Advice on 2.1 setup for music: budget ~1500$US

[lovinthehd]

@lovinthehd

Oh I'm totally sold on the SVS Subs ... even without listening to them ... ... After reading review after review of all the SVS subs, I didnt need an audition to buy one.
I have currently ordered the SB-2000 and should get it in a day or two (Hopefully it doesnt dissapoint me).
I'll post the first impressions here once I get it.

But with speakers, its a different thing cause I've had speakers in the past that had very sharp tweeter that would give me a fatigue after extended listening. So thats why I dont want to gamble on speakers I can't actually listen to first.

What's the gamble with a free at home trial for 45 days?

The SB2000 should be a good performer, no doubt, but it also has the 45 day free trial if you end up not liking it....or did you buy from other than SVS?

 

[sr2002]

I bought it through Amazon sold by Electronics Expo, which is listed on the SVS website as being an authorized distributer. So I'm assuming SVS will honor the 45 day trial and the 5 year warranty

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you'd probably still need to go thru the seller, just looked at the Electronics Expo site and the ad for the sub indicates only a 14 day money back guarantee so you might want to check on how SVS does or doesn't extend the "bill of rights" thing. I try not to assume, doesn't always work out.

 

[sr2002]

Good point! I'll have a chat with SVS tomorrow to see if they will honor it. As I have a plan to upgrade to the Ultra sub in a year anyway! ..

But that apart, the sub is fullfilled by Amazon and so if I'm not wrong, it has a 30-day return policy.

My local dealer is supposed to get the B&Ws tomorrow evening, I can't wait to listen to them. He claimed those were the cheapest speakers he current has in thee shop .. lol so I dunno what else he has got .. I'll find out soon.

As for the Amplifier, I recently also stumbled upon the Yamaha RX-A550 and the RX-A850 from the Aventage lineup. The A550 seems like a good cheap starter option to me and seems to have enough power to push the likes of 685s. I liked the A850 as well, be instead of spending 900$ish on that I am thinking of waiting an getting something from Rotel or Arcam (either a receiver or Amp + DAC separates).

Would love to hear you alls thoughts on the Yamahas I mentioned in comparison to Marantz suggestions from earlier

 

[KenM10759]

Where are you located sr2002? I'm confused why you'd buy though Amazon with a 30 day return (free?) when SVS direct gets you a 45 day with shipping both ways and full credit for an upgrade within the first year (save all the packaging!!) I don't know if all that comes through an Amazon purchase.

 

[sr2002]

This is why I love forums! Thank you so much guys for bringing up that point, I just called SVS and they said they bill of rights is only valid if purchased directly through their website. So I call amazon immediately and they were able to cancel my order (it wasn't delivered yet) and give me a refund, Whew!!
@KenM10759 I bought through amazon cause I usually buy from them. I feel more comfortable putting in my credit card than on websites I have never used before. Plus I have prime for quick shipping and my credit card points can be used on purchases. I'm located in the US

So, now that I no longer have a sub. Would love some recommendations on that part as well ... my room size will be small to medium (it' going to be in an apartment). I was really in love with the PB-2000 but after looking at its dimensions I'm a little overwhelmed by its size, its gonna stick out like a sore thumb in an apartment. But please let me know if there is anything better for a similar price. And any takes on the SB-2000 would also be appreciated. (will be using it for movies, games and music).

Unless you guys recommend not buying a Sub at all and instead buying good stereo speakers and Amp/AVR.

And to repeat my previous post, some inputs on the Yamaha Aventage linuep of receivers would be great. I'm considering the A550 as a temp solution till I have a budget for an Arcam or Nad or Rotel AVR.

My budget right now including the subwoofer was 2300$ (SB-2000 + B&W 685S2 + Rotel RA-12), so based on you alls recommendations I could switch out those for perhaps a better 2.0 setup or 2.1. That is by spending more on speakers and buying a "will do" kind of a receiver or spending equal amounts on all components.
Argh! I'm super confused haha

 

[KenM10759]

I have an SB2000, my son has the PB2000. I live in a 2nd (and 3rd) floor apartment (I own the house) and my son has a single family home. His room is 16x25 feet with a 6x7 closet out of the left rear corner. My room is 13.5 x 19, but open for more than 1/2 way along the left rear side as I'm looking at the screen/listening to stereo.

In his space, the PB2000 is right. And it is BIG. It hits harder in the low end than mine. What I mean by that is by virtue of being a ported sub it's got more volume right at the low end, while mine tapers off more gradually. For me the SB2000 is ideal because it's half the size of the PB2000 and goes as low (just not really loud down low.) Both seem to meld seamlessly with our KEF speakers (R500 for me, Q300 for him.)

BTW, I picked up my NAD receiver for $700 as a factory refurbished from Spearit Sound and I could not tell it from new. No problems.

 

[KenM10759]

Here's a nice setup you wouldn't regret, totaling $2210:

Q500 deal
Q500 review
SB2000 deal
NAD T758 deal

 

[sr2002]

Thats a good combo you suggested. However, I'm leaning towards buying new rather refurbs. How does the T748v2 stack up against the Yamaha RX-A550? I read that NAD usually rates their power amps at lower wattage numbers than way they actually can do, so I'm guessing the 2x80watts on the NAD will be more than 2x80watts on the A550 (2 Channels @ 8ohms). I'm considering the T748 as I can buy that one new for 599$ currently.

Since you own the T758, have you ever compared it directly to Marantz/Yamahas as far as SQ? Cause clearly the japanese brands have better features like network connections, bluetooth, room EQ etc.

By the way does the NAD come with Subwoofer trimming or room EQ ? Do you know by any chance which DACs NAD uses on the T758 and T748?

Also, in case I do decide to go for NAD, which online reseller would be the safest to buy from? Especially when it comes to replacement/warranty

 

[sr2002]

I just got off the phone with my local dealer and he has the following speakers:

Paradigm Studio 20 : 30% discount (possibly consignment model or a floor model)
B&W 1NT and B&W CT7.5 both 30% off (customer upgraded in mint physical condition)
B&W 685 S2 Full price new model

Receivers:
Integra 20.7 (New full price)
Rotel RC1580 Preamp + RB1572 (Possibly demo models, he said would give me a deal on them)

Are any of the above mentioned worth looking into or should I still stick with the KEF or the 685 S2s?

 

[KenM10759]

I don't know which DAC they use though I suspect its a Burr-Brown as they use that in their integrated amps. The T748V2 doesn't have Audyssey or other room correction. You have to get to the T758 to get that, and it's not as full-featured as you get with the others.

I would start another round of internet opinion battles if I were to say the NAD has improved SQ over a similarly priced Marantz/Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo...so I won't.

Get the Marantz or other unless you're strong of will and can take the crap I have.

A review from right here. https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/nad-t-748-pre

 

[sr2002]

I don't know which DAC they use though I suspect its a Burr-Brown as they use that in their integrated amps. The T748V2 doesn't have Audyssey or other room correction. You have to get to the T758 to get that, and it's not as full-featured as you get with the others.

I would start another round of internet opinion battles if I were to say the NAD has improved SQ over a similarly priced Marantz/Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo...so I won't.

Get the Marantz or other unless you're strong of will and can take the crap I have.

A review from right here. https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/nad-t-748-pre

Check my previous, cause I think you posted right about I did, so you might have missed it. Let me know your opinions on the models I mentioned up there

 

[KenM10759]

I'm only going to make one recommendation: Decide whether you are going to get a good 2.1 system or are you going to prepare for an eventual 5.x or 7.x system.

 

[sr2002]

I'm going to get a 2.1 for sure for now. And I might get a 4k TV soon, so a 4k passthrough we be a good feature to have.

But leaving aside the receiver part, which we will certainly address soon, what about the speakers that I listed. I like the Paradign Studio 20s, they look super sexy (havent heard them yet though). Will they be a significant upgrade from the 685 S2s?
I looked at the specs and the Studio 20s seem to go down to 37Hz, so I might be able to go by with a subwoofer for now for the extra money spent (the studio 20s will cost me about 1000-1100$ for the pair).
Or would you still recommend the KEFs over them?

 

[KenM10759]

We're different in thinking, so my approach would be different. If I knew I would likely someday get (at least) a 5.1 system I would first buy the best quality system oriented bookshelf I could afford, to use temporarily as L-R mains knowing that at some point I'd repositioning them to surround duty and getting the system's better floorstanding mains. And unless I know those future mains would be pricey true full range speakers (unlikely), I'd have a good sub. What I would cheap out on is the receiver, as that technology changes the fastest.

For example, I was going to buy a pair of new KEF R300 at $1800/pr thinking that I'd add the R700 floorstanding and R200c center in the distant future. As it turned out, I got the R500 floorstanding for the price of the R300. Added R100 bookshelf and R200c center later. I won't be changing any of them because I know now that a separate true 2.0 or (maybe) 2.1 system will be my next move. The 5.1 system I have now will stand as is for "all around" use as it meets all my needs other than perhaps needing a second sub.

Yes, the Paradigm Studio 20 is a nice speaker and probably sounds better to most people than the much less expensive ones you've been looking at. If it were me shelling out that money, I'd be getting a pair of KEF LS50 used or "recertified" from KEF Direct (they pop up there every couple of months.) I don't know where you are seeing "down to 37hz" but Paradigm themselves isn't even claiming that. Seen HERE. If true, the KEF Q series would not be as good until you get up to the Q700 floorstanding or better.

 

[sr2002]

We're different in thinking, so my approach would be different. If I knew I would likely someday get (at least) a 5.1 system I would first buy the best quality system oriented bookshelf I could afford, to use temporarily as L-R mains knowing that at some point I'd repositioning them to surround duty and getting the system's better floorstanding mains. And unless I know those future mains would be pricey true full range speakers (unlikely), I'd have a good sub. What I would cheap out on is the receiver, as that technology changes the fastest.

For example, I was going to buy a pair of new KEF R300 at $1800/pr thinking that I'd add the R700 floorstanding and R200c center in the distant future. As it turned out, I got the R500 floorstanding for the price of the R300. Added R100 bookshelf and R200c center later. I won't be changing any of them because I know now that a separate true 2.0 or (maybe) 2.1 system will be my next move. The 5.1 system I have now will stand as is for "all around" use as it meets all my needs other than perhaps needing a second sub.

Yes, the Paradigm Studio 20 is a nice speaker and probably sounds better to most people than the much less expensive ones you've been looking at. If it were me shelling out that money, I'd be getting a pair of KEF LS50 used or "recertified" from KEF Direct (they pop up there every couple of months.) I don't know where you are seeing "down to 37hz" but Paradigm themselves isn't even claiming that. Seen HERE. If true, the KEF Q series would not be as good until you get up to the Q700 floorstanding or better.

We actually have similar thinking, maybe I'm not coming off that way. I do prefer to spend on good two channel speakers which I can then either use as fronts or surrounds and get floor standers. As for receivers I was planning on the Yamaha RX-A550 cause its a good cheap option for short term till I can afford a good Arcam or Nad or Rotel receiver.

The Paradigm has 37hz mention as (DIN) at -6db .. I'm assuming that means its a sharp drop in amplitude at that frequency
(From the spec sheet) Low Frequency Extension 36 Hz (DIN)
I don't know exactly what that means, but I'm assuming so please feel free to correct me.
So my current plan was:
Paradigm Studio 20 (that is if I like their sound) + Yamaha A550 (for starters) + SVS SB2000 Or PSA 15s

If I dont like the Studio 20s or if they are not in the condition they store owner is claim:
B&W 685S2 + .... the same combo and I can later demote the B&Ws to surround duty and get something like the KEF R-series

Is that a fair plan?

 

[KenM10759]

Yup!

As for speaker sound, what I find with the KEF Uni-Q equipped speakers is that they are crisp and clear in mid-base through to the upper range of the tweeter. At the very top there's a little volume fall-off, so they're never bright or piercing. The Pardigm, more the complete opposite and the B&W somewhere between them. I opted for KEF because I really like the range they produce with such authority. With the KEF series, the Q isn't quite as defined as the R, but you'd have to hear both to tell the difference. The R is higher priced because of the finer fit & finish (no polymer laminate veneers, real wood), better quality components in the crossovers and a slightly different version of the "Z-Flex" cone surrounds.

The B&W 600 series is their low end series so compromises are made in cabinet construction and internal components. IMO, the Paradigm went for looks, primarily, and a fairly bright tweeter. I don't think they reach as low as you may see in specs, but they're worth a listen because we all like different sound characteristics in a speaker.

With regard to subs, the PSA's are really good, only thing is that they're a downfiring sub. I'm not a fan of those, especially in a shared confines situation like a condo or apartment. If on a carpeted surface, you lose some effectiveness unless you have them on a hard surface base. Being a 15" they go lower than the SB2000 but are substantially larger.

That's all I got for now. Best of luck to you.

 

[Jaybeez]

From the looks of it, you've run the gamut in terms of evaluation of speakers.
I just picked up a pair of AA Sierra 2's but I can tell you the Sierra 1's have amazing bass, on par with the 2's. I have a Rhythmik sub, but almost don't need it.
I think you may have mentioned the Yamaha integrated amps (501 and 801). I have the former, and it has a ton of features for the $$ but initially is a bit harsh in the high end.
I've put about 50 hours on it, and it's started to mellow.
For true 2.1, and if you're set on avoiding an AVR, worth consideration. Lots of options, including bluetooth streaming, etc. and you can add a sub later if you feel the need.
Good luck.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yup!


With regard to subs, the PSA's are really good, only thing is that they're a downfiring sub. I'm not a fan of those, especially in a shared confines situation like a condo or apartment. If on a carpeted surface, you lose some effectiveness unless you have them on a hard surface base. Being a 15" they go lower than the SB2000 but are substantially larger.

Your comment made me curious because most of the PSA subs I could think of were not downfiring although I thought they did offer such.....only 2 of the 10 PSA subs on their page here are downfiring fwiw.

 

[sr2002]

Your comment made me curious because most of the PSA subs I could think of were not downfiring although I thought they did offer such.....only 2 of the 10 PSA subs on their page here are downfiring fwiw.

Yes and those two are the only ones my wallet can afford right now ... Thats why I mentioned the 15S, and not the S1500 which is front firing.

But is the whole downfiring sub on carpet thing pretty noticible? Is there major degradation? I will be living a 1bdrm apartment or possibly a studio (Which is one of the reasons I'm avoiding ported subs as I cant exploit the wall rattling potential with shared walls in an apartment setting)

@KenM10759
Thanks a lot, I'll report back to you all tomorrow once I actually audition the speakers.

@Jaybeez
Thanks for you inputs, yes I have pretty much explored the entire universe of the sub 1000$ audio components haha. I heard of the AA Sierras from multiple people, but I'm unable to pull the trigger on them without an audition. With speakers I tend to be picky as I have had experience with fatigue on certain speakers, as I also do near field listening if I'm sitting at my desk. With subwoofers its a different story, I can trust the specs and overall reviews to make a judgement. And good to know about the Yamaha amp, its in my shortlist along with the Aventage A550.