JL F212 to dual SVS PB13 Ultra

J

JonnyFive23517

Audioholic
The elevation and some of the roll off in the top frequencies is mostly Audyssey. I don't listen to music with it in that mode, but it sounds good with movies. For music, I use bypass mains for Audyssey. I don't have any direct control over the panels, just at the mercy of Audyssey. Maybe I need to get the custom installer deal so I can tailor it a bit. The panels cross in at about 250hz and play the rest of the way up. I ended up with an 80hz crossover on the mains as it yielded by far the best integration where as before I was running them full range.
Your FR graph looks incredible in the bass regions, I wouldn't even worry about that small dip at 120hz. You mentioned you prefer the 80hz crossover, have you tried 60hz and didn't like it as much?
 
H

Hocky

Full Audioholic
Your FR graph looks incredible in the bass regions, I wouldn't even worry about that small dip at 120hz. You mentioned you prefer the 80hz crossover, have you tried 60hz and didn't like it as much?
I didn't do much listening with it there because the 60hz crossover point caused significant change in the low end frequency response. It is amazing how much the mains affect the FR even with an 80hz crossover. The biggest improvement came from dialing my 25hz knob on my mains back to -10db despite being cross over octaves higher. Pulling the 25hz region down 10db on each speaker eliminated the 6-7db valley that went from 45-70hz.
 
H

Hocky

Full Audioholic
So, I found some time to put the JL back in place, run its calibration and Audyssey (no further external EQ), and grab another measurement of it as well as test its limits compared to the SVS combo.

Frequency response was not in the same planet, but to be fair the dual subs have the obvious advantage with placement and more EQ. In any case, the low end output of the JL falls off hard compared to the SVS. 15hz output from the JL is pathetic compared to the SVS in the 16hz port.. The waterfall plots seem similar, but I couldn't get the JL to do the SPL in the low frequencies that I measured the others at, so it isn't exactly a fair comparison, either. I am surprised to say the least.

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
That is surprising. Your room might be one, like mine, that works a lot better with multiple bass sources. You might consider trying a test where you're running the mains full-range and then run Audyssey.
 
H

Hocky

Full Audioholic
That is surprising. Your room might be one, like mine, that works a lot better with multiple bass sources. You might consider trying a test where you're running the mains full-range and then run Audyssey.
That yielded the best results for me before, but I didn't try it because that wasn't the point of the test. There are no real nulls, so I could eq it very close to the SVS, but the output isn't there. The JL was done at like 84db at 18hz. The SVS saw better than 90 without sounding like it was breaking a sweat - I stopped turning it up.
 
H

Hocky

Full Audioholic
I guess that I owe everyone a final review now that everything is finalized and I've gotten some listening time. I spent some time setting the JL back up, testing, comparing, and then finally setting the SVS back up and tweaking to perfection via placement and miniDSP. Here are my final findings:
Physical:
The SVS fit/finish is pretty good. The veneer is decent, everything looks well assembled, and it feels like a quality piece. Cabinet inertness based on the knuckle test is good, but not in the same planet as the JL... the JL is much more dense and dead. JL's fit/finish may be just slightly better, but it isn't offered with any veneer so comparison isn't really fair. My F212 has the satin finish and it is very well done and durable. There is not a scratch on it anywhere after 2 years of use where as the SVS has one very small knick in the veneer already near a corner. Bummer. The JL also has pretty lame post mount grills vs the SVS's much nicer internal magnet design. Of course, the dual PB13 take up very significantly more floor space.... even a single PB13 does. If I was choosing between the two based on appearance and feel alone, I would definitely choose the JL, but not by a large margin.

Performance:
In my room, the dual PB13 by far exceed the capabilities of the F212 at nearly every metric. I would bet that a single PB13 probably would, too. The JL is a bit easier to set up being that it has built in room correction, but honestly it is a poor implementation at best. The built in PEQ filters of the SVS subs allow for significantly improved frequency response over the autocorrection in the JL, but it obviously does require external measurements and tweaking knowledge. I was able to get very significantly better response (with just Audyssey and the built in correction) with the dual SVS vs the JL. The JL ended up being +/- 10db or so where as the SVS were more like +/- 3db. For output, the F212 was made to look silly. In my room, it was making mechanical noise at 84db @ 18hz. The SVS did 92db at the same frequency without issue and I stopped turning it up because it had already outperformed the JL by a large margin. I could push the JL to mechanical noise up until about 25hz and never did the same with the SVS. Either way, the trend continued and the SVS had more output all the way up until around 60hz or so where they were close. The SVS did nose dive hard after 100hz in my room where as the JL played out flatter for longer, but I don't crossover high enough to care about that difference. The decay/waterfall timing between the two were very similar with the SVS actually outperforming the JL at some points, but for the most part the difference between the two was minimal in that regard.
Listening:
Again, the SVS just make the JL look silly. The SVS are better, period. For music listening, notes are more well defined and differentiated between one another. I attribute this to the significantly better frequency response. The instruments are more properly placed in the air, likely because the room is more equally loaded with 2 subs vs one fighting the odd layout of my room. There is no noticeable ringing going on nor any noises that one could associate with the ported design. Punchiness was very similar between the two in music. For movies, the SVS's better response and greater dynamics just blow away the JL. Everything seemed to punch harder, deeper, more articulately, with more impact, and without calling attention to itself. I never thought that the JL was compressing content, but it definitely was in the sub 30hz range.

I didn't think it would end this way, but the SVS are without a doubt a better product. They might fall slightly behind in aesthetics and obviously require a lot more space, but they're far superior in performance and I think this more than makes up for the short comings. I paid about $1000 more for my single JL than I did my pair of SVS subs and honestly, that value was nowhere to be found. I received good customer service from SVS, the subs were shipped quickly and were well packed, and I have no reason to believe that they'll provide anything but the best customer service going forward. Customer service is the reason that I started investigating other companies in the first place, so I hope that this holds true.
The SVS is the better buy. For those in the future reading this, take the leap. They're a good product and a good company to work with. SVS, if you're reading this, I want a free t-shirt or something. lol
 
J

JonnyFive23517

Audioholic
Thanks for that detailed comparison, was definitely informative to read someone's in-home comparison between dual PB13s and a single F212!
 
P

Pio

Audiophyte
I have a pair of SVS PB13's in my system and I couldn't be happier. My system has never EVER sounded so great! Whomever is considering SVS for music only, I can't give SVS a higher recommendation. I think I have it dialed in @ 99%, tuned to 20hz, I'm using an outboard crossover with 24 bd per octave slopes and have settled on 80hz - sounds pretty amazing to me. When a song has the bottom end on it, the system rocks the house (literally). They are enormous though, but I doubt you can get this much output unless you have big boxes. Here's a pic of the subs with Parasound JC1's on them so you get a sense of how big these guys are.



 
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