American "Neoimperialism"

The Numenorian

The Numenorian

Junior Audioholic
Hello all, this is a musing of mine while sitting here at work with nothing to do. This is something that I have taken time to think about and work out in my head...and is definately speculative and not easily proved without much personal observation and prior knowledge. I am an American citizen, and a proud one, for the most part. I know a considerable amount of US history, and know that the US has a tradition of taking advantage of others while assuming the role of protector, leader of the free world, and self-proclaiming itself as "the best country."

Well, here's the hard, bitter truth. Look at the graphs on this page:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/views_on_countriesregions_bt/114.php?nid=&id=&pnt=114&lb=btvoc

Notice how the US is seen as having a future of negative influence on world affairs. I propose that the reasons for this aren't too hard to grasp- they're simple enough to the common man, and especially to people living in developing and underdeveloped countries.

-The US uses, as of 1998, 40% of all world oil consumed in 24 hours.
-It uses 23% each of natural oil and coal in the same period.

(http://energy.cr.usgs.gov/energy/stats_ctry/Stat1.html)

However, the US has only 300,000,000 citizens. This means that we, only 4.5% of the world's population (est. 6.6 Bil @ May11 2006) use up around 30% of the world's energy. You may be familiar with the 80/20 rule, which is applicable to many situations in society and economics. It states that the upper 20% of a group produces or contains about 80% of the group's wealth or product. It also states that the remaining 80% produces or contains only 20% of the group's total product or wealth. Obviously, the US is part of a group of countries in the "upper crust." We are part of the 20%, and the rest of the developed countries of the world make up the rest of it. However, the US is in the cream of the crop group- we are the 20% within the 20%- around 4%. This lines up well with the statistics on the graphs in the second linked page.

If you are familiar with Hamiltonian economics, or Keynesian economics, you will know all about the trickle-down effect. This states that the principle strength of an economic system will be determined by the group's upper class, which has wealth that flows down the rungs of the class ladder until it satisfies the most basic needs of the poor. Now, socialism tries to even this out, but it eventually ends up in a similar state of things in which a small percentage of ultra wealthy hoard the wealth and no trickle-down occurs. Consider this carefully. The US does indeed participate in a worldwide trickle-down, with aid to foreign nations and trade. However, ever since the end of WWII, the state of the US loans to other nations has been flipped on its head. Whereas the US was once a loaning nation, providing a source of considerable wealth, the US is now leading the world in debt. This also coincides with the slide in US oil production. The States were once the largest world producer and refiner of oil. Obviously, the Arab nations of the world and many in S. America have usurped this role. One look at the above stats can tell you what is wrong with America, and how this all ties in to world and domestic economics. 40% of world oil use daily, almost all imported. Just as good ole Bush said, "America is addicted to oil." And when it comes down to it, without considerable economic and social change, the US is setting itself up for a collapse...and the "20%" that controls the oil, the big oil companies and the Eastern monarchs, who profit extravagantly from their sales, won't let the US slip through their fingers without a fight.

Recall the Cuban missile crisis. The military brass wanted to pressure JFK into launching a first-strike and invade Cuba, to prevent missiles from being armed and aimed at US lands. Obviously, doing this would have ignited World War III. JFK had to assert his position as commander in chief of the US military, before his underlings catapulted the world into doomsday. In a similar way, the big oil companies and foreign royalists who depend on profits from US consumption may do all in their power to keep the US in their hands, by either pressuring the White House, or manipulating things on their side. This is American neoimperialism- imperialism out of the sake of necessity. We are addicted to oil, and can't change the status quo until American industry finds new sources for energy.

Herein is part of the cause for the data seen in the first linked page, above, where many foreign nations find the US to be a negative influence on world affairs and would like to see a shift towards European dominance. The comman man of the nations that we are manipulating, like Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Venzuela, and the UAE, will see that their nation is feeding a beast of oil while their own poor become poorer and their rich become richer. Their rigid society with even more rigid morals from the lowest to the highest classes, founded in a strong Islamic tradition that promotes loyalty and continuity, won't let themselves be oppressed for much longer. Eventually, "radicals" (consider Hitler/Nazi party after WWI/Treaty of Versailles) will rise to represent the emotions of their people and make a solvable problem into a world crisis.

A little food for thought...maybe the US needs to reprioritize spending away from "defense" and towards alternative energy sources. Whatever the outcomes, causes, or effects, the situation the US is in right now is precarious and can only worsen. I hope you will all take this into consideration within your own nations, and as we move into a new age of politics where world concerns for humanity will be the new topics of deliberation.
 
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markw

Audioholic Overlord
Now that's funny.

Europe can't get it's own shiite together. Without the US, most, if not all of, of Europe would either be Nazi or behind the Iron Curtian.

But, if the world chooses, have Europe handle Africa. This should be funny since they couldn't even handle that nasty Serbia/Herzogovina (sp?) thing in the ninties with out intervention? Intervention, hell. That was dropped totally on our laps and they walked away.

No, the truth is. like it ot not, the world is in a much better place with us at the helm.

Now, if you were, as you say, a "proud American". you would know this. You're just another cowering left wing liberal trying his hand at anonymous muck raking in a quasi-public forum.
 
The Numenorian

The Numenorian

Junior Audioholic
Liberal? You don't know me. This is the only exception I have regarding my views. I am a conservative, and I believe that it has been handed into America's lap that it should lead the free world, but in an honorable way. Don't dare accuse me of being liberal- my conservative views apply here in that I believe in a moral, upstanding America that doesn't need to abuse its power in order to feed itself with energy and dominance. Now, if you knew anything about my views outside of this, you'd call be a conservative.

DON'T MAKE AD HOMINEM ARGUMENTS WHEN THEY DONT APPLY! I am simply not proud of some of the history that America has made for itself. Ever since the colonial days, we've been taking advantage of others for our own gain. Hell, entire STATES were founded (Pennsylvania, Rhode Island by William Penn/Roger Williams) on the idea that we should treat other peoples (Native Americans) as respectable and civilized by paying them for lands.

Thousands, and I mean thousands, of official government treaties were broken with Native Americans in the nineteenth century. Thousands of innocent, peace loving natives were killed in the name of manifest destiny and American land lust. During American imperialism, in the late 19th century/early 20th century, we seized control of the Philippines, Puerto Rico, portions of China, Cuba, and central American lands. We judicially declared that, even though they were US territories, "justice doesn't follow the flag." We subjected them in order to enforce the Monroe Doctrine and establish ourselves as a viable world power through influence and trade, and then abused them for our own gain by not giving them freedom equal to American citizens.

Us Americans were given a great role after World War II, when Britian stepped down as "world police" and handed the torch over to the US. We were given the opportunity to lead the world into a new age of prosperity and unconditional well being. Yes, the US does good, great things in the world. But are we living up to our potential as the world's most powerful leader? We have been given great responsibility, and must live up to it by doing more than serving ourselves. There's more to the world than America!!! We are part of that world, and we need to do MORE than proclaim ourselves "the greatest nation." Let's not just say it...let's do it! America is strong and powerful...anything we set our minds to can be done. Don't limit America to being an intervention nation. We need to set an EXAMPLE for the world, as the world's democratic leader.
 
F

footman

Junior Audioholic
civil discourse

Numenorian expresses ideas he wishes to discuss. markw name calls and disrespects.
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
The comman man of the nations that we are manipulating, like Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Venzuela, and the UAE, will see that their nation is feeding a beast of oil while their own poor become poorer and their rich become richer. Their rigid society with even more rigid morals from the lowest to the highest classes, founded in a strong Islamic tradition that promotes loyalty and continuity, won't let themselves be oppressed for much longer. Eventually, "radicals" (consider Hitler/Nazi party after WWI/Treaty of Versailles) will rise to represent the emotions of their people and make a solvable problem into a world crisis.
That won't really be a fght against US. We buy the oil, they get the money. If Joe Arabia thinks he is getting the shaft, the problem is not the money supply (The US), the problem is the ruling party that keeps all the money for themselves (In this case, the royal family). Its not like anybody has to work for anything: The oil is in the ground and multinational companies suck it up, refine it, and sell it directly to consumers. There is an entire caste system that does nothing but collect money for nothing and keep it away from the common man.

On top of that: All this 'Anti-American' sentiment is rather silly, somebody gets a bug in their shorts and they post about it on Myspace.jyhad, or make a violent TV protest, or flip over some cars on some roads. I'm mean yes, the US was a bit of an *** at certain times (we've gone to war to sell newspapers), but right now we're global consumers. If you don't want Uncle Sam interfering with your precious isolationist country, don't sell us anything (Learn from Tibet or Nigeria... you couldn't pay us to meddle there).
 
The Numenorian

The Numenorian

Junior Audioholic
Good points! I concur with how the caste system holds wealth in the upper classes. And it hadn't occured to me that countries we trade with are bonded to us like that...that's very true.
 
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Mort Corey

Senior Audioholic
The real day of reckoning will come when the world (in a broad brush term) decides it no longer wants our pieces of worthless paper in trade for their resources or goods.

Mort
 
M

mustang_steve

Senior Audioholic
I have always been a person who is fond of preparing for the worst.

That being said, I do see an oil embargo from either the middle east, or south america to be catastrophic to our economy. A prolonged embargo could cause severe economic harm.

Sad part, I think we would use military force against them, since we never worked towards a viable, publicly feasable form of alternate energy.

Why is solar still uncommon? Because power companies don't like paying the owners of such panels for their excess production, which ends up in their lines, feeding other people. Check it out, you usually need an OK from the power co, before installing a solar grid on a house that is connected to power lines.

Why not more fuel-efficient cars? So far all we have are a handful of models, while the meat of them are gas guzzling SUVs, Trucks, and 400hp wannabe "muscle cars". Why are there so few hybrid fuel vehicles (runs on E85 or gasoline)? Ethanol based fuel is easily producable domestically, and is actually cheaper gallon per gallon than oil....so why not?

Pretty much all I see is just a case of complacency from all sides. Even if it won't happen for 40 years, just get the technology out there, and start implementing it anyways. Having an economy that is dependant on one single product is a recipe for disaster.....some saying about all your eggs in one basket or something... /shrug

Pretty much all power sources and fuel sources have their problems...the key is figuring out which sources have the best ratio of good things versus bad things, and go for it.

After all, the true superpower is a nation that is so solid financially that it can tell any single country to go to hell without having to worry about the economic repercussions.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
The Numenorian said:
However, the US has only 300,000,000 citizens. This means that we, only 4.5% of the world's population (est. 6.6 Bil @ May11 2006) use up around 30% of the world's energy. .

Europe has about a similar population, except that France has tremendous amount of nuclear power, what is their energy consumption?
Just wait until China is in the same boat as we are in economic power and standard of living. I bet they will consume a lot more.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
You have a worthy attempt at political speculation, Nume. The problem is that you're aiming the analysis gun backwards.

Those of you old enough will remember the Black Panthers radical and violent black revolutionary group of the 60's. Within the Panther's creed, popularized by Huey Newton, was the notion that all power flowed from the "barrel of a gun". They really had it right. If you look to the history of civilization, you'll see physical power, and the willingness to use it are what has built strong empires.... not "doing what is right and good". Being a 'do-gooder', an altruist if there really is such a thing, is personally rewarding, but it is a dysfunctional element of cultural survival. You'll hear all the right words from Washington to sate the doubters of the goodness of Democracy. But baby, it's all in the power. Here is a truth. ALL organisms (which, like societies, are but systems of relationships) will do what is in the best interest of that body. This includes every country/political entity that has ever or will ever exist. Otherwise death/demise is swift.

Your notion that the U.S. takes what it wants because it can...including the European conquest of native Americans, and historical imperialism are not somehow befitting of the world's greatest power is somewhat strong on the rhetoric (liberal is the correct connection) and short on the accurate understanding of the "political process".

You are correct that we now suffer insecurity as a nation because of our economic dependence upon other countries (or at least those in power in other countries). But this world has become a very large, single community, with an extremely complex economic engine. Empire destruction is even more complicated in the socio-politico-economic environment of the 21st century. More complicated...and even more dangerous.

EDIT: Now, get back to work and quit being non-productive, Nume! LOL.
 
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Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
markw said:
Europe can't get it's own shiite together. Without the US, most, if not all of, of Europe would either be Nazi or behind the Iron Curtian.

But, if the world chooses, have Europe handle Africa. This should be funny since they couldn't even handle that nasty Serbia/Herzogovina (sp?) thing in the ninties with out intervention? Intervention, hell. That was dropped totally on our laps and they walked away.

No, the truth is. like it ot not, the world is in a much better place with us at the helm.

Now, if you were, as you say, a "proud American". you would know this. You're just another cowering left wing liberal trying his hand at anonymous muck raking in a quasi-public forum.
I couldnt agree more.
 
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Buckeye_Nut

Audioholic Field Marshall
The Numenorian said:
Liberal? You don't know me. This is the only exception I have regarding my views. I am a conservative
You were outed very early in your post when you spoke of the bitter truth. Maybe you're a liberal, and dont even know enough about politics to know the difference.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Sorry you feel that way, you silver tounged devil, you.

footman said:
Numenorian expresses ideas he wishes to discuss. markw name calls and disrespects.
Unfortunately, the truth is hard for you to handle.

While some small, jealous third world countries may want to believe otherwise, no other country is either willing or capable of doing the overall good we have done. As such, we have a right so some benefits. There's no such thing as a free lunch. After all, if we're paying for their welfare we should get something in return.

I don't see other countries jumping at the chance to offer assistance like we do, do you? All I see is them asking us for our money. Even the UN is powerless without us and, FWIW, I'm tired of it's dependence on out money. How about other countries funding it for a while. I'm glad Bolton is our rep there. Maybe we'll finally have a say on how "we " feel about it.

Buy, there are sure a lot of hypocrites lurking here, aren't there? If y'all are so down on this country, then I'm sure there many others willing to take you in. Perhaps even one of those are against our help.

While we're on the subject, how many of you crybaby libs have ever done anything to alleviate your self imposed guilt? Did you give up your cars so as to minimize your taking from the poor, underprivileged OPEC countries? Do you do without electricity for similar reasons? Better yet, have you ever gone on humanitarian missions to other countries to help build schools, hospitals and the like? If not, then you are just a buncha two faced whiners whose only contribution to society is to post anti-American drivel on the internet, just like any selfish, spoiled child could do.

Hmmm... if we're so bad, why are there are so many trying to sneak in here?
 
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Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Rock&Roll Ninja said:
All this 'Anti-American' sentiment is rather silly...If you don't want Uncle Sam interfering with your precious isolationist country, don't sell us anything...
I agree with the logic of the statement, but feel that it's mostly impractical in reality. Many within a variety of countries around the world have 'Anti-American' sentiments but are not and will never be in a position to dictate trade agreements between their country and yours. Polititians on the other hand are...
 
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FLZapped

FLZapped

Audioholic
However, the US has only 300,000,000 citizens. This means that we, only 4.5% of the world's population (est. 6.6 Bil @ May11 2006) use up around 30% of the world's energy.
What's missing here is efficiency of usage based on GNP. Include that and the story has a different balance.

-Bruce
 
Resident Loser

Resident Loser

Senior Audioholic
Re: American neo-imperialism...

...You may want to tone down your rhetoric a bit and crack open a history book or two hundred...

Well prior to American Independence it was Europeans who brought disease and slavery to these shores...Do we as Americans have post-1776 things we should be ashamed of...obviously the answer is a resounding yes...however we didn't invent these things...humanity (if that's even the correct word) is responsible, and in our own decidedly half-@$$ed way have been attempting to undo what we can...

It was the 19th century Zionist movement and Europe's complicity and duplicity that created the problems in the middle-east...Ever hear of the Balfour Document or the Sykes-Picot Agreement?

WWl was a family feud...all those inbred, blue-blooded twits got p!$$ed at each other and stupid @$$e$ that we are got involved...contrary to Washington's sage advice of avoiding "...foreign entanglements..."

What did we do before, during and more importantly after WWll...markw said it earlier, without US, Europe's map would look a might bit different...

So now because we mobilzed and hunkered down for the duration and helped those in need we are the problem?!?!?!? Because we built our post-war economy to be the envy of the world we must somehow apologize? We didn't sit back and act as conquerors or ignore the war's effect and continued privations...ever hear of the Marshall Plan or the Berlin Airlift...and now the Euro-snots revert to a plebian variant of a psuedo-monarchical attitude and treat us as they do...Washington was right.

Envy?...Jealousy?...they all want the trappings of all things American and yet would try to deny us the right to be American...

The whole "pick-and-choose" mindset is most visible in the new-wave of immigration (invasion). This is supposed to be a "melting pot" yet new immigrants refuse to meld...another variant of that typically Euro-centric and/or the decidedly non-American concept of nationalism...read: Balkanization. Oh, I see...yes it's my fault.

Now for the parts I agree with: Should we have learned a lesson from the first oil embargo? D@mn straight...would thirty years of concentrated research into renewable energy sources be making a difference now? Unfortunately things are still in their infancy. What's the problem...in the words of Walt Kelly in Pogo "We have met the enemy and he is us". What's the problem? The filthy lucre...the root of all evil...$$$$$$

We've become fat, dumb and happy at the hands of the corporate swine and the media, if most of us weren't so busy having it all, we might realize that we actually have nothing...it's all hollow, a self-induced illusion of prosperity which can crumble in an instant...

What's the answer?

I don't know, you tell me...

jimHJJ(...maybe some self-control and belt-tightening for a start...)
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
Resident loser, I must respectfully disagree with some of your post's content:

Because we built our post-war economy to be the envy of the world we must somehow apologize?
I've little doubt that envy masquerades as ill feeling, even hatred by some towards America. But 'envy of the world', I hardly think so.

...now the Euro-snots revert to a plebian variant of a psuedo-monarchical attitude and treat us as they do...
Branding all Europeans as Euro-snots makes you just as bad as those you criticise.

Envy?...Jealousy?...they all want the trappings of all things American and yet would try to deny us the right to be American...
What things 'all American' are those that 'all' other countries do not have? Being American is as hollow as, in my own case, being Scottish. Better to be judged by our actions than a word wouldn't you say?

The whole "pick-and-choose" mindset is most visible in the new-wave of immigration (invasion). This is supposed to be a "melting pot" yet new immigrants refuse to meld...another variant of that typically Euro-centric and/or the decidedly non-American concept of nationalism...
Britain (for example) has its own immigrants. Do you think their entry is without friction? There are plenty of people here who think just as you do. Substitution of the word Britain for American in your text would be equally valid to them.
 
Resident Loser

Resident Loser

Senior Audioholic
Well...

Buckle-meister said:
Resident loser, I must respectfully disagree with some of your post's content:

I've little doubt that envy masquerades as ill feeling, even hatred by some towards America. But 'envy of the world', I hardly think so.
Then we are at variance...please remember I said our "...post-war economy..."

Buckle-meister said:
Branding all Europeans as Euro-snots makes you just as bad as those you criticise.
Had I wished to brand all Europeans I wouldn't have used the term Euro-snots...perhaps saying French and German would have been less rankling...

Buckle-meister said:
What things 'all American' are those that 'all' other countries do not have?
I mean the Japanese who want to be cowboys...the Brits who want to be Elvis...the French who want to be Black jazz-masters...the youths who want Levis...there are more examples I'm sure...if the Amercian model wasn't there, then what...The excesses that are typically American are coveted and yet we are castigated when we exhibit them...

Buckle-meister said:
Britain (for example) has its own immigrants. Do you think their entry is without friction? There are plenty of people here who think just as you do. Substitution of the word Britain for American in your text would be equally valid to them.
Immigrants always encounter friction...up 'til recently that friction was eventually overcome to some degree by a melding...this is sadly no longer the case...and the salient word from my quote was left out: Balkanization...when you pass the statue, I'll thank you to leave you nationalistic baggage at the door...

jimHJJ(...Have a good weekend...)
 
The Numenorian

The Numenorian

Junior Audioholic
God save us, I've spawned a beast!

Anyways, there have been some very good points brought up here.

First and foremost, I'd like to remind you that my original post was poorly documented, not very thorough, speculative, and somewhat rushed. Plus, my boss was sneaking around the corner the other day.

I'll say this one last time- I'm a conservative. If you knew half of my opinions on other topics such as abortion, gay rights, etc, you'd know that without question. Don't judge a book by its cover.

Anyway, I'd like to see some non-American responses (like the guy from Scotland) on this issue. Let's try and keep cool heads...don't take general rhetoric personally, please. One thing that makes my argument slightly invalid is the fact that I'm American, and I was acting as a pessimist. We need outside (non US) opinions (which is why I originally linked to some outside studies on world opinion) so that we can get more a more thorough evaluation of the status quo. I, myself didn't look at the big picture, but with issues like this, we shouldn't split hairs over evidence that isn't fully documented, or topics that haven't fleshed out completely.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Well, when you post a slanted article like that you should expect some response.

Actually, I'd prefer that my wife looked like Jessica Alba but reality dictates otherwise.

What I find laughable about that slanted article is that it shows France as the chosen ruler of the world.

Is that the same France that is having serious problem meeting it's bills due to it's extremely high unemployment rate and low worker productivity that it can't pay for their own government's socialist policies?

Is this the same France that toook a harder line than the US against Iran's nuclear capabilities?

Is this the same France that just put down several weeks off riots by the disenfranchised unemployed?

Is this the same France that can't keep the cover on the Ivory Coast in Africa?

Is this the same France that handed us Viet Nam? ...and the list goes on and on.

Why do they show "Europe, France and Germany as three separate entities? Shouldn't it be either one or two?

What, exactly, IS that "Europe", anyway? Is that economic entity that makes up the EU? ..or is it that geographic entity that stretches from just across the water from England to Russia?

If you want responses from non-Americians you might do better trying to find a forum with this freedom that's hosted from a country besides the US of A.

Can't? Well, maybe that should tell you something right there.
 
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