1880's Barn Audio

[GGerg1186]

I have a barn built in the 1880's that I am turning the hay loft into a entertainment space. The loft is 40' x 60, with a 28' peak at the ceiling. I am doing this on a budget, pool table, ping pong, air hockey, whatever I find on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for cheap. Looking to add some speakers.

I currently have a Rotel RB1050 amp with a bluetooth antennae connected to a par of pioneer speaker boxes. I have a lead on some 3/4" MDS board for cheap, and want to build ten speaker boxes. I am thinking a 15" sub, 6x9" and 3" speaker per box. The Rotel amp has two channels, by the time I hook up 15 speakers in parallel, even with 8 ohms, I will be at 0.53 ohm impedance per channel. The manual recommends 4 ohm. Do I just make sure I don't turn the volume up too high? If I need more amp it will have to wait until I get some more cash. Can I build the speaker boxes now and upgrade the amp later?

I am not looking to host concerts on this sound system, just provide a place for Boy Scouts to camp and throw a few big @$$ barbeques.

 

[Replicant 7]

Nice Barn, umm that's a hard pull on that amp. Don't know if your Rotel is 2 Ohm stable. I'd hate to see you cook that amp. You need to hit @PENG or @TLS Guy up them two AH members can assist you further on your endeavor. Now the cool Barn! Maybe get two or three, Daisy Duke girls in helping you raise funds for your upgrades. What boys club wouldn't like a couple of Daisy Duke girls serving ice cold brews. $20 buck cover charger at the door or in your case at the bottom of the stairs.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Man! I would throw a big a$$ projector screen on that far wall and pick up a used projector for some 180" movie watching in there.

For your speakers, I'm not sure exactly what you're building, but you need to set them up in a series/parallel wiring scheme so that your final load sits somewhere between 4 and 8 ohms. You still really need a lot more power to run everything and if the goal is basic 'stereo' reproduction from the speakers, then I would definitely consider a 12 or 16 channel amplifier to drive them all. Those run about $300-$500 or more on eBay for acceptable models. Rotel would be a fair bit more.

 

[GGerg1186]

With more investigation it seems I should take a different route.

I think I may buy ten of these: 60W 2 channel Pyle Amp - Amazon and have one amp at each speaker. Then I will get a bit of zone to zone control and have up to 600W of power for around $400. I would sell the Rotel setup to help fund the discrete amplifiers.

Would that work a bit better?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Have you considered pro gear?

 

[highfigh]

With more investigation it seems I should take a different route.

I think I may buy ten of these: 60W 2 channel Pyle Amp - Amazon and have one amp at each speaker. Then I will get a bit of zone to zone control and have up to 600W of power for around $400. I would sell the Rotel setup to help fund the discrete amplifiers.

Would that work a bit better?

DO NOT use Pyle, anything! Rating those at 60W is totally inaccurate.

The fact that you wrote "I am doing this on a budget" means that you're going to have problems if you adhere to whatever amount you have decided on. This is a large space and if you want it to get up & go, you'll need to move a lot of air and drive the speakers with more power than you expect and that's just to achieve a sound level that's comfortable, not loud.

Almost no amplifiers will survive being connected to .53 Ohms and the ones that can do so because their protection circuits will shut off the connection to the speakers. Any amplifier would overheat if you were to connect the speakers in parallel and that's because the current in the circuit would be excessive. Any amplifier has limits and those are based on the output transistors, heat sinks, line voltage, etc.

You need to look at the speaker load as if you were selecting a fuse for a circuit- the voltage measured for 100W with an 8 Ohm load is 28.3VAC and the Current would be about 3.5Amperes. 28.3VAC with a load of .53 Ohms results in calculated Power of more than 1500W and Current of more than 53 Amperes. No amplifier that I know of would handle that without being destroyed.

If you're referring to 6x9 car speakers, you need to understand that those are rated at 4 Ohms, not 8 Ohms.

How much is your time worth? You may be able to get a deal on the MDF, but you'll also need the time & equipment to process it, the boxes will need to be the correct volume for the speakers and you still need to install everything.

The best way to design an audio system for such a large space is by:

- Determining the need for coverage- do a layout drawing for the pool table, etc and make sure the speakers aren't going to blast people where they won't want to be bombarded by sound- this means you'll need to know how the sound from the speakers will cover the area, and from what distance. The sound comes from the speakers in a cone, wider or narrower based on the design of the drivers. Too much overlap or gaps in the coverage will result in areas where it's too loud or quiet- you want even coverage.
- How loud does it need to be? That will be determined by speaker sensitivity, coverage, amplifier power and speaker power capacity.
- Speaker height- the 28' peak means almost nothing WRT an audio system unless the speakers absolutely must be mounted there and you really don't want to mount the speakers that far from the floor because it will not only reflect too much, it will also require more power to achieve a usable output level.

Placing the speakers at about 12' would be easier and result in better sound.

 

[GGerg1186]

The fact that you wrote "I am doing this on a budget" means that you're going to have problems if you adhere to whatever amount you have decided on.

Is there a modular approach to adding sound over time? Not looking to use my barn as a dance hall, and it is difficult to justify multiple thousands right now on a space that will be used 4-6 times a year.

Today I have enough speaker coverage for about 500sqft with two cabinets attached to the Rotel amp. Looking to increase the coverage area to allow for more listening without loud spots. Again the space is for social gatherings, not necessarily a concert venue.

 

[Eppie]

Is there a modular approach to adding sound over time? Not looking to use my barn as a dance hall, and it is difficult to justify multiple thousands right now on a space that will be used 4-6 times a year.

Today I have enough speaker coverage for about 500sqft with two cabinets attached to the Rotel amp. Looking to increase the coverage area to allow for more listening without loud spots. Again the space is for social gatherings, not necessarily a concert venue.

If this is only 4 to 6 times per year on a small budget, I would start small and scale up later as needed. You only want back ground music for those activities. The amp is rated at 4 ohms minimum, so you could connect two 8 ohm speakers in parallel on each channel, or connect two 4 ohm speakers in series on each channel. Place a speaker in each corner for now and see how the coverage is.

According to the manual that amp has both a line input and a signal output (link). This allows you to connect the signal out to the input of another amp. If the Rotel and 4 speakers is not enough, you can feed another amp from the Rotel and add another 2 or 4 speakers. Preferably add an amp with input controls so that you adjust the levels. If the second amp has a trigger input, you can use the 12V trigger out on the Rotel to turn the other amp on at the same time.

 

[highfigh]

Is there a modular approach to adding sound over time? Not looking to use my barn as a dance hall, and it is difficult to justify multiple thousands right now on a space that will be used 4-6 times a year.

Today I have enough speaker coverage for about 500sqft with two cabinets attached to the Rotel amp. Looking to increase the coverage area to allow for more listening without loud spots. Again the space is for social gatherings, not necessarily a concert venue.

But as a social gathering spot, it's best to make the guests happy and there's no reason to blast some people out of the room and leave others wanting more. Even sound distribution is much more pleasant and because it doesn't involve large/expensive speakers, it's easier to do on a budget. I'm not saying the speakers can't or shouldn't be expensive, but choices need to be made.

One way to get the best coverage is by looking at the dispersion specs provided by the manufacturers- if you can't find much for specs, move onto the next brand. JBL is one example of a company that provides very useful dispersion specs but they're pretty technical because they're meant for people who design systems for a living and they need to know what the speakers will do. Once you have the dispersion angles, you can make a drawing of the space and if you want to make it easy to move the speaker locations, cutouts of the cone help.

FYI- in theory, reducing the distance from speaker to listener or mic by half increases the level by approximately 6dB, which is the same effect as quadrupling the power output. NOTE- this applies only to an acoustical space where the sound doesn't reflect, so you won't have the same results. However, more distance will result in more reflected sound and that's not what you want.

I WANT YOUR BARN!

 

[Eppie]

JBL is one example of a company that provides very useful dispersion specs but they're pretty technical because they're meant for people who design systems for a loving and they need to know what the speakers will do.
<snip>
I WANT YOUR BARN!

I think they're meant for people who design systems for a living, but it certainly helps if you love your job.

Yeah.... who would not love to have a big open space for music and fun!

 

[highfigh]

I think they're meant for people who design systems for a living, but it certainly helps if you love your job.

Yeah.... who would not love to have a big open space for music and fun!

Re-read my post- I don't know what you're trying to say.

They live the life they love and love the life they live.

 

[GGerg1186]

More I research, the more I think I should just buy some Yamaha DBR12's one at a time until I have ten of them in the barn.
Yamaha DBR12 Powered Speaker | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com)

 

[GGerg1186]

I WANT YOUR BARN!

Yeah, it's a fantastic space, I bought the house for the barn, the house isn't bad either. Nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away, my coonhound can sing all she wants, neighbors donkey may respond once in a while.

 

[BMXTRIX]

More I research, the more I think I should just buy some Yamaha DBR12's one at a time until I have ten of them in the barn.
Yamaha DBR12 Powered Speaker | Musician's Friend (musiciansfriend.com)

You can look at something like that, but for that money you can pick up a used 12 channel amplifier on eBay which will give you 60 watts per channel for clean power to up to 24 speakers (2 per channel). Many amps can have their outputs bridged to provide even higher power per speaker if you want to add another amp in the future. More importantly, these are designed from the start with the idea that a dozen speakers will be connected to them at a time. These amps are big, well built, and heavy. This is what pros use in these types of setups to get a lot of audio, at good levels, everywhere in a space.

More importantly, on your budget, you may find some models which do exactly what you want at a reasonable price from the start. You can pick up the proper amp, then just put in as many speakers as your budget allows. But, when you want more speakers, you can get them knowing the amplifier can handle it.

I have bought a dozen or more amps off of eBay for running a lot of speakers and MOST have performed great right out of the box. Only a couple had to be returned (not at my expense!) because they didn't work as advertised.

The two on this list I really like are the Sonance 1250. That amp weighs about 80 pounds. It's crazy good. I'm not sure if the condition of the amp encourages me, but it may be perfect for your setup. Also, the SpeakerCraft model is very good and SpeakerCraft has a long reputation of quality products. They were used a ton in installs over the years, and there is a lot of their stuff on eBay at a great price. These amps were all well over $1,000 when new.

Examples...

B&K AV1260 12 Channel Home Theater Power Amplifier - Audio Video Power Amp | eBay

Here we have the impressive AV1260 from B&K. This unit is in very clean condition and functions great. Features: 12 channels providing 55 WPC at 8Ω or 85 WPC at 4Ω. Each channel can be assigned Left, Right or Mono.

www.ebay.com

Sonance SONAMP 1250 MKII 12 Channel Power Amplifier | eBay

You are buying a Sonance SONAMP 1250 MKII 12 Channel Power Amplifier. WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET.

www.ebay.com

SpeakerCraft BB1235 12 Channel Power Amplifier for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SpeakerCraft BB1235 12 Channel Power Amplifier at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

If you could swing a bit more, the higher power amps cost a bit more, but may be worth it. NOTE! The SpeakerCraft 1235 models allow for you to bridge channels. So, a 12 channel amp with 35 watts per channel, becomes a 6 channel amp with 60 or 70 watts per channel. Adding a second amp with 12 total speakers effectively doubles the amount of power to those speakers. Also, if you want to have more speakers, they are stable with 4 ohm loads, capable of driving up to 24 speakers per amplifier!

More than $400 shipped to your door, but under $600 with 50+ watts per channel and in good condition (yes, I am scouring eBay for you here)...

Niles Audio SI-1260 Black 12-Channel Multi-Room Power Integration Amplifier | eBay

Model: Niles Audio SI-1260. Type : Power Integration Amplifier. Color : Black.

www.ebay.com

SpeakerCraft Big Bang BB1265 12 Channel Power Amplifier/ Amp - YOU SHIP it | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SpeakerCraft Big Bang BB1265 12 Channel Power Amplifier/ Amp - YOU SHIP it at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Sonance SONAMP | 1250 MKII Power Amp | Includes Power Cord | ■S■ TESTED ■S■ | eBay

Sonance SONAMP | 1250 MKII Power Amp | Includes Power Cord | ■S■ TESTED ■S■.

www.ebay.com

For speakers, I would put a bunch of 8" 3-way speakers into MDF back boxes which you make yourself out of the materials you have available. Then build the subwoofers separately, in the future, for when you want things to really rock. Put some speakers like this into the back boxes you build and mount, and you will have amazing sound in the space with 6 pairs...

Monoprice Caliber 8in Fiber In-Wall Speakers 3-Way (pair) - Monoprice.com

In-wall speakers allow you to expand your listening environment throughout your entire home, as well as removing the clutter of giant box speakers, giving you back your living sp

www.monoprice.com

Total cost: About $1,000. You would need some speaker wire for all of it as well.

 

[GGerg1186]

You can look at something like that, but ...

Total cost: About $1,000. You would need some speaker wire for all of it as well.

Outstanding, thank you!

I will check this out

 

[GGerg1186]

Doing a bit of research on used 1230's to 1260's amps, price break between 35W/ch and 50-65W/ch is pretty small. Feels worth it to double the amp power for an extra 80 bucks. Monoprice speakers capable of 100W's, 50-65W amp is a good starting point, can consider upgrading the amp at a later time. I think I want to make sure the 12ch amp has distinct zone volume control, to ensure one area isn't significantly out of balance to the others.

Start with 8 Monoprice 6816 speakers in the barn, and two exterior speakers above the deck outside. Have two open channels that I can find a use for at some other time. Calculations suggest these speakers have limited bass, even with tuned box volume.

Will likely keep the Rotel RB1050 and use each channel to power two 8ohm subs in parallel, one in each corner of the barn. While a 12XX amp powers the mids and highs.

I am getting 12 sheets of 3/4" MDS for $60 to build boxes.

Initial investment under $1800, with opportunity to upgrade power later if needed, seems reasonable.

 

[highfigh]

For speakers, I would put a bunch of 8" 3-way speakers into MDF back boxes which you make yourself out of the materials you have available. Then build the subwoofers separately, in the future, for when you want things to really rock. Put some speakers like this into the back boxes you build and mount, and you will have amazing sound in the space with 6 pairs...

Monoprice Caliber 8in Fiber In-Wall Speakers 3-Way (pair) - Monoprice.com

In-wall speakers allow you to expand your listening environment throughout your entire home, as well as removing the clutter of giant box speakers, giving you back your living sp

www.monoprice.com

Total cost: About $1,000. You would need some speaker wire for all of it as well.

It would be easier to use indoor/outdoor speakers with subs- the speakers can be aimed, too.

 

[highfigh]

Doing a bit of research on used 1230's to 1260's amps, price break between 35W/ch and 50-65W/ch is pretty small. Feels worth it to double the amp power for an extra 80 bucks. Monoprice speakers capable of 100W's, 50-65W amp is a good starting point, can consider upgrading the amp at a later time. I think I want to make sure the 12ch amp has distinct zone volume control, to ensure one area isn't significantly out of balance to the others.

Start with 8 Monoprice 6816 speakers in the barn, and two exterior speakers above the deck outside. Have two open channels that I can find a use for at some other time. Calculations suggest these speakers have limited bass, even with tuned box volume.

Will likely keep the Rotel RB1050 and use each channel to power two 8ohm subs in parallel, one in each corner of the barn. While a 12XX amp powers the mids and highs.

I am getting 12 sheets of 3/4" MDS for $60 to build boxes.

Initial investment under $1800, with opportunity to upgrade power later if needed, seems reasonable.

Speakers placed outdoors need a lot more power in order to be heard well- if you want to make them work more efficiently, aim them toward the building. That way, you're not trying to provide sound for anything outside of the deck. If you're actually trying to cover the area away from the building, you're gonna need a lot more power- even fairly large speakers seem like little ones when they're outside.

 

[GGerg1186]

Speakers placed outdoors need a lot more power in order to be heard well- if you want to make them work more efficiently, aim them toward the building.

The deck is 14x18, 252sq ft. and is more of a "get away from the noise and talk" space. Rocking the deck is not the goal.

Thumping inside the barn? I'll get there.

Getting a noise complaint from my neighbors a 1/2 mile away because my barn is louder than the race track 3 miles away? If I win the lottery.

 

[highfigh]

The deck is 14x18, 252sq ft. and is more of a "get away from the noise and talk" space. Rocking the deck is not the goal.

Thumping inside the barn? I'll get there.

Getting a noise complaint from my neighbors a 1/2 mile away because my barn is louder than the race track 3 miles away? If I win the lottery.

Aiming them toward the building isn't about avoiding complaints, it's so you don't waste power trying to cover the areas where the sound isn't needed- it uses the building to reinforce the sound.

This is what you REALLY need- the 6th woofer is at the lower left.

If it matters, she's 5'-8" tall.