Alex Jones Infowars lawsuit

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dlaloum

Full Audioholic
Jones is a billionaire???

Tucker must get away with it because he tells a kernel of truth.
As I recall FOX and Tucker testified in court, that they are not a News provider, but an entertainment provider, and that "no reasonable person" would believe what he said, and that it was pure entertainment.

I do point this out repeatedly to some right wing people I know who like to quote or post links to Tucker/Fox stuff... - by their own sworn testimony, there is no truth there.
 
D

dlaloum

Full Audioholic
Btw, when I saw 'the fine should fit the crime' that includes civil cases. Faux getting sued for a billion makes sense. It's this massive corporation. Jones I'd be surprised he's worth anywhere near billions.
What is the situation in US law about pursuing assets distributed among various shell companies?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
What is the situation in US law about pursuing assets distributed among various shell companies?
Good question. I'd like to know that as well.

Also, how do US bankruptcy laws affect these lawsuit awards for compensatory damages?

Paging @Mr._Clark
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Good question. I'd like to know that as well.

Also, how do US bankruptcy laws affect these lawsuit awards for compensatory damages?

Paging @Mr._Clark
This gets complicated and it is not my area of practice. Bankruptcy law is exceptionally arcane; a dark art of sorts. My limited experience is that judges in bankruptcy cases have significant discretion to decide issues so it's difficult to predict a specific outcome.

Basically, Jones will have a difficult time avoiding liability using shell companies and other such strategies.

The NY Times has a fairly decent overview:

>>>It is impossible to say where things are headed so early in what could be a yearslong process, given Mr. Jones’s vow to appeal the damages verdict, and an ongoing bankruptcy fight involving Free Speech Systems, Infowars’ parent company. But a few potential scenarios are possible, legal and financial experts said.<<<


Nevertheless, with this much money at stake, Jones will have plenty of incentive to fight in court for a very long time (assuming he really is worth something like $270 million).

The following blog posts cover some of the shenanigans in the bankruptcy case:



I nominate Burning Down the House by the Talking Heads as the theme song for Jones's bankruptcy case.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This gets complicated and it is not my area of practice. Bankruptcy law is exceptionally arcane; a dark art of sorts. My limited experience is that judges in bankruptcy cases have significant discretion to decide issues so it's difficult to predict a specific outcome.
Thanks.

I must point out that back during the dark days of the pandemic, I tackled various arcane subjects like killer & helper T-cell immunology and RNA virus biology, even though those 'dark arts' weren't directly in my wheelhouse ;). OK, perhaps they weren't quite so arcane as bankruptcy law seems to be :oops:.

I also knew that no one would know if I said something wrong :rolleyes:.
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks.

I must point out that back during the dark days of the pandemic, I tackled various arcane subjects like killer & helper T-cell immunology and RNA virus biology, even though those 'dark arts' weren't directly in my wheelhouse ;). OK, perhaps they weren't quite so arcane as bankruptcy law seems to be :oops:.

I also knew that no one would know if I said something wrong :rolleyes:.
Okay, okay, you talked me into it. I will now demonstrate that I really am not a bankruptcy lawyer ;)

A major issue will be whether or not the damages can be discharged:

>>>A looming question over the Free Speech Systems bankruptcy is whether damages stemming out of defamation judgments can be discharged. If a judge finds the verdict can’t be discharged, that could have a “dramatic effect on whether the Debtor is able to successfully navigate and then exit the bankruptcy process,” said Rosenberg.

Fourth Circuit precedent allows a bankruptcy court to prevent a small business debtor from discharging debts incurred through “willful and malicious injury,” Cyganowski said. However, Free Speech Systems’ case is in Texas. The US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, which includes Texas, has not addressed the matter.

There’s also a question of whether “willful and malicious injury,” can be proven since the Connecticut judgment didn’t result from a trial on the merits, Grassgreen said. Instead, Jones was found liable for defamation under default judgment after he failed to respond to discovery.<<<


With regards to discharge, my prediction is no. I doubt that a court would want to reward Jones for a default judgement (this is just my initial reaction to the issue).

As a practical matter, financial issues will probably become a major factor at some point. I'd guess that all or almost all of the lawyers representing the families are working on a contingency basis. Even if they want to keep fighting, it becomes difficult to continue litigation over a long period of time when you're not getting paid. In contrast, Jones has an incentive to burn the money in litigation because he won't get to keep it anyway if he loses.

Another side note on bankruptcy. One of the reasons it tends to be specialized is because the payments to the bankruptcy lawyers are determined by the court. At first blush this might sound wonderful, but the court can decide well into a case that it paid the lawyers too much previously and the court can "claw back" the fees that had been paid. It's entirely possible to put in many hours on a case, get paid, then have the court order the money to be paid back to the bankruptcy estate.

I realize that visions of lawyers getting screwed financially are unlikely to elicit much sympathy, but it is a factor that weighs against practicing in this area.

Perhaps it's time for a warm fuzzy bedtime story about Jones's lawyers getting screwed?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Hahahahahahaha!
It must break your heart that Alex Jones has to face some consequences for his vile lies over the years, knowingly causing the parents and the rest of the family pain and further harm.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
It must break your heart that Alex Jones has to face some consequences for his vile lies over the years, knowingly causing the parents and the rest of the family pain and further harm.
I think it's the amount of the verdict, not the verdict.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Now that the election is mostly over, our old friend, Alex Jones is back in the news. After that enormous ruling last month of $965 million for compensatory damages, Jones was slapped with an additional $473 million in punitive damages.

That's $1.4 billion in damages. Those are Power Ball numbers.

 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
In addition to the prior Free Speech Systems bankruptcy, Jones filed another bankruptcy today. This was apparently a personal bankruptcy filing.

It looks like he's expanding the shell game strategy of moving assets around to avoid the judgements.

Black's Law Dictionary defines this as "a giant cluster F." (yes, that was an incredibly lame attempt at humor)

>>>WASHINGTON — The Infowars fabulist Alex Jones filed for Chapter 11 personal bankruptcy Friday in the Southern District of Texas in Houston, citing nearly $1.5 billion in damages juries awarded this year to the families of Sandy Hook shooting victims, who won a series of defamation cases against Mr. Jones after he lied for years about the school shooting on his radio and online show.<<<


This earlier article discusses the investigatin by the bankruptcy trustee in the earlier bankruptcy:

>>>A judge has ordered the bankruptcy trustee in the case to investigate the intra-family and other dealings that could hurt creditor payout. Future court rulings could wreak havoc on Jones’ quest to use bankruptcy to limit his liabilities.

The investigation “is a major inflection point in this bankruptcy case that will put the debtor on its heels and highlights that the Court is taking seriously the concerns of creditors,” said Nicholas Koffroth, a bankruptcy attorney with Fox Rothschild LLP.

Findings of fraud, dishonesty, incompetence, or gross mismanagement could result in removal of Jones’ control over the assets, a liquidation order, or dismissal of the bankruptcy case, said Donald L. Swanson, a bankruptcy attorney and shareholder at Koley Jessen.<<<


Apparently, the sales of his supplements increased significantly after the Sandy Hook verdicts. Call me crazy, but his appearance doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in his expertise with regards to health and fitness.

Jones.PNG


It is bizarre that so many people apparently believe almost everything this guy says, and also buy almost everything he sells.
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
One of Jone's lawyers (Pattis) was just suspended from practicing law. The sheer incompetence of Pattis is mind-boggling. When the list of violations starts with Rule 1.1 (Competence) you know it's not going to go well.

>>>Connecticut Superior Court Judge Barbara Bellis suspended Pattis for his failure to protect the Connecticut plaintiffs’ personal records along with a mountain of other discovery from the case, leading to the infamous confrontation when Texas attorney Mark Bankston revealed to Jones that his lawyer Andino Reynal had sent over the entire contents of Jones’s phone. . . .
Which brings us to yesterday, when Judge Bellis dropped the hammer on Pattis.

First she reminded him that he’d already gotten dinged during discovery for “cavalier actions and willful misconduct” when he improperly disclosed the plaintiffs’ personal records during a motion to depose Hillary Clinton. She went on to hold that Pattis violated several Rules of Professional Conduct, including, Rule 1.1 Competence, Rule 1.15 Safekeeping Property, Rule 3.4 Fairness to Opposing Party and Counsel, Rule 5.1 Responsibilities of Partners, Managers, and Supervising Lawyers, and Rule 8.4 Misconduct.<<<


>>>Pattis has vowed to appeal. But in the meantime, he’s representing Proud Boy Joe Biggs who faces trial next week in DC on charges of seditious conspiracy for his actions on January 6, 2021. Be there, will be wild.<<<

Offhand I rather doubt that he'll be allowed to represent Biggs in DC given his suspension in Connecticut, but I have not reviewed the DC rules covering this situation. On the other hand, if you're the DOJ why in the world would want to disqualify Pattis? Bring on the buffoon squad! (that's a joke of sorts, in reality the DOJ probably wouldn't want to risk a mistrial).
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Offhand I rather doubt that he'll [Pattis] be allowed to represent Biggs in DC given his suspension in Connecticut, but I have not reviewed the DC rules covering this situation. On the other hand, if you're the DOJ why in the world would want to disqualify Pattis? Bring on the buffoon squad! (that's a joke of sorts, in reality the DOJ probably wouldn't want to risk a mistrial).
"Bring on the buffoon squad!" sounds like it's the motto of Alex Jones and his entire defense team. Perhaps the entire gang of defendants from January 6th should adapt the same motto. They should be tried & represented by their peers.

Is this team of experienced courtroom litigators still available?
1673085039492.png
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Offhand I rather doubt that he'll be allowed to represent Biggs in DC given his suspension in Connecticut, but I have not reviewed the DC rules covering this situation. On the other hand, if you're the DOJ why in the world would want to disqualify Pattis? Bring on the buffoon squad! (that's a joke of sorts, in reality the DOJ probably wouldn't want to risk a mistrial).
Pattis is trying to convince the judge in the Proud Boys case to allow him to appear in that case. Unless the reciprocity agreement is not strictly construed, I don't see how the judge in the Proud Boys case can allow him to appear.

>>>The suspension took effect late Thursday when Bellis issued her order and was immediately effective in the federal courts in Washington, which have a reciprocity agreement with Connecticut concerning lawyer discipline. Pattis spent part of Monday trying to convince the Washington court that is presiding over the seditious conspiracy trial of Biggs and four other Proud Boys to postpone the suspension.

No decision had been reached Monday afternoon. The sedition trial is set to begin this week.<<<

 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
If memory serves me, I believe the Judge in the Proud Boys or the other gang who is up for trial told the defendant to get another lawyer as his was suspended. I further think that Proud Boy was given only a day or so, perhaps the weekend, to get that new lawyer.
Interesting indeed.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
If memory serves me, I believe the Judge in the Proud Boys or the other gang who is up for trial told the defendant to get another lawyer as his was suspended. I further think that Proud Boy was given only a day or so, perhaps the weekend, to get that new lawyer.
Interesting indeed.
There are other lawyers representing Biggs (the Proud Boy). Naturally, Pattis says he's the attorney of choice:

>>>Pattis said that while Biggs has other attorneys in the case, Pattis is his "counsel of choice." . . . U.S. District Judge Timothy Kelly has not yet ruled on Pattis' request to participate in Biggs' trial, according to court records.<<<

 
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