3 amps to choose from. I need more drive for Rock/Metal! Which amp should I get?

[baltun]

Hi,

I need a simple answer to a simple question:

Which of the 3 following amps has more driving, punchy and detailed sound character for listening to Rock/Metal:
Musical Fidelity M6i or Rotel RC-1580/RB-1582 or TEAC IA-3000?

The space is quite large (almost 50m2), and I like to play music quite loud.

Speakers: Heco The New Statement.


PS
If I had the chance to listen to them, I wouldn't be posting this...

 

[ski2xblack]

Subs: do you have any, or plan to in the future? (I didn't check, but I don't think any of those choices has bass management.)

Any particular allegiance to MF, Rotel, or Teac? If you keep your choice to just between those three, I would choose the one with the highest power, paying particular attention to the 4 ohm rating (the Heco's use dual woofs, almost guaranteed to be a 4 ohm load where it counts). I would not expect any of those choices to have any sort of distinctive sonic character, so if that's what you're expecting, forget about it.

Those Heco's look sharp.

 

[jinjuku]

Amps don't know if you are playing rock/metal/country or western/gospel/bluegrass etc. They are designed to take input and amplify it. I would use that as a starting point.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

With Efficiency of 93db . Impedance is stated unusually - 4-8 ohm. Which I assume minimum 4, nominal around 8
and surprising is 300W rms power handling....

Rotels are typically overpriced and MF is not rated for 4 Ohm. Out of these 4 I'd go with teac

 

[fmw]

All modern solid state amplifiers have the same "driving, punchy and detailed sound" because they don't color the sound. If your speakers are of low impedance, then you should find an amp that has a power supply good enough to deal with the current demands of low impedance speakers. Otherwise, it is just a matter of output power. As mentioned above, the type of music is immaterial.

 

[baltun]

I am still waiting for non-condescendant members of the forum to give their opinions on the sound character of any of these amps for the above-mentioned music genres, based on their experience with these amps.

Spare me the "All modern solid state amplifiers have the same 'driving, punchy and detailed sound'", and "Amps don't know if you are playing rock/metal/country or western/gospel/bluegrass etc." crap. Otherwise, tell that to all 'audioholics' and Audio review magazines around the world. I'm sure they would be happy to hear these theoretically correct yet absolutely blunt statements.

 

[chaluga]

That doesn't happen much on this forum. Many try to help you by being experts without ever heard anything but their own equipment . Pissed gene off on one thread. Dude has listened to ten times the equipment that most who post but he doesn't meet the measurement strict protocols . Better luck on another forum .

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Just FIY:
I looked up OP's username in google search and one of results was a translation from Russian - Boltun means chatterbox also windbag or blabber
His last post seems to point at that direction of correlation between the content (or the lack of) of OP's posts and his username

Was that condensing enough ?

and yes, type of music is irrelevant as far as electronics goes

 

[ImcLoud]

I am still waiting for non-condescendant members of the forum to give their opinions on the sound character of any of these amps for the above-mentioned music genres, based on their experience with these amps.

Spare me the "All modern solid state amplifiers have the same 'driving, punchy and detailed sound'", and "Amps don't know if you are playing rock/metal/country or western/gospel/bluegrass etc." crap. Otherwise, tell that to all 'audioholics' and Audio review magazines around the world. I'm sure they would be happy to hear these theoretically correct yet absolutely blunt statements.

Save your money and buy some common sense, don't come to a forum and ask a question then criticize the FREE advice you get... Go with the biggest one and shove it up your @ss..

 

[templemaners]

If you're wondering about sonic characteristics of amps, you're asking on the wrong site. Most of us don't buy into that sort of nonsense.

 

[baltun]

Dear BoredSysAdmin,
I can’t speak for other users of the forum, but as far as I am concerned, I really do mind asking for help on one particular matter, and being given pieces of ‘advice’ which are not only are totally unhelpful (since they are not based on the users’ experience with particular pieces of equipment, but only on their assumptions based on physics), but which also, for whatever reason, tend to flatten the whole issue of particular sound character of different pieces of audio equipment. The latter, as most know, is something subjective to everyone’s ear, yet clearly it represents the core of this forum and other forums and magazines’ discussions of audio equipment.
I believe I don’t need to go any further on this matter, since everyone is more than aware of this. Hence, my comment, which perhaps might have been interpreted as being a bit on the aggressive side, is nonetheless well founded. In fact, I do not even want to consider the possibility that again, because I mentioned Rock/Metal as the music genres I listen to, tends to lead people to address my post in an way which shows nothing more that arrogance presented as some sort of audiophile wisdom. I didn’t come here for that.
Since I REALLY do not have the chance to listen to any of the above-mentioned amps (it would require me to take 2 flights of more than 4 hours total + accommodation), I came here for help. At the same time, I also do not have time to access the internet only to read some school-basic physics advice about the power rate needed to drive particular speakers. Even if I would need such basic information, I still have the speakers’ user’s manual…
Thus, a priori, I thought it was quite clear what kind of input I was hoping to get from other users, i.e. their opinion on the character of these amps’ sound. If no one has such kind of experience, then I would appreciate not even posting anything, since it’s simply an unproductive way of these users to spend their time, unless they really enjoy doing it so much.
Thanks,
baltun

PS
bOltun is a different word…

PS2
Thank you, templemaners, I just got that.

 

[PENG]

If you're wondering about sonic characteristics of amps, you're asking on the wrong site. Most of us don't buy into that sort of nonsense.

I thought it has more to do with the individual threads, i.e. wrong threads rather than wrong site.

 

[Nestor]

Dear BoredSysAdmin,
I can’t speak for other users of the forum, but as far as I am concerned, I really do mind asking for help on one particular matter, and being given pieces of ‘advice’ which are not only are totally unhelpful (since they are not based on the users’ experience with particular pieces of equipment, but only on their assumptions based on physics), but which also, for whatever reason, tend to flatten the whole issue of particular sound character of different pieces of audio equipment. The latter, as most know, is something subjective to everyone’s ear, yet clearly it represents the core of this forum and other forums and magazines’ discussions of audio equipment.
I believe I don’t need to go any further on this matter, since everyone is more than aware of this. Hence, my comment, which perhaps might have been interpreted as being a bit on the aggressive side, is nonetheless well founded. In fact, I do not even want to consider the possibility that again, because I mentioned Rock/Metal as the music genres I listen to, tends to lead people to address my post in an way which shows nothing more that arrogance presented as some sort of audiophile wisdom. I didn’t come here for that.
Since I REALLY do not have the chance to listen to any of the above-mentioned amps (it would require me to take 2 flights of more than 4 hours total + accommodation), I came here for help. At the same time, I also do not have time to access the internet only to read some school-basic physics advice about the power rate needed to drive particular speakers. Even if I would need such basic information, I still have the speakers’ user’s manual…
Thus, a priori, I thought it was quite clear what kind of input I was hoping to get from other users, i.e. their opinion on the character of these amps’ sound. If no one has such kind of experience, then I would appreciate not even posting anything, since it’s simply an unproductive way of these users to spend their time, unless they really enjoy doing it so much.
Thanks,
baltun

PS
bOltun is a different word…

PS2
Thank you, templemaners, I just got that.

We can't help you if you don't want the truth. If you're looking for someone to blow smoke up your @ss, you came to the wrong forum.

 

[baltun]

Nestor,

Firstly, so far I didn't get any help anyway.
Secondly, I don't know what is "the truth", since it's a subjective and abstract concept.
Thirdly, the only information I got from here is that all amps sound the same, yet their only difference is the output power.
Fourthly, I have read replies about my speakers from people who haven't even looked at their specs in the first instance.

Thanks.

 

[fmw]

Baltun, in my case, the experience comes from years of bias controlled listening tests. Modern solid state amplifiers all sound the same as long as they aren't being overdriven. If you find one that proves to sound different in a bias controlled listening test, then it is defective or is being used improperly. That is the fact. Not opinion. Fact based on scientifically valid testing. You may want to read up on hearing bias and placebo effect. It may help you understand how our brains fool us into hearing what we expect to hear or want to hear. We all have hearing bias. It is human nature. When we control hearing bias many of these audible phenomena become inaudible.

 

[ski2xblack]

I looked at their specs. Having never heard of them before, I was curious. They look great and spec well. You like them?

There are amps with peculiar sonic signatures, but I don't think the kit you listed really falls into that category. Now a Carver Black Beauty would definitely sound different. Hell, they may even sweeten it up enough to make metal tolerable.

 

[baltun]

Baltun, in my case, the experience comes from years of bias controlled listening tests. Modern solid state amplifiers all sound the same as long as they aren't being overdriven. If you find one that proves to sound different in a bias controlled listening test, then it is defective or is being used improperly. That is the fact. Not opinion. Fact based on scientifically valid testing. You may want to read up on hearing bias and placebo effect. It may help you understand how our brains fool us into hearing what we expect to hear or want to hear. We all have hearing bias. It is human nature. When we control hearing bias many of these audible phenomena become inaudible.

fmw, this was an interesting input indeed. Thank you.
I am certainly aware of the placebo effect, especially the one caused by a high price tag or a "big name" on the front side of an item, something which is often further bolstered by a myriad of magazine articles, etc. or perhaps being a result of the latter. At the same time, I tend to rely much more on individuals' opinions about certain pieces of equipment, on their own experience with them. As such, some simple feedbacks yet the ones I consider rather useful are along these lines: "I got a pair of Cervin Vega and it was much better for Rock/Metal than the ProAC I heard before, which were making the sound confusing and lacked the punch of the CV..".
Obviously, it is not the case that I am getting a piece of equipment just because of any such post. Yet it still gives me some slight idea of the direction I might perhaps take in choosing one item over the other. Ultimately, the decision is mine anyway. As you may understand, this becomes quite important for someone who has to cross nearly half the world just to get to a decent audio dealer, who might not even have all the items I would like to listen to...

Therefore, comments such as the following one make me wonder whether it would be an adequate item for what I am looking for...
“[TEAC IA-3000 struts its stuff] in a manner that is frankly at odds with its appearance; you’d expect copious power, grip and muscle, but what I got was more akin to a Class A sound that’s open, relaxed, and super-smooth.
Bass is surprisingly short on grip, considering the muscular power transformer, but still the TEAC works well with acoustic material, and goes down low in a natural, easy and undemonstrative fashion. Ultimately then, the whole presentation is on the soft side, which isn’t such a bad thing with many crisp sounding modern speakers I suppose, although headbangers should look elsewhere.” HI FI Choice, FEB 2012

Could you then say it's all bull@£%t, and that TEAC would perform in exactly the same manner as, say, the MF M6i? (Rhetorical question)

Thanks.

 

[baltun]

They look great and spec well. You like them?

Well, in my opinion, Heco The New Statement have a velvety, involving, and large-scale sound, both in width and in depth. Sort of “St. Peter’s Cathedral sound”. I would give them a 4+ mark in reproducing different kinds of “soft music”, such as Jazz, Pop, GSO, and a variety of acoustic instrumentals. But when it comes to Rock and especially Metal, they need more straightforwardness and an in-your face sound character. In other words, except for a few recordings, they usually don’t “blow you away”, which is something I would like to feel when playing heavier stuff. Moreover, when playing complex (well recorded) Metal recordings, there often seems to be some lack of instruments’ separation and cohesion. Ultimately, in these cases they sound a bit like coming of a huge yet classy pipe!

However, I am almost certain that the biggest reasons for these less positive issues are due to both the amp and the room’s (if one can call it a room..) acoustics. The current amp is an old and cheap Yamaha rated 85 Watt/channel/8ohm. In fact, it is so weak for the Hecos start distorting on Fortissimos on Anna Netrebka’s recordings just past 10 o’clock volume position.

The space.. well, it has a huge hole in the roof of the second floor, - a weird idea of a semi (or perhaps totally)-schizophrenic architect who designed my house… Thus there are two identical nearly 50m2 rooms on the second and the third floors, which are open between each other by this 10m2 whole in between. Clearly, this is hell for acoustics, and this is why, probably, faster and punchier recordings also just end up sounding mushier.
I really hope a good amp will partly improve that.

 

[baltun]

Subs: do you have any, or plan to in the future? (I didn't check, but I don't think any of those choices has bass management.)

Any particular allegiance to MF, Rotel, or Teac? If you keep your choice to just between those three, I would choose the one with the highest power, paying particular attention to the 4 ohm rating (the Heco's use dual woofs, almost guaranteed to be a 4 ohm load where it counts). I would not expect any of those choices to have any sort of distinctive sonic character, so if that's what you're expecting, forget about it.

Those Heco's look sharp.

No, I'm not planning any subs, and I don't have any allegiances either. I just want more drive, that's all...

 

[fmw]

fmw, this was an interesting input indeed. Thank you.
I am certainly aware of the placebo effect, especially the one caused by a high price tag or a "big name" on the front side of an item, something which is often further bolstered by a myriad of magazine articles, etc. or perhaps being a result of the latter. At the same time, I tend to rely much more on individuals' opinions about certain pieces of equipment, on their own experience with them. As such, some simple feedbacks yet the ones I consider rather useful are along these lines: "I got a pair of Cervin Vega and it was much better for Rock/Metal than the ProAC I heard before, which were making the sound confusing and lacked the punch of the CV..".
Obviously, it is not the case that I am getting a piece of equipment just because of any such post. Yet it still gives me some slight idea of the direction I might perhaps take in choosing one item over the other. Ultimately, the decision is mine anyway. As you may understand, this becomes quite important for someone who has to cross nearly half the world just to get to a decent audio dealer, who might not even have all the items I would like to listen to...

Therefore, comments such as the following one make me wonder whether it would be an adequate item for what I am looking for...
“[TEAC IA-3000 struts its stuff] in a manner that is frankly at odds with its appearance; you’d expect copious power, grip and muscle, but what I got was more akin to a Class A sound that’s open, relaxed, and super-smooth.
Bass is surprisingly short on grip, considering the muscular power transformer, but still the TEAC works well with acoustic material, and goes down low in a natural, easy and undemonstrative fashion. Ultimately then, the whole presentation is on the soft side, which isn’t such a bad thing with many crisp sounding modern speakers I suppose, although headbangers should look elsewhere.” HI FI Choice, FEB 2012

Could you then say it's all bull@£%t, and that TEAC would perform in exactly the same manner as, say, the MF M6i? (Rhetorical question)

Thanks.

Since it is rhetorical, I won't answer it. I will say that, if you want the kind of feedback you seek, I recommend you go to Audio Asylum. There are subjective opinions galore there.