All channels driven ratings

D

demoncamber

Audioholic Intern
Probably best not to use those until you get them up high.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The surprisingly work pretty well, when you turn them off and on with atmos you def tell a difference.
 
E

EBN

Audioholic Intern
My guess is that the dealer, or the tester himself/herself don't want to take of risk of damaging the unit. I don't blame them, because I wouldn't want to torture test my own gear so I would not do it to other people's.

I don't trust that site though, the way they showed the results do not inspire confidence. For more reliable results, I would stick with Audioholics.com and Audiosciencereview.com.
True. This is the first site i see doing 9channel ACD tests though. :) As people are often thinking how much it will drop from 7ch to 9ch, well 9x50w for SR6013 / X4500H. There is also some intresting picks like Arcam AVR550 which isn´t cheap. When tried to measure power for 4ohm load it went in to protection, for one channel it showed 65w. Reading few other forums i noticed NAD V758 V3 and this Arcam model shutting down when listening loud with higher end B&W speakers that drop around 3.5-4ohm. You don´t hear that happening with D&M / Yamaha receivers.:rolleyes: High price to pay for Dirac Live and lacklustre performance, but this is what we get with todays receivers. Lot of features which leads to compromises being made with internal components. I hope we get to see these measured by ASR soon. Nad and Anthem were disappointments.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
True. This is the first site i see doing 9channel ACD tests though. :) As people are often thinking how much it will drop from 7ch to 9ch, well 9x50w for SR6013 / X4500H. There is also some intresting picks like Arcam AVR550 which isn´t cheap. When tried to measure power for 4ohm load it went in to protection, for one channel it showed 65w. Reading few other forums i noticed NAD V758 V3 and this Arcam model shutting down when listening loud with higher end B&W speakers that drop around 3.5-4ohm. You don´t hear that happening with D&M / Yamaha receivers.:rolleyes: High price to pay for Dirac Live and lacklustre performance, but this is what we get with todays receivers. Lot of features which leads to compromises being made with internal components. I hope we get to see these measured by ASR soon. Nad and Anthem were disappointments.
Measurements for 9X50W is not very useful, though I agree it is good to have.
For comparison purposes:
- We don't know if it is just the difference between how the unit's protection system operate.
- One that did 9X50W, but 2X150W, 3X135W may be better than another one that did 9X70W, but 2X90W, 3X80W for real world use.

In the old days, some 7.1 AVRs managed very high output into 2 channels (like 150 to 180 W) but would drop to 50 or even 35 W into 5 or 7 channels yet some of those weighed 40 to over 50 lbs, indicated very strong power supplies were used, so the lower ACD results were likely due to the way the protection system operated and if so, it would not be a negative when used for movies and music contents.

I don't trust that site in terms of consistency and accuracy. I would feel more comfortable if I know what kind of test instrument, methodology they use, and the credential of the reviewer/technician.

NAD and Anthem both made excellent integrated amps and power amps. I think it is hard for them to compete in receivers because they don't have to volume. Popular brands like D+M, Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer and Onkyo sell enough to get them huge discounts on parts and can probably support a larger/better R&D, QA teams.
 
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E

EBN

Audioholic Intern
In the old days, some 7.1 AVRs managed very high output into 2 channels (like 150 to 180 W) but would drop to 50 or even 35 W into 5 or 7 channels yet some of those weighed 40 to over 50 lbs, indicated very strong power supplies were used, so the lower ACD results were likely due to the way the protection system operated and if so, it would not be a negative when used for movies and music contents.
This is still valid for Yamaha receivers these days. :) Example RX-A2070 from 100w to 40w (5ch -> 7ch) while 2channels is 167w 8ohm 0,1% THD and 215w for 4ohm 0,1% THD. So clearly some current limiting by the protection system. People then get too caught up in these and some have picked other brand without understanding that on real world material Yamaha performs similar to other brands. With real world material there is no 2hour constant all channel loading for the receiver and people often have 1 or 2 powered subwoofers which takes heavy load off from receiver. I mean it´s nice to read these, but how much weight we can really put on these?


 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
True. This is the first site i see doing 9channel ACD tests though. :) As people are often thinking how much it will drop from 7ch to 9ch, well 9x50w for SR6013 / X4500H. There is also some intresting picks like Arcam AVR550 which isn´t cheap. When tried to measure power for 4ohm load it went in to protection, for one channel it showed 65w. Reading few other forums i noticed NAD V758 V3 and this Arcam model shutting down when listening loud with higher end B&W speakers that drop around 3.5-4ohm. You don´t hear that happening with D&M / Yamaha receivers.:rolleyes: High price to pay for Dirac Live and lacklustre performance, but this is what we get with todays receivers. Lot of features which leads to compromises being made with internal components. I hope we get to see these measured by ASR soon. Nad and Anthem were disappointments.
Where did you get info stating that the SR6013 will only supply 9 X 50w? In the specs on their site, Marantz specilfy that their receiver will guarantee 70% of rated 110w for ACD. That would be 77 watts, wouldn't it?
 
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EBN

Audioholic Intern
Where did you get info stating that the SR6013 will only supply 9 X 50w? In the specs on their site, Marantz specilfy that their receiver will guarantee 75% of rated 110w for ACD. That would be 77 watts, wouldn't it?
Here, use google translator. The measurements are at bottom.
 
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D

demoncamber

Audioholic Intern
Here's Denon's response for my x2400h
"Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting Denon Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

Regarding your concern, output doesn't change based on how many speakers you are using. It will still be 95 watts per channel. The reason for that, there is a separate amplifier board for each channel that is why no power is being shared.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Warm regards,
Denon NA"
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's Denon's response for my x2400h
"Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting Denon Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

Regarding your concern, output doesn't change based on how many speakers you are using. It will still be 95 watts per channel. The reason for that, there is a separate amplifier board for each channel that is why no power is being shared.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Warm regards,
Denon NA"
Customer service can be wrong. Of course it has lower output if the same sine wave is applied to all the speakers simultaneously.....that's just not a normal situation.
 
E

EBN

Audioholic Intern
Customer service can be wrong. Of course it has lower output if the same sine wave is applied to all the speakers simultaneously.....that's just not a normal situation.
It´s friday! He must have smoked few bumps at work already.. :rolleyes: Kinda reminds me when i tried to ask something special from Sony about receiver. Lady answered me and she got it wrong, but she copy pasted me something from the spec sheet. Waste of time. Never again!
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
Here's Denon's response for my x2400h
"Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting Denon Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

Regarding your concern, output doesn't change based on how many speakers you are using. It will still be 95 watts per channel. The reason for that, there is a separate amplifier board for each channel that is why no power is being shared.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Warm regards,
Denon NA"
What the Denon rep told you is complete bullshit! :rolleyes:
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
It´s friday! He must have smoked few bumps at work already.. :rolleyes: Kinda reminds me when i tried to ask something special from Sony about receiver. Lady answered me and she got it wrong, but she copy pasted me something from the spec sheet. Waste of time. Never again!
More likely just normal crappy corporate customer service....
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Here's Denon's response for my x2400h
"Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting Denon Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

Regarding your concern, output doesn't change based on how many speakers you are using. It will still be 95 watts per channel. The reason for that, there is a separate amplifier board for each channel that is why no power is being shared.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Warm regards,
Denon NA"

Yeah that's not right. IHO I would not hang my hat on ACD tests. All ACD tests do is reveal how consrvative the AVR company is in terms of protection. The more conservative the company such as Yamaha, the lower the ACD power output. However Yamaha (top 3 models, bests most if not all AVR (top 3 equivalent MSRP price) in 2 channel power delivery tests .
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's Denon's response for my x2400h
"Hello Nicholas,

Thank you for contacting Denon Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

Regarding your concern, output doesn't change based on how many speakers you are using. It will still be 95 watts per channel. The reason for that, there is a separate amplifier board for each channel that is why no power is being shared.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Warm regards,
Denon NA"
Well, yes and no. 2 channel driven may have the same power output in each channel both driven same time. But, as you add more channels to drive, as stated above, simultaneously, power starts to drop.
Perhaps the agent would have had a different answer for all channels driven. Or not, but then ask for evidence specs.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I thought it was funny lol
What exactly was your question for them?
It is possible that they literally mean there are 7 amplifiers, one for each channel, as they said: not shared... So that's what they meant by X Watts regardless of how many speakers are connected.

You need to ask them like "What is the maximum output per channel when all 7 channels are driven simultaneously into an 8 ohm load, or something like that?.. Then there would be less guess work on their potential response.

The following bench test results should give you some rough ideas:

S&V measured the AVR-X1200W:

5 channels continuously driven, 8 ohm loads 69.9W/78W 0.1%/1.0% THD
7 channels continuously driven, 8 ohm loads 47.4W/57.9W 0.1%/1.0% THD

Audiovision.de measured the AVR-X2400H:

154 W X 2 into 4 ohms

88 W X 2 into 6 ohms (this seems low, likely a typo, it was 128 W X 2 for the X2600H and 100 W X 2 for the X2500H measured by the same magazine)

98 W X 5 into 4 ohms

80 W X 5 into 6 ohms

73 W X7 into 4 ohms

60 W X 7 into 6 ohms

No THD specified, I would assume 1%.
 
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D

demoncamber

Audioholic Intern
What exactly was your question for them?
It is possible that they literally mean there are 7 amplifiers, one for each channel, as they said: not shared... So that's what they meant by X Watts regardless of how many speakers are connected.

You need to ask them like "What is the maximum output per channel when all 7 channels are driven simultaneously into an 8 ohm load, or something like that?.. Then there would be less guess work on their potential response.
I asked this
" Hello, the manual states "95 W + 95 W (8 O/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)" but what I'm looking for is how many watts per channel when all 7 channels are driven? I'm guessing it's around 60 watts?
Thanks! "

Hmm so that's interesting, the 1200 is 80wpc and it does 7 channels continuously driven, 8 ohm loads 47.4W/57.9W 0.1%/1.0% THD

so mine is 95wpc so it should be around 50 something watts then?
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
I asked this
" Hello, the manual states "95 W + 95 W (8 O/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)" but what I'm looking for is how many watts per channel when all 7 channels are driven? I'm guessing it's around 60 watts?
Thanks! "
You did a good job, but for those guys the key word "simultaneously" might have been needed..:D:D
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Measurements for 9X50W is not very useful, though I agree it is good to have.
For comparison purposes:
- We don't know if it is just the difference between how the unit's protection system operate.
- One that did 9X50W, but 2X150W, 3X135W may be better than another one that did 9X70W, but 2X90W, 3X80W for real world use.

In the old days, some 7.1 AVRs managed very high output into 2 channels (like 150 to 180 W) but would drop to 50 or even 35 W into 5 or 7 channels yet some of those weighed 40 to over 50 lbs, indicated very strong power supplies were used, so the lower ACD results were likely due to the way the protection system operated and if so, it would not be a negative when used for movies and music contents.

I don't trust that site in terms of consistency and accuracy. I would feel more comfortable if I know what kind of test instrument, methodology they use, and the credential of the reviewer/technician.

NAD and Anthem both made excellent integrated amps and power amps. I think it is hard for them to compete in receivers because they don't have to volume. Popular brands like D+M, Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer and Onkyo sell enough to get them huge discounts on parts and can probably support a larger/better R&D, QA teams.
1 key point about NAD & Anthem...
Neither brand has their own production facility so they must outsource for mass production, which puts 1 more markup in the overall pricing formula..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 

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