Amp power.

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zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Speaker specs:
* Impedance: 4 Ohms
* Frequency Response: 33Hz - 32kHz
* Sensitivity: (1 watt @ 3' ) 87dB
* Tweeter: 1" Pure titanium, dome utilizing D-Link Isolation mounting
* Woofers: Dual 6.25" polypropylene cone
/composite cast basket / butyl rubber surround
* Power Range: 110 - 180 Watts
* Crossover Frequency: 2500kHz
* Dimensions: (HxWxD) 37.4"x 8.9"x 12"

I purchased my current amp based on the amps spec to provide 175w@4ohm. It does a great job. When the clip indicators start to flicker, I can tell the speakers are at their limit as well. Or, are they?

After spending many years with them, they are what I like. For mids and tweets, they are the end all for me.

I have since purchased a third set for 2-channel, and am going to take my time researching for the components. Pretty sure I am going 2.1/2.2, but that thread is for later. Right now, I am focusing on powering these guys.

There is no doubt they tax an amp. Was considering tubes, but I am certain these guys are very hard to drive. Have read may professional opinions on what tubes like, along with the fact it takes more information than the simple specs above. I have enough real-world time with these guys to know they are not resistive.

Now for my question. The speakers recommend 110-180. Would you think that's a 8ohm spec, seeing as how amps usually give an 8ohm rating? I know I can put plenty more on them, but keep in mind, I have a heavy trigger finger.:D

I have always assumed the 110-180 went with the 4ohm spec. These days, I am feeling more like it is what it looks like. A shopping guideline.
 
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walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Sometimes I passive bi-amp my center http://www.sourcespeaker.com/CC-4.html which is rated at 220 watts with my Cinepro (350 watts 8 ohms- 500 watts 4 ohms) and I cook my system at around 115-120db and never a problem. I know this doesn't answer your question but I had to post this in anyway.

 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
If the manufacturer spec says 110-180W and the nominal impedance is 4 ohms then it is reasonable to assume they meant 110-180W into 4 ohms. If you want to be sure you would have to ask the manufacturer.

Removal the straps would typically result in the LF, MF/HF crossovers being separated so if you biwire with one amp, the amp will still see the same equivalent impedance. If you biamp passively then each amp will be presented with different impedance characteristics of the LF and MF/HF crossover networks. Not necessarily lower or higher by much, just different. You cannot apply the series and parellel circuit theories in a simplistic way, due to the fact that the impedance varies with frequencies and each crossover is connected to a different amp.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
PENG said:
If the manufacturer spec says 110-180W and the nominal impedance is 4 ohms then it is reasonable to assume they meant 110-180W into 4 ohms. If you want to be sure you would have to ask the manufacturer.

Removal the straps would typically result in the LF, MF/HF crossovers being separated so if you biwire with one amp, the amp will still see the same equivalent impedance. If you biamp passively then each amp will be presented with different impedance characteristics of the LF and MF/HF crossover networks. Not necessarily lower or higher by much, just different. You cannot apply the series and parellel circuit theories in a simplistic way, due to the fact that the impedance varies with frequencies and each crossover is connected to a different amp.
Click to expand...
So what about passive bi-amping with a four channel amp compared to a two channel? Or, one 2-channel on each side?

And what about overshooting the power? I have always had the belief to hang around the upper limits of the speaker specs when shopping. This way when an amp begins to clip, as mine does, I know that's it. If I were to push a more powerful amp towards clipping, and above the speakers specified limit, I am of the belief that driver failure will occur.

I understand that if I get a more powerful amp, I will not be clipping at the speakers limit. But I know me. One too many beers when the mood is right, and:eek:.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
zumbo said:
So what about passive bi-amping with a four channel amp compared to a two channel? Or, one 2-channel on each side?
Click to expand...
To biamp your L & R speakers you need 4 channels so either a 4 channel amp or one 2 channel on each side, or 4 monoblocks. If you use amps that are not identical, it may be better to use the more powerful ones for the LF and the more accurate ones (lower distortion, better S/N etc.) for the HF.

Read this if you have time, there are many good reads out there but this one is quite good.

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

And what about overshooting the power? I have always had the belief to hang around the upper limits of the speaker specs when shopping. This way when an amp begins to clip, as mine does, I know that's it. If I were to push a more powerful amp towards clipping, and above the speakers specified limit, I am of the belief that driver failure will occur.
Click to expand...
I prefer to use use amps rated for the upper limit of the speakers or at least 50% higher. My Adcom has clipping warning lights but I have never seen them on and I am happy, but I don't drink.:D

I understand that if I get a more powerful amp, I will not be clipping at the speakers limit. But I know me. One too many beers when the mood is right, and:eek:.
Click to expand...
What can I say?:D
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
PENG said:
To biamp your L & R speakers you need 4 channels so either a 4 channel amp or one 2 channel on each side, or 4 monoblocks.
Click to expand...
zumbo said:
So what about passive bi-amping with a four channel amp compared to a two channel? Or, one 2-channel on each side?
Click to expand...
I meant compared to just a 2-channel.;)

Let me break down my above question.

Option 1) 2-channel amp.

Option 2) 4-channel amp.

Option 3) (2) 2-channel amps.

Any benefit either way, considering somewhat equal total power.

PENG said:
I prefer to use use amps rated for the upper limit of the speakers or at least 50% higher. My Adcom has clipping warning lights but I have never seen them on and I am happy, but I don't drink.:D
Click to expand...
My Adcom has the clip indicators, and I light-it-up (l/r)in 2-channel.

In surround, I will still light-up (l/r), and sometimes the center as well.

This is why I am studying so carefully. I certainly don't want to damage the new set by overdoing it. As you may know, they are not made anymore.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
zumbo said:
What happens to the load when the straps are removed from the speaker terminals?

In other words, what if I get a four channel amp? Hook two channels to each speaker. Does the amp see 8ohm on each channel? Generally speaking of coarse.

Should I still follow the 110-180?

Thinking:
http://classicaudioparts.com/store/ATI-AT1804-Four-Channel-x-180-Watt-Amplifier-B-Stock-%28120V%29.html
Click to expand...
One amp will power the tweeter, which takes minimal power and the other the woofers. You will gain nothing of significance.

Your speakers seem a pretty standard 2.5 way ot may be MTM. What are they?

I think you could use a more powerful amp, if these are clipping your current amp. I would recommend you look at the Quad 909, which is a really robust and sweet sounding amp without any temperament. It will give you 250 watts per channel into those speakers.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
TLS Guy said:
One amp will power the tweeter, which takes minimal power and the other the woofers. You will gain nothing of significance.

Your speakers seem a pretty standard 2.5 way ot may be MTM. What are they?
Click to expand...
MB Quart 830
I know the top mid and tweeter are together, and the bottom mid shares some frequencies with the top, and digs down a little more.
http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html

TLS Guy said:
I think you could use a more powerful amp, if these are clipping your current amp. I would recommend you look at the Quad 909, which is a really robust and sweet sounding amp without any temperament. It will give you 250 watts per channel into those speakers.
Click to expand...
This will be a whole new 2-channel rig in a much smaller room that will be treated. It's my drum room.

I just read an article about tube amps, and the article recommended current dumping amps for tough loads.;) Can I get the Quad 909 online?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
zumbo said:
MB Quart 830
I know the top mid and tweeter are together, and the bottom mid shares some frequencies with the top, and digs down a little more.
http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html



This will be a whole new 2-channel rig in a much smaller room that will be treated. It's my drum room.

I just read an article about tube amps, and the article recommended current dumping amps for tough loads.;) Can I get them online?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can get them on line if there is no authorized Quad dealer in your area.

I can put you in touch with a reliable dealer who can sell to you on line. The 909 comes up on Audiogon now and again. There is a demo unit for sale now.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
TLS Guy said:
If you run two, you will gain nothing by passive biamping, as one amp will only deliver a couple of watts supplying the tweeter. You can't bridge as the impedance of your speakers is too low.
Click to expand...
Not bridging. Passive bi-amping.

The tweeter and one mid are together.

The other mid is separate.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
zumbo said:
Probably a little much, but I could do two of these for 90+90 each side:
http://classicaudioparts.com/store/ATI-AT602-Two-Channel-x-60-Watt-Amplifier-B-Stock-120V.html
Click to expand...
Forget about using four amps. That is a total waste of money and will get you nowhere. That solution will give you 62 watts per side. A good amp of around 250 watts per channel will be optimal. The Quad 909 in unconditionally stable into all loads, and a fabulous performer. They are very reliable as well.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
zumbo said:
Not bridging. Passive bi-amping.

The tweeter and one mid are together.

The other mid is separate.
Click to expand...
Those speakers are a standard MTM and the woofers are in parallel. So one side of the crossover will drive the tweeter and the other the woofers.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
TLS Guy said:
Forget about using four amps. That is a total waste of money and will get you nowhere. That solution will give you 62 watts per side. A good amp of around 250 watts per channel will be optimal. The Quad 909 in unconditionally stable into all loads, and a fabulous performer. They are very reliable as well.
Click to expand...
Not four amps, two.

It's less money.

It would be 180w per side. The speakers are 4ohm.

http://www.ati-amp.com/manuals/powerampspecs.pdf

http://classicaudioparts.com/store/ATI-AT602-Two-Channel-x-60-Watt-Amplifier-B-Stock-120V.html
 
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