3 amps to choose from. I need more drive for Rock/Metal! Which amp should I get?

ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
For the cost of the teac (Locally around $3200) I would go with a pair of xpr1's and have 1000 watts a channel, no chance of cross talk, all the dynamic headroom you could ever need.... If you need a volume control add a preamp for $300.... the point being you can accomplish much more for much less with an Emo or Outlaw amp.. XPA2, XPR2, dual XPA1's all better choices than the teac...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I recommend you go to Audio Asylum. There are subjective opinions galore there.
That's true, I did forget that site. Some people over there probably think audio design engineers do things by trial listening for a million times in order to reach the preferred circuitry/components and finally the kind of sound that people described in fluff. Basically they are not talking about fidelity, whether they realize that themselves or not.
 
B

big2bird

Junior Audioholic
Hi,

I need a simple answer to a simple question:

Which of the 3 following amps has more driving, punchy and detailed sound character for listening to Rock/Metal:
Musical Fidelity M6i or Rotel RC-1580/RB-1582 or TEAC IA-3000?

The space is quite large (almost 50m2), and I like to play music quite loud.

Speakers: Heco The New Statement.


PS
If I had the chance to listen to them, I wouldn't be posting this...
Get one of these:Macro-Tech Series
If it works for Gratefull Dead on stage, it will rock your world.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
....At the same time, I tend to rely much more on individuals' opinions about certain pieces of equipment, on their own experience with them....
It's curious that you'd use this method.
Since those individuals you rely on have biases that will vary as much as their hearing ability.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Two words to learn

"thermal compression" Look it up, troll.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I am still waiting for non-condescendant members of the forum to give their opinions on the sound character of any of these amps for the above-mentioned music genres, based on their experience with these amps.

Spare me the "All modern solid state amplifiers have the same 'driving, punchy and detailed sound'", and "Amps don't know if you are playing rock/metal/country or western/gospel/bluegrass etc." crap. Otherwise, tell that to all 'audioholics' and Audio review magazines around the world. I'm sure they would be happy to hear these theoretically correct yet absolutely blunt statements.
It wasn't an answer with any condescending overtones. You need to remove those types of thoughts from your expectation bias in order to properly review amps.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Nestor,

Firstly, so far I didn't get any help anyway.
Secondly, I don't know what is "the truth", since it's a subjective and abstract concept.
Thirdly, the only information I got from here is that all amps sound the same, yet their only difference is the output power.
Fourthly, I have read replies about my speakers from people who haven't even looked at their specs in the first instance.

Thanks.
I actually gave you some very solid advice and that is to disabuse yourself of the notion of P.R.A.T or any of it's derivatives. Plus early in the first few posts here you were given some advice on which amp to get.

If all amps sounded different, or if pro-audio amps are junk, then for the three years that I offered, for free, two Parasound amps if you could come over and 9 out of 10 coin flips pick the Parasound vs a $179 close out Crown XLS402D then that offer would have been taken up.

You come asking for advice and then know enough to argue with that advice.

My suggestion is get all three amps from places that you can return them with no hassle. The smart person would have figured that out with having to go to an online forum.
 
J

jeff1956

Enthusiast
I can offer some input on your dilemma:

I am of the camp that says amps all sound the same.........

I am in the process of looking at amp for my Thiel SCS4t....(running Carver TFM-15CB -100wat)

I listened to the following: Thiel CS3.7

with Musical Fidelity M6i
Simaudio Moon (forgot?)
McIntosh 275 tube amp
NAD 3990 Digital amp
Marantz ?

Yes you can hear differences & yes the difference are as people talk about.....
BUT, the difference between them is very SLIGHT as compared to speakers, preamps & DAC's (peachtree NovaPRE)

My thoughts"

1st Muscial Fidelity big solid & nice top end
2nd Moon little less soldi and little less detail on top
2nd Mac per above & tie
4th marantz Yuck, soft and muddy

The only other one (I have abias)to try is a PeachTree 220

I listened to a PeachTree 220 & Bryston M135 on a Paridigm S60 speaker & compared vs a Marantz amp ,too (yuck is what I thought then, too of marantz)
Bryanton and PeachTree sounded very solid and detailed

I keep hearing of Odyssey Khitargo to listen too, also

My end thoughts: Musical Fidleity's & a Bryston's are a excellent choice. (very similar) & CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THEM

My mind is still "wondering on the PeachTree 220" (as I said, I have a bias (peachtree) and Technology & 3rd generation's always trump all in the end)
 
J

jeff1956

Enthusiast
I got lost in my dissertation and did not finish my answer to your question:

I have listened to: Pardiagm S60 speaker

I also listened to the ROTEL Power amp you mentioned with the PeachTree & Bryston & Marantz.

ROTEL is a 3rd place above marantz (rotel was solid but a bit soft on top end & make good stuff)
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
I am still waiting for non-condescendant members of the forum to give their opinions on the sound character of any of these amps for the above-mentioned music genres, based on their experience with these amps.

Spare me the "All modern solid state amplifiers have the same 'driving, punchy and detailed sound'", and "Amps don't know if you are playing rock/metal/country or western/gospel/bluegrass etc." crap. Otherwise, tell that to all 'audioholics' and Audio review magazines around the world. I'm sure they would be happy to hear these theoretically correct yet absolutely blunt statements.
I would go with a Telefunken or a Grunding. All you have to do is walk across the border for an audition. Now that's easy...
 
J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
I would go with a Telefunken or a Grunding. All you have to do is walk across the border for an audition. Now that's easy...
It's probably easier to walk across any border than finding new Grundig amplifiers.
 
B

baltun

Enthusiast
It's curious that you'd use this method.
Since those individuals you rely on have biases that will vary as much as their hearing ability.
I TEND to rely on it much more, since the marketing issue might not be as overwhelming as it might be in magazines. Yet clearly one never knows whether those posting here are affiliated to a company/store or not. In fact, isn't it more reasonable to make some sense out of the majority's coincident/similar observations/ratings, than to rely on a single magazine review..??

There's something called Quantitative Research Methods, you know..?
 
B

baltun

Enthusiast
I actually gave you some very solid advice and that is to disabuse yourself of the notion of P.R.A.T or any of it's derivatives. Plus early in the first few posts here you were given some advice on which amp to get.

You come asking for advice and then know enough to argue with that advice.

My suggestion is get all three amps from places that you can return them with no hassle. The smart person would have figured that out with having to go to an online forum.
Firstly, I'm aware that there are many "free" countries in this world, where the market is also "free", and which have effective anti-monopoly state-controlled organizations, something which, in turn, means one can order a bunch of products, test them, and then give them back. Yet it is not the case in the place where I live (the World is not only North America, Europe, and a few developed countries in Asia and Oceania...).

Secondly, I didn't create this post asking for advice on amps which others think are more adequate or better. I asked a specific question about specific amps. If you don't have any opinion about them, then what's the point of waisting your time posting here?
The fact is, with all your "expertise", no one had given me any feedback on the amps I was talking about. The only thing I got here, so far, is that many are good at talking about stuff that don't concern the central topic of the post... You really enjoy wasting your time, then.

Thirdly, and regarding point 1, perhaps you could have considered that I'm asking about these particular amps because I CAN'T buy products of any other brands, especially the American ones. Perhaps you are used to go to some fancy local Hi Fi store and test different pieces of equipment, and think everyone else in the world is as fortunate as you are. Yet this is not the case. For example, I would have to pay trice(!) for a device bought from the USA, due to taxes, etc, and which is only sold in the US.

Fourthly, and fortunately, I do have some knowledge about audio, both theory and practice. The fact that I'm asking for an advice doesn't mean I'll buy anything someone tells me. I came here to get to know your opinion on a specific topic, not your lectures on the approach one should take in tackling the whole issue of Hi Fi amplification.

I've noticed already there's a culture of "the truth" about audio here. I'm not against it, nor am I for it.

But well, I wish you all the best luck and happiness with your thr.. sorry, THE truth. Be happy, stay safe.
 
B

baltun

Enthusiast
I can offer some input on your dilemma:

I am of the camp that says amps all sound the same.........

I am in the process of looking at amp for my Thiel SCS4t....(running Carver TFM-15CB -100wat)

I listened to the following: Thiel CS3.7

with Musical Fidelity M6i
Simaudio Moon (forgot?)
McIntosh 275 tube amp
NAD 3990 Digital amp
Marantz ?

Yes you can hear differences & yes the difference are as people talk about.....
BUT, the difference between them is very SLIGHT as compared to speakers, preamps & DAC's (peachtree NovaPRE)

My thoughts"

1st Muscial Fidelity big solid & nice top end
2nd Moon little less soldi and little less detail on top
2nd Mac per above & tie
4th marantz Yuck, soft and muddy

The only other one (I have abias)to try is a PeachTree 220

I listened to a PeachTree 220 & Bryston M135 on a Paridigm S60 speaker & compared vs a Marantz amp ,too (yuck is what I thought then, too of marantz)
Bryanton and PeachTree sounded very solid and detailed

I keep hearing of Odyssey Khitargo to listen too, also

My end thoughts: Musical Fidleity's & a Bryston's are a excellent choice. (very similar) & CANNOT GO WRONG WITH THEM

My mind is still "wondering on the PeachTree 220" (as I said, I have a bias (peachtree) and Technology & 3rd generation's always trump all in the end)
Thank you a lot, jeff1956.
Finally, there's someone sane and adequate here... Your post is almost like a miracle in the midst of all this marasmus!
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Firstly, I'm aware that there are many "free" countries in this world, where the market is also "free", and which have effective anti-monopoly state-controlled organizations, something which, in turn, means one can order a bunch of products, test them, and then give them back. Yet it is not the case in the place where I live (the World is not only North America, Europe, and a few developed countries in Asia and Oceania...).
How the hell am I supposed to know where you hail from? I'm certainly not going to form my post with the fact that there are ~194 countries on the face of this earth.

Secondly, I didn't create this post asking for advice on amps which others think are more adequate or better. I asked a specific question about specific amps. If you don't have any opinion about them, then what's the point of waisting your time posting here?
Forums like this are in part to battle ignorance. When P.R.A.T like terms are used in the solicitation about amp advice, in particulars or in general, it generally helps to start from a clean slate. Stupidity is someone unwilling to correct their ignorance.

The fact is, with all your "expertise", no one had given me any feedback on the amps I was talking about. The only thing I got here, so far, is that many are good at talking about stuff that don't concern the central topic of the post... You really enjoy wasting your time, then.
You already have all the advice you need. I'm pretty sure you have in mind what amp you are going to purchase before you ever posted. So go buy it.

Thirdly, and regarding point 1, perhaps you could have considered that I'm asking about these particular amps because I CAN'T buy products of any other brands, especially the American ones. Perhaps you are used to go to some fancy local Hi Fi store and test different pieces of equipment, and think everyone else in the world is as fortunate as you are. Yet this is not the case. For example, I would have to pay trice(!) for a device bought from the USA, due to taxes, etc, and which is only sold in the US.
Which instead of being a jerk you could have started out by saying that. Let me know what country you hail from so I make sure never to set foot in it.

Fourthly, and fortunately, I do have some knowledge about audio, both theory and practice. The fact that I'm asking for an advice doesn't mean I'll buy anything someone tells me. I came here to get to know your opinion on a specific topic, not your lectures on the approach one should take in tackling the whole issue of Hi Fi amplification.
Asking about an amp for a specific musical genre is the epitome of ignorance. You think you have knowledge but it is simply the blind leading the blind in your case. If you consider getting (if one can) amplification in to try and return if not satisfied a lecture then there really is no helping you and you should probably try some other forums.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
"Trice"???

Is that a mispronunciation of "twice", which means two, or an attempt at the word "thrice", which means three times.
 
B

baltun

Enthusiast
Is that a mispronunciation of "twice", which means two, or an attempt at the word "thrice", which means three times.
Is that a statement or a question? If it is the latter, then there should be a question mark.
Anyway, I'm sure you wouldn't benefit from the respective information.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Frankly, I don't give a crap. I was just pointing out another instance that shows that you aren't as smart as you would like us to think.
 
B

baltun

Enthusiast
Frankly, I don't give a crap. I was just pointing out another instance that shows that you aren't as smart as you would like us to think.
If you assess someone’s intellect by pointing to a misspelling in someone’s writing in a foreign language (English is my third language out of 6), then definitely your good judgement just about everything else in life is highly questionable.

The fact that you keep paying so much attention to, and spending your time on something you ‘frankly don’t give a crap’ about in the first place, is quite indicative of the value of your membership and interventions in this forum.

Argumentative contradiction of the content of other people’s views is something worthy in any discussion or debate. However, picking on the form of someone’s argument, or attempting so hardly to find ways to insult the other party in such a childish manner is quite the opposite.

That said, I would like to apologize before other members of the forum, except the few who preferred to implicitly insult me right away, for my second message, which might have sounded quite arrogant and even aggressive. I have to recognize it wasn’t the most respectful manner of reacting to your previous posts.

jinjuku, I am aware that my first post sounds like the epitome of ignorance, but it was simply meant to address a specific ‘sound issue’ which I wanted to sort out, and which I tried to put in as simple terms as possible.

Perhaps you might agree that the epitome of ignorance would be for anyone in my (geographic) situation to accept right away the view of either those who say more Watts don’t matter (“quality and control matter”, they say..), or those who say more Watts is all what is needed. Different camps, - different views. Both claim to be experts, and both claim to know the “truth”. Just like the Communist vs. the Capitalist economy planning theories/programmes during the Cold War, each claiming to have the best agendas for the world economic development…

I do listen to both, but I have to be very critical regarding all information I collect, make a reasoned sense out of it all, verify it, compare it in quantitative terms, consider possible and implicit advertisement, personal bias, cultural issues (ex: North-Americans tend to go for large volumes, large dimensions, large engine displacement in car engines, etc, while Europeans tend to go for smaller, compact and more efficient solutions), and many other factors.

That’s how I try to compensate for the lack of opportunity to go to a Hi Fi store and just listen to the equipment and make a decision.

The bottom line of my message is that if this forum is really meant to effectively and thoroughly inform people, and combat ignorance, and if a new member of this forum asks a question similar to the one I did, perhaps it would be more productive to explain why buying a lot more watts would be better than getting a less powerful amp with the so-called “excellent sound quality, which plays very well genres Y, X or Z..”, and how positively that would affect the sound, instead of saying that “here’s the truth, so accept it, and if you don’t, go elsewhere”.

Thanks.
 
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