3 way “bookshelf “ speakers

[ryanosaur]

Ryan, you are one lucky dude to be getting the last “new” pair of Phil 3s. There are going to a collectors item soon. I’m glad you were able to get everything worked out & can’t wait to see those pics!

Kinda bittersweet. I'm very grateful that I will get to experience these in my home, hopefully for a long while to come.
Regardless, one of the last pairs, it would seem. I think Dennis has a pair waiting on his return home to finish. I've been curious to know how many other orders were in Jim's house. (Phil 3s or custom BMRs.) There was a nice photo on that other forum someone posted of their BMR Towers which Jim built. Same cabinet volume utilizing a "false tower" format. I would love to see a BMR tower with two woofers, myself (though I don't know if the tweeter and mid could keep up with that extra output down low... just think it would look rad! (Though maybe, switch over to the 70-20XR Raal in an MTM combination with the Tectonic BMR Mids over two 7" Revelators... Hmmmm... *scratches chin thoughtfully.... HA!)

Yup, seems I've got the DIY bug pretty bad!

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I love the way a TL speaker reproduces bass, regardless of which loading it is

I will never be able to go back.

 

[ryanosaur]

I will never be able to go back.

This is why I want to learn DIY... I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to the Phil 3...
But I will learn to build it!

 

[shadyJ]

This is why I want to learn DIY... I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to the Phil 3...
But I will learn to build it!

My question is once you have the response shape that you want and enough dynamic range to make you happy, what else is there? How do you appreciably upgrade upon that?

 

[ryanosaur]

Way to true, amigo.
My first subwoofer build is looking at a TL with Scan Speak 32W/4878T00. Only ~12", but in my little room, more than enough... especially if I can do a double driver. But I want to have the practical experience with TLs sooner than later. (Deep end, much? Yes.)
Anyway... its all just a thought process now. Maybe Ported 4 way towers with SBAcoustics drivers. We'll see.

 

[shadyJ]

Way to true, amigo.
My first subwoofer build is looking at a TL with Scan Speak 32W/4878T00. Only ~12", but in my little room, more than enough... especially if I can do a double driver. But I want to have the practical experience with TLs sooner than later. (Deep end, much? Yes.)
Anyway... its all just a thought process now. Maybe Ported 4 way towers with SBAcoustics drivers. We'll see.

I think these types of designs are incredibly ambitious for a novice speaker builder. I think you should start off with a simple two-way bookshelf speaker and go from there.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think these types of designs are incredibly ambitious for a novice speaker builder. I think you should start off with a simple two-way bookshelf speaker and go from there.

Just laughing!
Though there is truth in my plans, I'm not that silly! (Don't get me wrong... I AM silly, but that is just... well, silly.)
If it works out that Dennis and I can get together on his designs, my first thought is in building a new pair of AAs... and if possible building the new pair, and modifying my old-school Dayton Tweeter AAs to the AA+ models with the Morel Tweeters. That's the lower hanging fruit! (Those would be my Atmos speakers.)
Next up might be modifying my Selaed Mini-Phils. I would like to build new cabs and do New-Phils (ported with the 5.5" Scan Speak Revelator Driver).
So that will give me 1-2 builds using pre-made cabinets in the Dayton BR-1, and possibly 1 build with a cab I do from scratch. With a little luck, that will put me at mid-late summer, and time to look at a Sub. The cats that might help me with the modeling of a TL, I will not rush. regardless, I have two great X-13s that are behaving quite admirably. So how will I make them better? Only time will tell.
But I know drafting, and I have the rudimentary woodworking skills to allow me to do a solid cab. I know how to Solder. So its turning the diagram into a working XO layout and connecting everything properly... and learning how to finish a cabinet.
This is gonna be fun.

 

[AdrianQ]

Who has them and what do you think? I have BMRs and am thinking of upgrading if possible.

Tekton : Impact Monitor , Pendragon or Dynamic Mite?

https://www.tektondesign.com/products.html

Not sure what sound signature you were looking for but I myself was considering Tektons Monitor series

 

[Phase 2]

Tekton : Impact Monitor , Pendragon or Dynamic Mite?

https://www.tektondesign.com/products.html

Not sure what sound signature you were looking for but I myself was considering Tektons Monitor series

Thanks for posting the link! Very nice indeed!!

 

[Swerd]

… But I know drafting, and I have the rudimentary woodworking skills to allow me to do a solid cab.

If your woodworking experience is anything like mine, making solid cabinets will be difficult to teach yourself. It was worthwhile for me to pay for beginner's woodworking lessons. Or, find someone who is willing to teach you.

I know how to Solder. So its turning the diagram into a working XO layout and connecting everything properly.

I found this was easier than building cabinets. There can be many correct ways to do this. For illustrated examples of how I went from schematics to built crossover boards, see one of the attached PDFs on this link. I think it might be Part 2. These PDF documented a build I did of Dennis's MB27 speakers. I started with pre-made cabinets from Parts Express, but built the crossover boards from schematics.

... and learning how to finish a cabinet.

What I said above about woodworking skills goes triple for finishing. Most woodworking errors are invisible. But every finishing slip up will always be visible. See Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner for everything I know on the subject.

 

[ryanosaur]

Hi Swerd! Hope all is well!
I bought the flexner book at your recommendation a couple months back. It’s coming up next on my reading list. Been brushing up on joinery recently, too. My first build will be my equipment rack! Hoping to start next month. (A base frame on cones, and a ‘floating’ rack on vibration pads set inside that base frame. Gonna finish with veneer to practice my dying.)
But I really do get it. This isn’t light stuff. Pun intended.

 

[ryanosaur]

For illustrated examples of how I went from schematics to built crossover boards, see one of the attached PDFs on this link. I think it might be Part 2. These PDF documented a build I did of Dennis's MB27 speakers.

Nice write up, Swerd! thank you for sharing!!! I'm glad you had those PDF links; very easy to follow. I'm going to have to copy that when I start up.

 

[Ricardojoa]

Interesting, never heard of them before. This appears to be their version of the BMR. Looks like it measures pretty well.
http://www.selahaudio.com/tempesta-mk2-kit

The tempesta has been out long before the bmr.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

This is why I want to learn DIY... I'll never be able to afford an upgrade to the Phil 3...
But I will learn to build it!

Come on... you know you want this...

I was surfing yesterday and found a reddit thread in which a guy took in-room measurements of his TCD-110S for troubleshooting purposes. That's some mean bass for a tower that's only 130 pounds. T&A's advertised 22Hz wasn't wishful thinking.

http://imgur.com/a/ar6GO

 

[Phase 2]

Come on... you know you want this...

View attachment 29050

I was surfing yesterday and found a reddit thread in which a guy took in-room measurements of his TCD-110S for troubleshooting purposes. That's some mean bass for a tower that's only 130 pounds. T&A's advertised 22Hz wasn't wishful thinking.

http://imgur.com/a/ar6GO

Where's the hole for the Tweeter?

 

[Swerd]

only 130 pounds

Only 130 pounds !

 

[Alex2507]

Where's the hole for the Tweeter?

Maybe it's coaxial.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Maybe it's coaxial.

It's a recessed dome in a constant directivity housing. The off axis dispersion is great, but actually too good for my small room and I have them toed out about 10 degrees. Way too much presence otherwise; not bad sound, but it just wasn't right. Our next house won't come soon enough, let me tell you. F these small rooms.

 

[ryanosaur]

Nice, @Kvn_Walker . Nice. Based on everything I read so far, the line geometry seems a little weird... too narrow of a cross section perhaps, but maybe the length makes up for it(?). I’m guessing this may fit into the mass-loaded category a bit. Regardless, the proof is s in the pudding, and their lab test is pretty tight.

 

[Verdinut]

Way to true, amigo.
My first subwoofer build is looking at a TL with Scan Speak 32W/4878T00. Only ~12", but in my little room, more than enough... especially if I can do a double driver. But I want to have the practical experience with TLs sooner than later. (Deep end, much? Yes.)
Anyway... its all just a thought process now. Maybe Ported 4 way towers with SBAcoustics drivers. We'll see.

@ryanosaur,

You are just starting to venture into DIY speakers. If I were in your shoes, I would limit myself to building 3-way towers. A 4-way speaker system is quite more complex to build and obtaining good results, with added phase and polar response interactions. If you haven't bought the following book, I strongly suggest that you do:

Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook"

It will always be a great interest to read your future posts relating to your experience with the DIY process.

Cheers,