Please help! Thinking of replacing my receiver!

[real57vetteguy]

Hi all.
My family living room (20 x 24) is also where I have my A/V equipment. Right now I have the following:
Onkyo TX-NR906
500 GB Playstation 3
Sony 300 Disc Changer
Focal Chorus 826V towers
Focal Chorus CC 800 V Center
Paradigm SA-30 V.3's for the sides and rears
55" Samsung LED TV.

I have never been overly impressed with the Onkyo TX-NR906. I use this setup for probably 60% movies and watching television and 40% music. Music sounds good but not dynamic, movies are good but not really like being in a theatre. I feel like the setup should be more dynamic and louder. I do listen to it at high volume levels from time to time.
Last week the HDMI inputs stopped working, I have googled the issue and I could actually have it fixed locally. I am considering buying a new receiver, or seperates. I really don't want to spend over 2000.00. What do you guys suggest?

 

[ahblaza]

So you're saying you didn't care for the sound of the 906 prior to the HDMI board failure (I'm assuming that is the problem). No output from any HDMI? If you don't mind what is cost to repair?

 

[real57vetteguy]

I never really cared for the sound of the NR906 from day one, it seemed very dull, lifeless, no matter how much time I spent i never could get any dynamic sound of it. This is the third Onkyo receiver I have paid over 1500.00 for that lasted 3 years or less. I am done with Onkyo. I should be able to get the capacitors replaced for less than 100.00
I am wanting to replace it with something to really drive the Focal towers, something with good detail and separation. I don't know whether I should go with another receiver or separates?

 

[ahblaza]

Are you looking for stereo amps or M/C? The Outlaw combos are on sale now, pre-pro and multi amps.
Outlaw AudioModel 975
This is what I would consider, I'm a minimalist and don't care for RC or other gadgets, no offense to anyone with this statement. Also if you go the receiver route, the Denon AVR 4000 is very tempting as well.
Amazon.com: Denon AVR-X4000 In-command 7.2-Channel 4K Ultra HD Networking Home Theater Receiver with AirPlay (Black): Electronics
Hope this helps.

 

[real57vetteguy]

I wonder if the 975/7125 combo would drive the Focal 826V's

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go separates, $1588 Emotiva UMC200 $600, XPA3 $629, UPA500 $359 I have the umc200 with an xpa5 and it is a lot of power, and should have NO trouble giving you the dynamic headroom you are looking for....

or this doesnt look like a bad deal $1800 PT-7030 Home Theater Preamp/Processor | Sherbourn Technologies I heard these recently for 10 minutes of Tron playing powering a 7 ch emotiva setup with dual subs, sounded just fine, but honestly for the money I would go with the above setup for 200 and change less, or better yet the umc 200 with an xpa5, and a upa2 for around $1800.... but any of them 3 options would be really nice, I LOVE my 200 and all my emo amps have been tanks...

If you don't like the emo stuff and don't want to go separates depending on your budget check out the Denon AVR-4520ci for around $1600, the marantz SR7007 {I believe that is 7 discrete 130w channels} for around $1300, Yamaha RX a1030 for around $1000, and then the Denon 3313ci for around $650, and the Pioneer 1222k for around $500.. I haven't been keeping up as good as I used to but that should be a good start, but honestly I would go separates if that Onkyo wasn't doing it for you {because that itself is a decent unit}...

Maybe start off getting that fixed and grabbing some amps, use its preouts, maybe it is just the lack of power not making you happy, grab an XPA3 or 5 to start and run the surrounds off the avr and your fronts off the amp.... If that still doesn't do it for you then start searching for a receiver...

Personally I would go umc200, xpa3, and upa500 that should be plenty of power.... if cost is less of an issue, and you listen to loud music and really want to get them focals screaming XPA2 on the front left and right an d an xpa5 power the surrounds and center, that would be a nice 1600 watt 7 channel system, and I bet you can get them 2 amps and a UMC200 for under $2000 shipped if you call emo up and make them a good offer, they will work with you...

 

[ImcLoud]

I wonder if the 975/7125 combo would drive the Focal 826V's

125watts is pretty much what the onkyo was giving you, I think you should be looking for 200w for each of the front 3 and then the surrounds will be fine with anything-80 is more than enough for surrounds... If you listen to a lot of loud music in stereo, then 300w for the outside fronts would be really nice, but I would worry about really smashing them tweeters for long periods of time, I think they max out around 225 so a little self control will keep you from hurting anything..

 

[ahblaza]

The XPA-3 is a good choice for the LCR, I can attest to that, I would go that route for the front three and use your 906's preouts and the it's amps to drive the rest of your setup. I really like the design of the Outlaw processor as a pre-pro. You can look around here for some nice amps as well.
ATI AT1807 Seven Channel x 180 Watt Amplifier - B-Stock (120V) - Amplifiers
Amplifiers
These are really nice amps, under $2000 for the Outlaw and an ATI MC amp

 

[avengineer]

125watts is pretty much what the onkyo was giving you, I think you should be looking for 200w for each of the front 3 and then the surrounds will be fine with anything-80 is more than enough for surrounds... If you listen to a lot of loud music in stereo, then 300w for the outside fronts would be really nice, but I would worry about really smashing them tweeters for long periods of time, I think they max out around 225 so a little self control will keep you from hurting anything..

Going from 125w to 200w is a change of 2dB.
125w to 300w is a change of 3.8dB.
Doubling of perceived volume happens at a change of 10dB.

 

[ImcLoud]

125w vs 200w would be around 30% more volume, not sure if that sounds like a lot, but it is... When I added 100w per ch, to my music only system the difference was night and day, and I listened at the same volume {using a db meter}...

 

[Steve81]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what are you using for a subwoofer?

 

[Steve81]

Doubling of perceived volume happens at a change of 10dB.

That varies by frequency; it can take much less down low to achieve a perceived doubling of volume, say 4-5dB.

 

[panteragstk]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what are you using for a subwoofer?

Noticed that myself. A good sub could be what's holding everything back. I can say from experience that once I got a good sub my eyes were opened.

 

[ImcLoud]

another issue could be where his fronts are crossed, eating up the avr's power to reproduce the low end instead of concentrating all the power to the mids and highs...

 

[panteragstk]

another issue could be where his fronts are crossed, eating up the avr's power to reproduce the low end instead of concentrating all the power to the mids and highs...

I would think it may be some sort of configuration issue. Don't get me wrong, my 809 is nice, but I've used better. It does sound good for the money I paid ($450), but if I'd paid the full $1100 I'd have been upset.

 

[Steve81]

another issue could be where his fronts are crossed, eating up the avr's power to reproduce the low end instead of concentrating all the power to the mids and highs...

Not to mention a higher XO will save the fronts a fair bit of excursion and consequently lower distortion appreciably.

 

[ImcLoud]

It sure does make a big difference, some how my receiver go turned back to flat on all channels with the sub set to off {im sure I did this somehow with the remote} and It sounded terrible, I thought I blew something out, after having that strong subwoofer bass to hear the amp pushing the lows through my fronts sounded like a plastic boombox...

 

[avengineer]

That varies by frequency; it can take much less down low to achieve a perceived doubling of volume, say 4-5dB.

Got a reference for that?

 

[Steve81]

Got a reference for that?

The Decibel (dB) Scale & Audio Rules 101 | Audioholics

The section titled "A Word on Human Perception of Loudness". Granted, it's ostensibly a self-reference, but that tidbit of knowledge was dropped by Ed Mullen, and makes sense when you look at the equal loudness curve.

 

[markw]

I'm not too sure that article supports your statement. Please note the following snippet from that article:

Every doubling of power is another +3dB of loudness. So:
2 w = 89 dB
4 w = 92 dB
8 w = 95 dB
16 w = 98 dB
32 w = 101 dB
64 w = 104 dB
128 w = 107 dB
256 w = 110 dB

So, if we accept that 10 decibles represents an approximate doubling of perceived loudness, the step from 2 watts/89db to 16 watts/98 db is pretty much right on.

Can you point to something refuting that, or at least supporting what you state? Keep in mind that we're talking the entire audio spectrum, not a narrow band of frequencies. I've heard of someone drowning in 6" of water, too.