My 7:1 in-ceiling SpeakerCraft setup has never handled (DVD) voices properly...

[Bill F]

During a major remodel about 8 years ago, installed 5 AIM 8 Threes and a back pair of 6" CRS. That was my extravagance; the TV's been a 40" and the receiver/amp a mid-priced Yamaha.

The Yamaha started dropping channels a half year ago, so I finally went on Craigslist and picked-up another mid-range Yamaha, the RX-V675. Since I'm in shopping mode, I'm thinking that I should disconnect the ceiling center, and just replace it with a center speaker. So I've been watching what's on Craigslist here the the SF Bay Area, but slowly deciding that I should actually get something matched to my remaining built-in speakers, or at least something decent.

I visited one of of the chains, and he said Martin Logan 8i. I called a big mail order business, and he said Martin Logan 30, "the 8i is too small."

I called SpeakerCraft, and learned that they haven't sold "box" speakers in awhile, just in-wall. he commented that I didn't need to fixate on matching the brand, but should keep an eye on timber-matching and frequency crossover. He mentioned that I should match impedance (8 ohms) but then commented that Yamaha probably could handle 4 or 6 ohm. He mentioned that SpeakerCraft did also sell Proficient Audio, in enclosures.

So now I'm on eBay, trying to decide what to get. There are SpeakerCraft box centers (the 6.1, and one 6.5) for as low as $40 (dinged). If I'm to match timber, then there's one person selling a boxed center (AIM Monitor Three LCR) for $275 + $87 shipping. And there are Martin Logans and Proficients galore.

What do I do? Should I buy a dinged SpeakerCraft 6.1, and even see if a TV-level center is the correct solution? Or should I just solved the problem, and buy _ _ _ _ _? (You tell me!) Thanks!

Update: After writing this, I said to myself - you've got the chance to test your hypothesis for $40 (dinged old Speakercraft center) and you're sitting there blogging? So I just ordered it. But I doubt that that's my long-term solution. In the photo below, the seats next to the lamp is the typical watching-position. You can see the three front in-ceilings; they're each about 10 feet away from the lamp-area. Those AIM Threes are aimed, to that helps a bit. What should I put right under that TV, so that movies sound better?

Bill in SF

 

[TLS Guy]

During a major remodel about 8 years ago, installed 5 AIM 8 Threes and a back pair of 6" CRS. That was my extravagance; the TV's been a 40" and the receiver/amp a mid-priced Yamaha.

The Yamaha started dropping channels a half year ago, so I finally went on Craigslist and picked-up another mid-range Yamaha, the RX-V675. Since I'm in shopping mode, I'm thinking that I should disconnect the ceiling center, and just replace it with a center speaker. So I've been watching what's on Craigslist here the the SF Bay Area, but slowly deciding that I should actually get something matched to my remaining built-in speakers, or at least something decent.

I visited one of of the chains, and he said Martin Logan 8i. I called a big mail order business, and he said Martin Logan 30, "the 8i is too small."

I called SpeakerCraft, and learned that they haven't sold "box" speakers in awhile, just in-wall. he commented that I didn't need to fixate on matching the brand, but should keep an eye on timber-matching and frequency crossover. He mentioned that I should match impedance (8 ohms) but then commented that Yamaha probably could handle 4 or 6 ohm. He mentioned that SpeakerCraft did also sell Proficient Audio, in enclosures.

So now I'm on eBay, trying to decide what to get. There are SpeakerCraft box centers (the 6.1, and one 6.5) for as low as $40 (dinged). If I'm to match timber, then there's one person selling a boxed center (AIM Monitor Three LCR) for $275 + $87 shipping. And there are Martin Logans and Proficients galore.

What do I do? Should I buy a dinged SpeakerCraft 6.1, and even see if a TV-level center is the correct solution? Or should I just solved the problem, and buy _ _ _ _ _? (You tell me!) Thanks!

Bill in SFView attachment 28786

Your whole problem is ceiling speakers. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds at a push, but nothing else. You will get nowhere with your current arrangement.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

The Speakercraft rep’s advice is generally good, but I don’t think timbre-matching is all that important in your situation.

Even if the new “box” speaker and in-ceiling are perfectly timbre-matched, the center will be pointed at the listening position, while the front left and right are pointed at the floor. Thus they will sound drastically different.

Less you doubt, just go to a department store or big-box hardware store and notice how much differently the overhead speakers sound when you’re directly underneath them vs. 10-15 ft. away.

That said, the Speakercraft AIM Monitor Three LCR you’re looking at on ebay appears to be a much better speaker than the 6.1 LCR.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[panteragstk]

I've got an all ceiling 5 channel Soeakercraft system in my living room. It's tolerable, but it's by far the lowest in quality compared to anything else in my house.

If possible, get three front speakers that are from the same line and user your front ceiling speakers for ambient music. If you can't do that and have to use ceiling speakers I'd just stick with what you have. Mine sounds decent for what it is, but calibration made a huge difference for me.

EDIT: Have you tried angling the tweeters more toward your listening position? That should help as well.

 

[Bill F]

Your whole problem is ceiling speakers. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds at a push, but nothing else. You will get nowhere with your current arrangement.

I was hoping for more constructive comments...

 

[Bill F]

The Speakercraft rep’s advice is generally good, but I don’t think timbre-matching is all that important in your situation.

Even if the new “box” speaker and in-ceiling are perfectly timbre-matched, the center will be pointed at the listening position, while the front left and right are pointed at the floor. Thus they will sound drastically different.

Less you doubt, just go to a department store or big-box hardware store and notice how much differently the overhead speakers sound when you’re directly underneath them vs. 10-15 ft. away.

That said, the Speakercraft AIM Monitor Three LCR you’re looking at on ebay appears to be a much better speaker than the 6.1 LCR.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks for the guidance. If timber-matching is sort of silly, given the angles, should I just focus on getting the best center I can for the money, e.g., whatever's discounted because of a blemish?

 

[Bill F]

I've got an all ceiling 5 channel Soeakercraft system in my living room. It's tolerable, but it's by far the lowest in quality compared to anything else in my house.

If possible, get three front speakers that are from the same line and user your front ceiling speakers for ambient music. If you can't do that and have to use ceiling speakers I'd just stick with what you have. Mine sounds decent for what it is, but calibration made a huge difference for me.

EDIT: Have you tried angling the tweeters more toward your listening position? That should help as well.

Yes, the AIMS are aimed. Based on the vibe I'm getting, should I be considering a sound-bar for DVDs, thus abandoning the ceiling rig?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I was hoping for more constructive comments...

While TLS is sharp tongue, you should excuse him as he is both extremely knowledgeable in matters of audio and electronics and a famously very short patience. He's also 100% correct. You need to switch to speakers positioned where voices should come from - ie front, in-walls aren't ideal, but would be a huge improvement over in-ceiling.

 

[panteragstk]

Yes, the AIMS are aimed. Based on the vibe I'm getting, should I be considering a sound-bar for DVDs, thus abandoning the ceiling rig?

If you can, I would. It'll sound much better.

 

[Bill F]

Update: a friend who just moved to California arrived at my house with a Bose Soundbar 700 and wireless surrounds. Yep, that sounds good, and my ceiling install is unnecessary. The next data point is how to get audio from DVDs that's almost as good as this setup, without dropping $1k...

 

[glsound]

Just found this post and hoping for some additional direction. The topic is very similar to my problem.

I have three aim 7 speakers (front row) and two aim 5 speakers for the rear channel. I have never been happy with the front channel speaker being mounted in the ceiling. This was recommended by a Best Buy consultant. Obviously a bad recommendation.

The front speakers are aimed forward, but, regular voice sound is not good. Full volume movie watching is good.

Looking for ideas on how to replace the center channel ceiling speaker with a center channel speaker that would sit just under the TV. I have a wire behind the TV to hook up a different center channel speaker. I have tried a couple center speakers, but, have not been happy with them. The aim 7 seems to produce better sound, but, it's position above the TV is just wrong.

What would be a good center channel speaker that would work well with the aim 7 speakers in the ceiling? I would obviously disconnect the center channel aim 7 in the ceiling.

 

[TLS Guy]

Just found this post and hoping for some additional direction. The topic is very similar to my problem.

I have three aim 7 speakers (front row) and two aim 5 speakers for the rear channel. I have never been happy with the front channel speaker being mounted in the ceiling. This was recommended by a Best Buy consultant. Obviously a bad recommendation.

The front speakers are aimed forward, but, regular voice sound is not good. Full volume movie watching is good.

Looking for ideas on how to replace the center channel ceiling speaker with a center channel speaker that would sit just under the TV. I have a wire behind the TV to hook up a different center channel speaker. I have tried a couple center speakers, but, have not been happy with them. The aim 7 seems to produce better sound, but, it's position above the TV is just wrong.

What would be a good center channel speaker that would work well with the aim 7 speakers in the ceiling? I would obviously disconnect the center channel aim 7 in the ceiling.

So you ran into a real "Pig Dribbler" at Best Buy and that was really unfortunate as he has sold you a useless system as you have found out.

Just moving the center speaker will be a very partial solution at best. So you actually need to have right, left and center speakers all be up front. Honestly this is the only way you will get the results you are looking for. You can leave the surround ceiling speakers at a push, but even that is not optimal.

 

[Antares]

During a major remodel about 8 years ago, installed 5 AIM 8 Threes and a back pair of 6" CRS. That was my extravagance; the TV's been a 40" and the receiver/amp a mid-priced Yamaha.

The Yamaha started dropping channels a half year ago, so I finally went on Craigslist and picked-up another mid-range Yamaha, the RX-V675. Since I'm in shopping mode, I'm thinking that I should disconnect the ceiling center, and just replace it with a center speaker. So I've been watching what's on Craigslist here the the SF Bay Area, but slowly deciding that I should actually get something matched to my remaining built-in speakers, or at least something decent.

I visited one of of the chains, and he said Martin Logan 8i. I called a big mail order business, and he said Martin Logan 30, "the 8i is too small."

I called SpeakerCraft, and learned that they haven't sold "box" speakers in awhile, just in-wall. he commented that I didn't need to fixate on matching the brand, but should keep an eye on timber-matching and frequency crossover. He mentioned that I should match impedance (8 ohms) but then commented that Yamaha probably could handle 4 or 6 ohm. He mentioned that SpeakerCraft did also sell Proficient Audio, in enclosures.

So now I'm on eBay, trying to decide what to get. There are SpeakerCraft box centers (the 6.1, and one 6.5) for as low as $40 (dinged). If I'm to match timber, then there's one person selling a boxed center (AIM Monitor Three LCR) for $275 + $87 shipping. And there are Martin Logans and Proficients galore.

What do I do? Should I buy a dinged SpeakerCraft 6.1, and even see if a TV-level center is the correct solution? Or should I just solved the problem, and buy _ _ _ _ _? (You tell me!) Thanks!

Update: After writing this, I said to myself - you've got the chance to test your hypothesis for $40 (dinged old Speakercraft center) and you're sitting there blogging? So I just ordered it. But I doubt that that's my long-term solution. In the photo below, the seats next to the lamp is the typical watching-position. You can see the three front in-ceilings; they're each about 10 feet away from the lamp-area. Those AIM Threes are aimed, to that helps a bit. What should I put right under that TV, so that movies sound better?

Bill in SF
View attachment 28786

You could first of all get some nice front speakers and a center speaker and keep those ceiling speakers if you ever want to do Atmos/DTS: X down the line.

 

[glsound]

I (unfortunately) don't have the option to set up L/R speakers on either side of my TV. All my equipment is in the basement and getting new wires to the wall behind my TV would be a tough project.

My plan, right now, is to pull one of the AIM 5 speakers out of the ceiling (rear channel) and try using that as a center speaker. Abandon rear channel. We have the AIM 5 speakers in the kitchen and like the voice sound from those.

I will report back on how that goes. If we like the AIM 5 as a center channel speaker, I will have to figure out what type of enclosure I could make so that it is just not a bare speaker hanging under my TV.

Yes, apparently the Best Buy guy was a "PIg Dribbler" (I guess, never heard that term before). I like the AIM speakers, but, his recommendation on the position (in our new build) was bad.

 

[Eppie]

Just found this post and hoping for some additional direction. The topic is very similar to my problem.

I have three aim 7 speakers (front row) and two aim 5 speakers for the rear channel. I have never been happy with the front channel speaker being mounted in the ceiling. This was recommended by a Best Buy consultant. Obviously a bad recommendation.

The front speakers are aimed forward, but, regular voice sound is not good. Full volume movie watching is good.

Looking for ideas on how to replace the center channel ceiling speaker with a center channel speaker that would sit just under the TV. I have a wire behind the TV to hook up a different center channel speaker. I have tried a couple center speakers, but, have not been happy with them. The aim 7 seems to produce better sound, but, it's position above the TV is just wrong.

What would be a good center channel speaker that would work well with the aim 7 speakers in the ceiling? I would obviously disconnect the center channel aim 7 in the ceiling.

The front 3 speakers are the most important, so I can understand members recommending that you move the front 3 to the TV wall if possible. That would be the best solution.

The challenge is that you can not audition other speakers to determine what you like. If you are stuck with in ceiling, I would consider Triad, which is an American manufacturer. They produce an in-ceiling speaker with an angled baffle which aims the speaker at your seating location, as opposed to the typical ceiling speaker which points at the floor. There are several different models of ceiling speakers listed here and @DigitalDawn in this forum is a Triad dealer that could help out. I think they would be superior to what you have now.