Anyone else went phantom??tips advice

[Kingnoob]

By default the sub always gets the LFE channel on most setups - if you have a crossover set (ie: mains are not full range) - then the sub "should" also get the part of the frequency range from the Mains which is below the XO point.

But when the AVR is set to "stereo" - then bass management may or may not be involved, depending on the AVR setup.brand etc...

Most AVR's also have a Direct or Pure-Direct mode - where the channels are passed through untouched to their respective speakers - typically that should disable XO's and if fed a simple stereo signal should output only to L&R.

The other thing to watch for, is how the sub is hooked into the system - so far I have assumed the sub was connected to the Sub output of an AVR, but lots of subs have alternative options - my Gallo sub has an input and an output for the L/R mains at speaker level, and then it acts as the crossover (adjustable for frequency, level and phase)...

If your sub is set up this way - with the XO being in the sub, then all signals fed out, will result in sound from the sub (depending on LF content obviously).

My other sub has those but they broke and i couldn’t find the parts to fix them. This is the main sub I’m using the other one is mostly turned off .

 

[dlaloum]

My other sub has those but they broke and i couldn’t find the parts to fix them. This is the main sub I’m using the other one is mostly turned off . View attachment 68112

So your adjustments are the Low Pass filter (cross over) - Phase and level/volume...

Just make sure the LP is set to the highest possible frequency, so the AVR can do its thing (the XO / LP will be in the AVR not the sub)... Phase is typically also handled by any of the more advanced AVR's - but may require experimenting with if your AVR doesn't do that.

 

[Kingnoob]

So your adjustments are the Low Pass filter (cross over) - Phase and level/volume...

Just make sure the LP is set to the highest possible frequency, so the AVR can do its thing (the XO / LP will be in the AVR not the sub)... Phase is typically also handled by any of the more advanced AVR's - but may require experimenting with if your AVR doesn't do that.

Yes I think it’s correct.

 

[Kingnoob]

By default the sub always gets the LFE channel on most setups - if you have a crossover set (ie: mains are not full range) - then the sub "should" also get the part of the frequency range from the Mains which is below the XO point.

But when the AVR is set to "stereo" - then bass management may or may not be involved, depending on the AVR setup.brand etc...

Most AVR's also have a Direct or Pure-Direct mode - where the channels are passed through untouched to their respective speakers - typically that should disable XO's and if fed a simple stereo signal should output only to L&R.

The other thing to watch for, is how the sub is hooked into the system - so far I have assumed the sub was connected to the Sub output of an AVR, but lots of subs have alternative options - my Gallo sub has an input and an output for the L/R mains at speaker level, and then it acts as the crossover (adjustable for frequency, level and phase)...

If your sub is set up this way - with the XO being in the sub, then all signals fed out, will result in sound from the sub (depending on LF content obviously).

It’s tempting to run my towers full range or 40/50hz my subs aren’t exactly top notch they are entry level .

Search for TV Stands at Amazon. I found a nice looking one for about <$50 that did the trick. One like this you could adjust to either put the speaker on the base or have the TV lower and put the base on the speaker:

Amazon.com: Universal Swivel TV Stand/Base Table Top TV Stand 32 to 70 inch TVs 80 Degree Swivel, 4 Level Height Adjustable, Heavy Duty Tempered Glass Base, Holds up to 88lbs Screens, HT04B-002 : Electronics

This is just an example. There are quite a few options besides this one that may better suit your need.

IMO, the center is probably the most important speaker sound while watching TV. IOW, I wouldn't go phantom.

I don’t need anything fancy if it will fit my center channel this would do ! So long as it’s the best product for the value.

 

[dlaloum]

It’s tempting to run my towers full range or 40/50hz my subs aren’t exactly top notch they are entry level .

I don’t need anything fancy if it will fit my center channel this would do ! So long as it’s the best product for the value.

The "dolby spec" for the LFE channel subwooder only requires it to go down to 31hz or so...

Which is not to say there is no signal below that - but the minimum requirement for a theatre is 31Hz.

So if you have full range speakers that go down to around 30 to 40Hz you can get very satisfying performance!

If your speakers can go down that far, and you also have a sub, most AVR's have a "double bass" option, where full range speakers are used along with the LFE sub - this will provide more even bass performance throughout the room, but it will also allow for higher SPL's, as you then have the equivalent of 3 Subs delivering the effects.

Currently my setup is 5.1.4, with both mains and surround speakers being full range, extending down to below 35Hz, and a small sub providing the rest - I have found the result to be very good.

 

[Kingnoob]

The "dolby spec" for the LFE channel subwooder only requires it to go down to 31hz or so...

Which is not to say there is no signal below that - but the minimum requirement for a theatre is 31Hz.

So if you have full range speakers that go down to around 30 to 40Hz you can get very satisfying performance!

If your speakers can go down that far, and you also have a sub, most AVR's have a "double bass" option, where full range speakers are used along with the LFE sub - this will provide more even bass performance throughout the room, but it will also allow for higher SPL's, as you then have the equivalent of 3 Subs delivering the effects.

Currently my setup is 5.1.4, with both mains and surround speakers being full range, extending down to below 35Hz, and a small sub providing the rest - I have found the result to be very good.

Yeah I’ve been testing this out , I seemed to run out of steam during lotr fellowship. The bass went flat like one note that overpowered everything. Sounded fine past the dungeon scene . Full range sounds fine w/ double bass although many warn about this setting. Say it causes comb filtering.

 

[dlaloum]

Yeah I’ve been testing this out , I seemed to run out of steam during lotr fellowship. The bass went flat like one note that overpowered everything. Sounded fine past the dungeon scene . Full range sounds fine w/ double bass although many warn about this setting. Say it causes comb filtering.

You may have some nodes/nulls in your room (that "one note" sound?)

Systems like DLBC are designed to overcome that... and DL-ART goes one better, but isn't really out yet.

 

[JerryLove]

Phantom center Channel set up and help them . The right speaker was more toed in but it got flattened . Last two pics were the floor were my tv stand is stuck I can’t move it over more . My main audio source is spectrum cable app which is 2.0 stereo I get some strange bass effects to the sub channels from it .

What's your question. Setting up for phantom is just like setting up for stereo.

 

[JerryLove]

It’s tempting to run my towers full range or 40/50hz my subs aren’t exactly top notch they are entry level .

The towers are not likely to be in a good position for room interaction at those frequencies and you risk cancellation.

By all means try it (it looks like you may have in a later post); but I think well positioned, most subs will do better for you for LF than the speakers.

 

[Kingnoob]

The towers are not likely to be in a good position for room interaction at those frequencies and you risk cancellation.

By all means try it (it looks like you may have in a later post); but I think well positioned, most subs will do better for you for LF than the speakers.

Better off going back to 60/80hz ?

What's your question. Setting up for phantom is just like setting up for stereo.

Where does the LFE? signal come from? If the content source is stereo.

 

[JerryLove]

Better off going back to 60/80hz ?

Typically, yes. The placement needs of non-localized frequencies (Sub frequencies) are generally different than those of localizable frequencies.

Where does the LFE? signal come from? If the content source is stereo.

It's scrapped off the L and R signals with a crossover in the receiver. The same is true on surround sound (otherwise you couldn't change the crossover point).

 

[Kingnoob]

Typically, yes. The placement needs of non-localized frequencies (Sub frequencies) are generally different than those of localizable frequencies.


It's scrapped off the L and R signals with a crossover in the receiver. The same is true on surround sound (otherwise you couldn't change the crossover point).

I’ll try 80 for a while, I had it at 60 after I made that post . 40/50 too low and fronts are in a bad location for bass one side is open floor plan doorway.

 

[Kingnoob]

Search for TV Stands at Amazon. I found a nice looking one for about <$50 that did the trick. One like this you could adjust to either put the speaker on the base or have the TV lower and put the base on the speaker:

Amazon.com: Universal Swivel TV Stand/Base Table Top TV Stand 32 to 70 inch TVs 80 Degree Swivel, 4 Level Height Adjustable, Heavy Duty Tempered Glass Base, Holds up to 88lbs Screens, HT04B-002 : Electronics

This is just an example. There are quite a few options besides this one that may better suit your need.

IMO, the center is probably the most important speaker sound while watching TV. IOW, I wouldn't go phantom.

How can you tell which of these stands? Leave it enough space for the center speaker. Or do all of them??

 

[Hobbit]

How can you tell which of these stands? Leave it enough space for the center speaker. Or do all of them??

Look at the picture in the link I posted. They show measurements.

For instance, the 32-70" stand is configurable to a max of 31.4" to the top mounting hole. Measure the distance on your TV from the top mounting hole to the bottom of the tv. Now take 31.4 minus what you just measured and you'll have the distance under the TV.

On my 85" TV there's 21" from the top mounting hole to the bottom of the TV. Thus, 31.4-21=10.4. Which means I can put a center speaker up to about 10" under it.

 

[Kingnoob]

Look at the picture in the link I posted. They show measurements.

For instance, the 32-70" stand is configurable to a max of 31.4" to the top mounting hole. Measure the distance on your TV from the top mounting hole to the bottom of the tv. Now take 31.4 minus what you just measured and you'll have the distance under the TV.

On my 85" TV there's 21" from the top mounting hole to the bottom of the TV. Thus, 31.4-21=10.4. Which means I can put a center speaker up to about 10" under it.

thanks
Yeah the math was so confusing looking at the Amazon link etc … I wish they just told you how much space there was underneath it.

 

[Kingnoob]

Trying to decide on books vs towers for surrounds.
there about the same height counting stands .
I don’t know if Andrew Jones towers are a good match for my icons .

The books on stand are 6” shorter then my fronts .

I’ll probably just stick to using Klipsch . No reason to mix brands.

 

[dlaloum]

I picked up an old but excellent condition pair of B&O Penta towers.... they are now acting as by rear/surround in my 5.1.4 setup.

Mid bass is substantially improved with full range all around!

 

[Kingnoob]

I picked up an old but excellent condition pair of B&O Penta towers.... they are now acting as by rear/surround in my 5.1.4 setup.

Mid bass is substantially improved with full range all around!

I don’t think these pioneers are as good as those or even close, but they would take less space then sitting a bookshelf speaker ontop a tv tray or speaker stand . Tough call, Klipsch is more dynamic the bookshelves might work. Right now the way it set up. It gets too loud. Gotta remove the useless speakers ontop my towers .

 

[Kingnoob]

A phantom center is really just stereo imaging. Just set your system to a 2 channels or 2.1 system and you will get the phantom center - so long as you are listening at a point equidistant from both speakers.

Yeah I noticed it sounds really good just with 2.1 or 2.2.
I Shut the top speakers off they are beaming or something.. prologic height 2Z isn’t working in my current room . Not enough separation from the towers.
I’ll set it up for 4.2ch last picture of the prologic height 2Z for now here.

My stacked subs the top one has too much port noise . I’ll have to move it to another spot .or not use it at all …

 

[Kingnoob]

Turns out the subs were canceling each other out. Moved the klh one to front and the jamo sounds significantly better and louder . It looks kinda of crooked I’ll fix it later on ..

Not sure if I should get an actual riser if it would do anything? Or sub pad thing .??