for you before I turn in, look familiar or what.
http://www.abamps.com/amplifiers.html#600-6
 
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V

VladP

Audioholic Intern
As good as the Emo amps are, the Denon IMO is still a better performer as it should be considering the asking price. However, I would definately take the Emo XPA-s over the Sherbourns.
Are you saying that Denon is better than the Emotiva XPA-1 monoblock?
 
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PaulF

Audioholic
If you multiply the XPA-2 price by five to get 10 channels, then the Emo price would be approaching the Denon street price. However you can't get there if considering the XPA-5.

I would be interested to know what Gene meant by "No, the XPA-2 doesn’t treat my music with the kid gloves that my much more expensive $7k Denon POA-A1HDCI amplifier is able to do..."

After all the XPA-2 was given a five bar performance rating.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
I've never in my life seen a rear of an AMP look like this...

Enough option??? Jeez! This has to be the top of the line on every level....
Yep, but it's only a preamp, not an amp.

If you put the matching amp on top of this preamp (or more appropriately on the bottom), you're just a hair short of 20 inches high!
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
Pre-amp? LOL.... it does no amplification, nothing? Why does it have 12 speaker outputs? And why does it need to have all that monster electronics inside if its only a pro-amp?
LOL. It's the Denon AVP-A1HDCI surround and video processor.

These 12 connectors are the XLR balanced outputs (actualy 10, the 2 other ones are the input ones).

And it's not any kind of pre/amp, it's THEE ONE.
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
If you multiply the XPA-2 price by five to get 10 channels, then the Emo price would be approaching the Denon street price. However you can't get there if considering the XPA-5.

I would be interested to know what Gene meant by "No, the XPA-2 doesn’t treat my music with the kid gloves that my much more expensive $7k Denon POA-A1HDCI amplifier is able to do..."

After all the XPA-2 was given a five bar performance rating.
Paul, you still need 5 power plate inlets, but then some people don't mind at all.

Me too, I like to know Gene's take on this: five XPA-2 vs POA-A1HDCI.

Kids glove = refinement.

So, no refinement from the XPA-2? Gene?

PaulF, your surround speakers are the B&W CWM 8180 (monopoles).

Your name is not Krammer by any chance at the Shack?

My emoticon problem is old history now, problem solved.

Cheers,

Bob

P.S. By the way, you are looking only for the power amp(s), right?
Or do you want me to build you the perfect $75,000 system, including the video portion? If you do, I need some room dimensions, in cubic feet.
But I believe that you were only requesting about alternatives to the Denon POA-A1HDCI multichannel power amp, right? Yep, you did.
 
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VladP

Audioholic Intern
How about five XPA-1 vs POA-A1HDCI?:D
XPA-1 and XPA-2 measure quite differently and XPA-1 appears to be significantly better in the measurements department.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/520-a-secrets-power-amplifier-review.html?showall=1
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/496-a-secrets-power-amplifier-review.html

I wish Gene would post measurements that can be compared with other typically posted measurements (THD vs Power; THD vs frequency at low and high power graphs), but it does not look like denon is better than XPA-1 (denon does look better than XPA-2 if we assume that the differences in THD between 0.02 and 0.002 can be audible).
 
Lordoftherings

Lordoftherings

Banned
How about five XPA-1 vs POA-A1HDCI?:D
Yeah! But about those two rear surrounds?

And don't forget too, that with the POA-A1 you can bi-amp your three front speakers, and still have anough amps for the remaining four surround speakers.

Also, with the appearance of the new audyssey DSX, Denon knew what they were doing. There are so many nice possibilities for different system configurations here.

* But, about this: three XPA-1 for your three front mains, and four XPA-2 for the remaining eight channels (two side surrounds, two rear surrounds, two front wide channels and two front height channels).*

Option 1. The POA-A1 list for $7,500, but the street price is more like about $5,500 or so.

Option 2. Three XPA-1 is $3,000, and four XPA-2 is $3,200. Total list is $6,200, but I'm sure that you can make a deal with Emotiva for about $5,500 or so.

Now, with option 1, you have ten power amps for a 7.3-channel (with three SVS PB13-Ultra subs) system configuration with the three front mains in a bi-amp mode. Or a 10.3-channel system configuration with one power amp per channel, plus two front wide and two front height channels (the rear surround becomes only one channel, unfortunately).

Or with option 1, you can get an Emotiva XPA-1 for the front center channel, and then you have enough power amps with the POA-A1 to power all the remaining ten channels. But now the price adds $1,000.

With option 2, you are setup pretty good in my book. You have the power where it counts the most. And with a good deal from Emotiva (special sale or a discount of 20% from buying seven of their power amp products in a one time shot), you keep your total just below the $5,000 mark.


There are so many other possibilities too with other brand of amplifiers (like getting two 7-channel power amps (total = 14 channels), using six of these to bi-amp your three front mains, and you still have eight left for all the other channels.

Now, have fun assembling a system configuration with any type of power amplifiers (from any manufacturers), but try to power all these eleven channels, and remain below the $5,000 mark (street price of course).

OK, I know that some people will object on a eleven-channel system, but this is the new reality and it is here in the now. So, get a grip!

Then, the new system for the year 2009, is a 11.3-channel system configuration, period! And three subwoofers, for sure, no less (two on the two front corners preferably and the third one in the rear center of the room).
And lets forget shakers under the seats for just now (or they remain add-ons at the discretion of individuals).

So, to recap: 11.3-channel, but only to power the 11 main speakers for less than $5,000 street.

Cheers,

Bob

Note: For another matter, I just read early this morning about "The Missing Link", the 47 million years old ancestor of the Audioholic (look carefully, he's dancing and gesturing with his hands as if was playing a piano, and that long tail, seems to be a power cord). Or it could be that he is sitting at the piano, who knows? Quite interesting indeed. Here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090519-missing-link-found.html
 
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PaulF

Audioholic
XPA-1 and XPA-2 measure quite differently and XPA-1 appears to be significantly better in the measurements department.
Yeah, I would buy the XPA-2 and XPA-5 in a heartbeat if they measured like the XPA-1, but then who would buy the XPA-1? More than two boxes is just too impractical for me. I suggested to Lonnie that Emo come out with an audiophile grade multi-channel amp. I would not mind spending another $500 given what their competition costs.

I can get a good deal on the Anthem amps so have been considering them... but Anthem tells me the P5 uses 340W at idle. Add the P2 and you're probably at 450W. Not very friendly on the electric bill. All other models are 150W or less so that makes the A series more appealing from that aspect. I don't really need the power of the P series anyway.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Thats one of the reasons I went with Class D, I have both a D-Sonic and a Wyred4Sound.... there are skeptics of the Class D's, but I have nothing but love for them... More then ample power for my needs in a nice small package. And they consume extremely small amounts of power on idle..

Adding my D2v to my Wyred amp through Balanced connections has made things even sweeter for me. My previous pioneer receiver was handing off a buzz/ground loop to the tweeters.... Now its gone and dead silent.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Nice! Any more details about these? List price? Weight? Internals? Parts used?
I use 2 of these 1100A bridged when I use my two 15" Isobaric Subs which I don't have room for right now. This company has been around for many years. I am sure you're familiar with these Amps just with a different face plate. They are an OEM for quiet a few Highend Power Amp companies. I figure this way, it's always good to go streight to the source. These amps kick. For the money they're hard to beat. Anybody with a weak heart you have to warn ahead of time because they might catch the big one. The way to run these is 220 volt. Cranking them they need 5800 watts and 110 volts don't do these amps any justice. I recently had my Cinepro changed to 220 volt and it seems like I got twice the amp now. The flow of energy seems to come easy.
http://www.abamps.com/productarchive.html#1100a
 
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