A little story about a drunk Republican and a drunk Democrat at the same table.

Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
the bible's stance on slavery
From wiki: As for Israelite slaves, the Covenant Code allows them to voluntarily renounce their seventh-year manumission

Seven years ... I could stand on my head for seven years.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I think you really, really are touching on something substantive here. Thinking about this stuff, the foundations of morality, what makes something "good" or "bad"? Where do we derive "ought" statements? Why? It's not easy, and there are a lot of slippery slopes and rabbit holes along the way. It's so nice to just have someone tell us to do what we should do, "because the bible says so". It's quick and easy shortcut instead of really diving in thinking about the larger implications or the why.

I don't agree with everything Sam Harris has to say, but I do like his version of making moral decisions based on their impact to well being and harm reduction. It's argued that's a little bit of a fuzzy foundation and not completely well defined but I would compare it to "good health". Which is also kinda fuzzy and not well defined, but I think that everyone has a pretty good idea of what it means to be healthy, along with what it means to increase well being and reduce suffering, and we can have the conversations about it.
If everyone agreed on what constituted 'right', 'good' and 'moral', it would certainly simplify life, wouldn't it? I'd bet that it would be pretty boring, too. No matter what ideology predominating within any particular society, you would still see debates about abortion, capital punishment and group vs individual rights. Human nature being what is, universal harmony simply isn't going to happen.

Sam Harris is a smart dude, but I have a hard time with his suggestion that there is no free will, while also saying determinism does not mean conscious awareness and deliberative thinking serve no purpose.

If there is indeed, no such thing as free will, even if we believe we are making conscious choices, those choices would be pre-determined. I just can't see how he can possibly square that circle.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I tried talking the guy down that everyone has there own opinions on the matter and treating our friend that way was not cool.
I'm vaccinated, anti-trumper, etc.... But I may have done what that guy did on purpose just to make a point about talking politics/religion all the while with a wink to others.

Don't want poop, don't start poop. This is why I don't care for most of my 'enlightened' brothers and sisters. The person that started this is 100% to blame.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
So my wife and I were invited to meet up with an old friend of hers for drinks. This friend of my wife was in town with her Aunt and they live out of state.. Texas of all places but are still Democrats. They invited some random friends and family from the area that they haven't seen in years so it was fairly large group of us. This was the first time my wife and I did anything is a public group outing since before the lockdown, around 2019 Holidays. We are both vaccinated and felt it was time to live our lives again. We had a great time, had plenty of different wines and all got along great. It was very encouraging with not a hint of politics or agendas from anyone. I felt optimistic about humanity for the first time in years.

Fast forward through the evening... we were all at a winery that was closing up at 8pm. What nonsense is that right? While some of the group went home, 6 of us decided to head up the road to another winery that was open much later. We get there, we order a few more bottles, get some snacks and find a nice table.

After maybe 20-30 minutes of talking to one another, one of the lady's in our group (The Texas Democrat) started picking the brain of the only other guy (unknown political affiliation at this time) at the table about something political. That conversation led to whether he voted for Trump or not, Covid being a hoax to manipulate people, climate change not being real and that women should be sent to jail for abortions.... At this point the winery had silenced and all the patrons were listening these two argue about this stuff. The rest of us were trying to diffuse them and let them know the entire place was listening to them. The woman point blank asked the guy what he thought about abortion. I could see he didn't want to talk about it but she kept digging at him about it since she knew he was a Trump supporter. Honestly, I blame the entire poop show on her regardless of the guy showing his true colors eventually. He eventually stated that women need to be sent to prison for abortions. A woman that could hear this debate at another table across the restaurant stood up and starting shouting at this guy all kinds of things and took her friend and stormed out of there. Other people got up and left too. (This was literally an episode of Seinfeld unfolding before my eyes but the HBO version) The guy's viewpoints cleared out the restaurant when he went on a anti abortions rant and how democrats are all fucking crazy and are to blame for the worlds problems and started swearing at and insulting the woman from the other table and the woman that asked about the abortion rights. He was triggered hard. I could see one of those cheap Chinese made MAGA hats immaculately forming on his head as he spoke.

Needles to say, the night went way south.

I tried talking the guy down that everyone has there own opinions on the matter and treating our friend that way was not cool. His argument was that women are aborting babies at nearly a week before they are born. As absurd as that is, he believed it to be true and couldn't be told otherwise. Our group slowly dissolved and my wife dragged me out of there making that guy completely shunned from the group.

It was a sad demonstration of how extreme peoples political beliefs are. The vast majority of what people believe as reality is not even true but no amount of evidence or facts will change their minds. Once someone picks a team, as with sports, they go down with the ship out of loyalty without reason.

I don't think society is ready for unity when alcohol exist.
My short comment of this is I think people should put a lot of effort in stopping equating sides. My firm belief is that it's not about Democrats and Republicans. The imposed opinion is: "they're all the same". Even if the difference is just a measly point, one should take the effort to think it through and see exactly where that point goes.

I think that equating only benefits the worse of the two. Imagine saying to the golden Olympic athletes aaarhg, it just a fraction of a second, you're the same as bronze. Well... the bronze might like that notion, but you did injustice precisely to the one who tried harder.

I won't suggest which is which, but I will preach the taking the effort and the fair attribution of points and differences every time. It's good for the rigour, for discipline, it keeps your brain from becoming lazy and it gives the subject its importance, which I think it still has. Even when it appears silly.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
From wiki: As for Israelite slaves, the Covenant Code allows them to voluntarily renounce their seventh-year manumission

Seven years ... I could stand on my head for seven years.
But could you renounce your manumission? :D wonder what the heck that word means

Sounds like a part from a car
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
But could you renounce your manumission? :D wonder what the heck that word means

Sounds like a part from a car
For instance, if a Hebrew slave marries another slave and has children he goes free after 7 years, but the wife and children still belong to the slave owner. The solution? Go before the village elders and tell them you renounce your freedom so you can stay with your family. Then they put your ear to the door and drive an awl through it, tagging you like a sheep to show that you belong to the slave owner forever.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
For instance, if a Hebrew slave marries another slave and has children he goes free after 7 years, but the wife and children still belong to the slave owner. The solution? Go before the village elders and tell them you renounce your freedom so you can stay with your family. Then they put your ear to the door and drive an awl through it, tagging you like a sheep to show that you belong to the slave owner forever.
Oh my gosh that sounds so friggin beautiful. I love a good bed time story :rolleyes:
 

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