That sounds pretty condescending. Ya know? Are you being condescending?
Not at all. I just think people should base there recommendations on facts.
The research is the article linked in post #1. Let me suggest that you take your arguments to that thread. The real merits of these receivers was discussed there in much more detail.
That article also goes on to say:
More Gain is Better?
Emotiva XPA-2I once picked on Emotiva for creating their latest series of amps with higher than usual voltage gain (32dB unbridged, 38dB bridged). A typical high performance amp only a few years ago had around 29dB of gain via the unbalanced inputs meaning if a preamp drive level was around 2Vrms it would be capable of driving a 400 watt amplifier to full rated power without clipping itself and turning off. I found many budget receivers couldn’t drive their preamp outs any higher than 1.2Vrms without clipping and distorting or shutting down. That meant an amplifier with a similar gain structure would only be capable of being driven to 142watts when that receiver was used as the preamp! In the case with the Emotiva XPA-2 amp of 32dB of gain, that same 1.2Vrms would drive it to its full rated 250 watts/channel specification. When I spoke to the company President, Dan Laufman, he said they deliberately sacrificed a bit of SNR in order for their amp to be more compatible with receivers being used as preamps to drive them. This approach makes a lot of sense! Axiom Audio also has a similar gain structure in their A1400-8 Class D amplifier and for the very same reasoning though they claim to have achieved this without sacrificing any SNR.
So with these latest generation of budget featured packed receivers, it must be determined whether or not these models have high enough quality preamp outputs to drive external amplification should the end user decide the internal amps just aren’t cutting it for them. The end user must also be mindful of the mating amplifier they are choosing to ensure it will work well as a system. We will be rounding up as many budget receivers we can to run a full range of testing on them to answer this grueling question.
Conclusion
FlagshipHaving done this job for some time now, I’ve noticed this trend with many of the major brands over the years. Companies go through up and down cycles and as a result lose market share. As long as technology keeps evolving, manufacturers will do their best to cram in features of next generation products that were only previously found in their flagship models. While IC integration will trickle down technology, reducing production costs making it easier to achieve this, there will usually be other compromises in the lower end models to realize the feature count.
Finding that balance of basic performance compromises vs. relevant features is the equation that receiver manufacturers must figure out when launching their new platforms. It seems Yamaha has upset this delicate balance with their latest RX-Vxx5 series of receivers. We will be paying careful attention to this trend for all manufacturers during our product evaluations to recommend whether or not these new dream machines have the audio chops of their predecessors or if they’ve got the tools to adequately drive external amplification for those looking for more power in their next home theater experience. Don’t just run out and buy the latest model because it’s newer. Stop and think if the model you currently have meets the performance vs feature balance that is right for your needs and how the newer so called “improved” model fits into that equation. All the features in the world can’t replace clean undistorted dynamics which we believe makes up most of the WOW and magic in the newer HD audio formats.
This review was done last March and there has been plenty of end user data posted on the net since then. "Do the research"
So if you're going to use it as a stand alone receiver than I agree. Look elsewhere, but if you're going to add external power why would you spend the same amount of money on older tech?
The voltage output for the pre-outs on the
663 and 665 are the same all the way up to the Z7.
This thread was about people backing me up. Now it's about congratulating Sean.
Lastly. He'll be lucky to find a 663 at this point. You're nephew is chasing a ghost. If you google this issue you'll find a few posts, here and elsewhere, claiming these online retailers are pulling a bait and switch because you can't get the 663 anymore. Some people have been successful in getting these retailers to upgrade the purchase to a 765 though.
Look. If he gets the 663 and is happy with it that's all that matters and I hope he is happy with the new unit what ever he ends up with.
Sean. I congratulate you on the new unit. Please post how you like it when it arrives.
