Achieving CD sound quality via a PC setup.

[MVS512]

I just joined this site and wanted to say thanks in advance for checking out this post.


I have a question regarding my new and first, home theater setup. I recently got an Onkyo HT RC 160 connected to the Infinity Primus P362 floor standing speakers. A big aspect to my entertainment system is of course, listening to music. I personally think CD’s sound amazing on this setup however, my MP3’s, lossless, FLAC’s, (I’ve tried them all) files just don’t have that “WoW” factor (for a lack of a better term) as a CD. There’s some element that is not captured when playing my files off my PC.

My PC setup is an older HP Pavilion a520n, an external Creative Live 24! Sound Blaster connected to my Receiver directly via an optical out cable (25’).

My question is, is there something I’m missing to get the same effect as a CD?...perhaps a better sound card?... although, my spending is limited and really would not be able to get a sound card for several hundred dollars.

If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts on this topic, please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[sholling]

I mainly listen to music stored on a PC and there is zero difference between the sound of my CD collection and my flacs. In theory bits are bits and the digital output shouldn't be effected. My first suspicion is that you have some kind of processing or sound setup issues on your PC. I'd also look at your receiver settings. For example direct mode will bypass your subwoofer and feed the bass to your mains. Stereo mode will break that up and cross low bass over to your sub. If playing with those settings doesn't solve the problem then I'd see if I could borrow a non-soundblaster card.

 

[MVS512]

Thanks for the response,

I tried adjusting the settings on the amp to replicate the CD sound and it still sounds different than when I play the same song on my PC. I'm not saying it sounds bad, just not as crisp and vibrant as when I play a CD through my Xbox. Maybe another sound card would have an impact?

 

[itschris]

Thanks for the response,

I tried adjusting the settings on the amp to replicate the CD sound and it still sounds different than when I play the same song on my PC. I'm not saying it sounds bad, just not as crisp and vibrant as when I play a CD through my Xbox. Maybe another sound card would have an impact?

Have you tried some side by side comparisons of the same song converted different ways... like WAV or Lossless FLAC. I"m not an expert but I do believe there is lossless and lossy FLAC.

From there, it could be your older card. Perhaps the board is "touching" the data when it sends it. You can get decent sound cards for a resonable price. You don't have to spend $600. I'd give that a try failing what scholling recommended because I've actually tried really hard to hear a difference between my discs, even high end ones like Telarc, and my lossless copies and have not been able to discern any difference.

 

[bandphan]

have you tried an analog cable? 25' for optical is a long run.

 

[MVS512]

I haven't tried an analog connection although, a friend did recommend I get a card with RCA out's and connect that directly to my receiver.

Any recommendations on a good sound card?...to be honest, I think mine is starting to go. I have the latest drives and for the past month or so, every time I start my PC I don't get sound. I have to disconnect my sound card then reconnect it to get audio. Once I do that I'm able to get good sound quality from my PC, but just not as crisp as I would intend.

 

[bandphan]

M Audio makes good cards, as well as others.

 

[sholling]

FLAC = Free Lossless Audio Codec (some say compression).

If you were going to be using analog outputs I'd tell you to look at an HT Omega Claro or Claro Plus+ for their top quality DACs and analog sections, but using a digital connection I'd look for an HT Omega Striker. The receiver is doing the digital to analog conversion so there's no use spending the money on cards with a better analog section.

I don't think a long optical run is going to cause any issues but if you own a long RCA cable you could try that just for grins. Frankly I doubt it'll make a bit of difference.

Let me ask a silly question with no disrespect intended. You did rip those flacs straight from a CD correct? The reason that I'm asking is that I've run across people that have converted a 128bt MP3 to a flac thinking that it would restore full CD quality. It doesn't and I'm sure you haven't done that but I just have to ask.

If I had to give adds I'd say the odds that it's a settings issue is 80% (PC or receiver) and 20% that it's a sound card quality problem but I honestly dislike soundblaster cards. Make sure that the CD player and the receiver are using all the same settings including the same processing settings. Try that and eliminate the receiver as a possible problem. Next try playing a CD from the PC and if it sounds awful we've all but eliminated the quality of the rip as a problem. That leaves the computer's sound settings, the soundblaster software settings, and the card itself. The card should be the last resort because that's the part that costs money.

 

[MVS512]

The HT | OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - is selling for $90 on Newegg, not a bad price and it has optical out so, if there's really not much of a difference I could keep the optical cable and continue to run that to the receiver.

sholling - yes, I converted music from a CD using EAC and LAME to create an MP3. Played that on my Xbox by transferring the file itself on a flash drive and still did not sound as crisp as the CD. I tried playing FLAC from my PC (Xbox does not read FLAC files) and it sounds good but again, a CD just has a certain clarity that I can't replicate using either the MP3 or FLAC files.

I've tried listening to the CD and FLAC files from my PC through the receiver and it does sound good but, then I put on a CD through the Xbox and it just comes to life...fuller and cleaner sounding...both the sound settings are the same on the receiver in terms of either using the Game (Xbox) connection/port or CD (my PC connection).

 

[MVS512]

Based on the the tests I've run, it appears to me (unless of course there's something that's being overlooked) that the issue has to do with either my PC or soundcard; if anyone feels that I'm overlooking another possible scenario, please let me know your thoughts. If I decide to go with an upgrade on my soundcard, I now realize that I have to have an external soundcard since I only have two PCI slots that are currently occupied (1. wireless linksys adapter 2. Video card). I was hoping that someone could make a recommendation on an external sound card that would improve the sound quality? Additionally, are external sounds cards just as reliable and capable as an internal?

Thanks again

 

[sholling]

Just another thought. What I've chosen to do is replace my dedicated media PC with a dedicated media device. In my case a Western Digital TV Live. It's about the size of a really thick paperback book. You can connect it to your PC via a cheap Ethernet cable or a wireless adapter, or store music on an external drive and add additional media files over the network.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61828
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62300

Another option that's a tad cheaper is the Asus O Play but it's limited to wired Ethernet only. If you do the Western Digital make sure you buy the WD TV Live and not just the WDTV.

 

[fightinkraut]

sholling - yes, I converted music from a CD using EAC and LAME to create an MP3. Played that on my Xbox by transferring the file itself on a flash drive and still did not sound as crisp as the CD. I tried playing FLAC from my PC (Xbox does not read FLAC files) and it sounds good but again, a CD just has a certain clarity that I can't replicate using either the MP3 or FLAC files.

You could consider installing TVersity and playing streaming the FLAC's to your xbox to see if there's a difference in sound quality.

 

[MVS512]

Both are solid options to consider...I'm still doing more research and taking all suggestions into accounts....

I came across this device on PCMag.Com....seems interesting and the included cables appear to good to be true...


Xitel Pro HiFi-Link
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,844002,00.asp

 

[oppman99]

Have you considered using a USB DAC? I use the Cambridge DACmagic and can't tell the difference between music from the computer vs the CD player (I use WAV files). The DAC should bypass all of the computer sound processing. The drawbacks are price and the lack of ability to play hirez music without downdampling. For me, it was well worth the investment.

I also use Winamp as a media player. I like it a lot better than Windows Media in terms of sound quality and ease of use. Foobar and Mediamonkey are two others you could look into as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

Both are solid options to consider...I'm still doing more research and taking all suggestions into accounts....

I came across this device on PCMag.Com....seems interesting and the included cables appear to good to be true...


Xitel Pro HiFi-Link
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,844002,00.asp

I'm a great believer in getting audio processing out of the computer. As far as I can tell the pros never use a sound card in the computer.

When I researched my work station professional engineers said that was something you never do.

I have to say my computer system is as clean as any part of the rig. In fact I use it for two channel CD listening with analog out and the pre pro on by pass.

 

[sholling]

I'd take anything PC Mag said with a healthy grain of salt.

 

[MVS512]

lol...thanks for the suggestions....I have a lot to work with and will keep searching what's the best option. If I ever get this to work to my satisfaction I'll definitely share my results.

 

[MVS512]

I think I found my answer...I tried listening to my music by streaming it through the Xbox and I definitely get a fuller sound in comparison to when playing it off my PC....maybe there's an issue with the sound card, the cable, etc...not really sure. Again, I'm playing my files through MediaMonkey without any EQ setting to alter the sound and the settings on the receiver are Identical to when I'm playing it through the CD or Game port.

This setup will suffice however, I'm not so keen on having my receiver, TV and PC on all at the same time...definitely a waste of money.

 

[WmAx]

NOTE: I automatically presumed you meant STEREO sound. If you meant surround, then obviously, the solution below is not applicable. However, I will leave the post intact as it is still a valid recommendation for stereo application(s).

Do you want to play around or get serious?

I am going to recommend a very useful, serious tool, that is a premium level performance product: E-MU 0404 USB(NOT THE PCI CARD; which is a totally different and inferior product). This device is not only a top quality DAC, it has top grade ADC, and just about every analog and digital I/O one could want, and unbalanced and balanced analog, and it also works stand alone (!) without a PC as an I/O converter and mic pre.. It also has top notch mic pres with 48V phantom voltage. It also has a dedicated high quality headphone amp built in.

Basically, it does almost anything you could want, and it does it all superbly. BTW, you will find the phantom voltage powered mic-pres useful in the future when you want to get serious about setting up your audio system.

-Chris

 

[MVS512]

Well, it would be for stereo as of now however, I will eventually build a 7.1 surround sound setup in the future. It's not a bad price either, I see it for about $185, not an option as of right now since I already shelled out a lot of cash for this setup but definitely an option in the near future. One thing I'm not clear on is (I apologize in advance since I am still new at this), if it's a stand alone product that does not require a PC, how do you transfer you data files to the receiver?