Crown amplifiers vs. other amps in the audiophile world

[RichB]

Nice. They show both the Ultima2 and the Synthesis models in the background!

They are a Harmon company so they have access to those speakers.
If it were a different company, I would consider it an endorsement.

- Rich

 

[internetmin]

They are a Harmon company so they have access to those speakers.
If it were a different company, I would consider it an endorsement.

- Rich

Exactly, that's kind of my point too. They wouldn't have another speaker there and why not have the top of the line too. It's a shame they don't have them connected. When Revel takes its truck on the road they are powering all the Ultima speakers with Mark Levinson gear.

 

[RichB]

Exactly, that's kind of my point too. They wouldn't have another speaker there and why not have the top of the line too. It's a shame they don't have them connected. When Revel takes its truck on the road they are powering all the Ultima speakers with Mark Levinson gear.

That's what I would do if I were Crown.
Good marketing.

- Rich

 

[Pyrrho]

Those look much nicer than the XLR's and have no fans.
How does the technology differ?

I wish the gain were a bit better.

- Rich

I am not familiar with the XLR, so I suggest you contact Crown for the differences in technology. Unfortunately, the K series are no longer made, so you would probably have to buy used if you were going to get one.

 

[fmw]

The only thing I could find is a review of the Macro Reference which was a pro audio amplifier. I can't remember the name of the one they designed for audiophiles but it looked like an audiophile amplifier and certainly performed like one. It might have been the macro reference in a different cabinet but I seem to remember it was a class A offering. It was on the market for a just a few months. After Stereophile panned it, Crown withdrew it. I actually heard a system that was driven by one. The system belonged to a Crown Engineer. Sorry I can't remember more. But it was that review that got Crown to abandon the consumer market. Sorry I couldn't motivate any crow eating.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The only thing I could find is a review of the Macro Reference which was a pro audio amplifier. I can't remember the name of the one they designed for audiophiles but it looked like an audiophile amplifier and certainly performed like one. It might have been the macro reference in a different cabinet but I seem to remember it was a class A offering. It was on the market for a just a few months. After Stereophile panned it, Crown withdrew it. I actually heard a system that was driven by one. The system belonged to a Crown Engineer. Sorry I can't remember more. But it was that review that got Crown to abandon the consumer market. Sorry I couldn't motivate any crow eating.

You must be thinking of the Macro Reference (reviewed here: Crown Macro Reference power amplifier | Stereophile.com), which is definitely Class AB. The subjective part of the review reads like complete made-up rubbish. There's a haze over the music, with super-low distortion and unweighted noise down 88db at 2.83v? Lipnick must have been taking drugs. The measurements section certainly depicts awesome performance, though the Crown obviously is not natively balanced, so it actually performs better with single-ended inputs. Crown never made a Class A amp.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I am not familiar with the XLR, so I suggest you contact Crown for the differences in technology. Unfortunately, the K series are no longer made, so you would probably have to buy used if you were going to get one.

XLR is a connector, they have XLS and XLI. XLI looks like another entry level option.

XLS is an affordable dj amplifier, but, and 'off label' an all purpose budget option (cinema, installed sound, nightclub)
XTi and CDi is kinda nightclub, some cinema
DSi is a lot of cinema
I-Tech and so forth is more touring.

They are all good. And people use them 'off label' all the time.

As far as fan noise, my XTi's are variable speed. Not sure what the XLSs are now. I know some people using them for electric violin and such were asking for variable speed, so the new stuff might have them.

 

[ratso]

You must be thinking of the Macro Reference (reviewed here: Crown Macro Reference power amplifier | Stereophile.com), which is definitely Class AB. The subjective part of the review reads like complete made-up rubbish. There's a haze over the music, with super-low distortion and unweighted noise down 88db at 2.83v? Lipnick must have been taking drugs. The measurements section certainly depicts awesome performance, though the Crown obviously is not natively balanced, so it actually performs better with single-ended inputs. Crown never made a Class A amp.

dammit irv i was just about to post the same thing. you beat me to it. funny how they hated the amp, but the measurements show it was a solid performer. no bias there, right.

 

[fmw]

OK, Irv. I'll eat the crow since I can't find anything that supports my memory. The one pictured in the on-line review is a regular Macro Reference and doesn't look anything like the amp that was reviewed. Incidentally, the one I heard in Elkhart performed wonderfully. For some reason the audiophile community has stigmatized pro audio equipment. Having done some performing and using of pro audio equipment for a few decades, I can tell you the stuff is ugly, rugged and performs wonderfully. I still have a Yamaha SC3500 that's too powerful for home audio use but would do an admirable job in a home audio system if it had a "governor."

 

[Pyrrho]

I am currently using a Crown K2 power amp with Apogee Stage speakers. You can read about each of them:

http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/legacy/136713.pdf

http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/legacy/102010.pdf


Stage

(You may want to read the reviews; they are great speakers.)

The speakers are widely regarded as some of the most "revealing" that one can get. The Crown amp is fine. The K2 also accepts banana connectors, but it does not have any RCA type inputs; I use adapters, which are very cheap to buy.

I very much like my Crown K2, as it has no fans, so there is no fan noise at all, and it is a sealed case, so dirt cannot get inside. I also have never run out of power with it; I should be able to totally trash any speaker I own with undistorted power from it. I am very glad I bought it. (I am even more glad that I bought the Apogee Stage speakers, but you are asking about Crown amplifiers.)

Those look much nicer than the XLR's and have no fans.
How does the technology differ?

I wish the gain were a bit better.

- Rich

I am not familiar with the XLR, so I suggest you contact Crown for the differences in technology. Unfortunately, the K series are no longer made, so you would probably have to buy used if you were going to get one.

XLR is a connector, they have XLS and XLI. XLI looks like another entry level option.

XLS is an affordable dj amplifier, but, and 'off label' an all purpose budget option (cinema, installed sound, nightclub)
XTi and CDi is kinda nightclub, some cinema
DSi is a lot of cinema
I-Tech and so forth is more touring.

They are all good. And people use them 'off label' all the time.

As far as fan noise, my XTi's are variable speed. Not sure what the XLSs are now. I know some people using them for electric violin and such were asking for variable speed, so the new stuff might have them.

No wonder I had not heard of the "XLR" line of amplifiers from Crown mentioned by RichB.

 

[RichB]

I guess I got that wrong

This packaging of this crown amp looks good enough for HT:

Commercial Audio Series
- Rich

 

[fireballmivecbenzmerc]

Hi Pyrrho, I am using a class D 370watts per channel power amplifier double all the way to 2 ohms after I sold my Krell and BAT tube pre. Using the amplifier to drive my apogee duetta signature. I have tried many power amplifiers(tubes or solid states) without much success. But the class D has no problem driving the apogee. In fact the Cambridge audio X series 200watts per channel goes into protection when I switch on the amplifier. I am wondering if the XLS

5000 power amplifier can drive the apogee? Less the US2k for a new one. Thanks

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi Pyrrho, ...

Haven't seen him here since about that time.

 

[mikeintexas]

A long time ago in a galaxy far away (1970) my home system was a PAT4 preamp and a Crown D30 driving two 15" acoustic suspension speakers.
If I remember correctly that amp was primarily used as a servo driver in shaker tables for aerospace.
It had a DC to some ungodly frequency top end response and deferential inputs and outputs. had to put a DC blocking cap inline with the input because some low frequency component was exercising the speakers at a visible rate of a couple hertz.
I know it is not really significant to this thread, just a little nostalgia.
thanks

 

[Boomzilla]

I have owned (not listened to in a store or at a friend's) the following Crown amps:

Crown PS-400
Crown XLS-1000
Crown XLS-1500
Crown XLS-2000

I've used them to drive a wide variety of mid-range speakers ($1K to $3K). I've used them with both solid state and tube preamps.

My comments are as follows:

The Crown PS-400 (the only "conventional power supply" amp in the bunch) was not as transparent as other amps including the Emotiva XPA-2, the Yamaha P2100, or the Emotiva XPR-2.

All the XLS line exhibited two flaws:

A treble that sounded "homogenized" and less than accurately dynamic
A midrange that sounded slightly recessed

I've not heard the "second generation" amps, but I plan to try an XLS-2502. I'm relatively sure that it will be an improvement.

Boomzilla

 

[lovinthehd]

One other answer I'm hoping I can get, because I'm not familiar with the pro arena. It looks like most of the Crown-made amps have a "pro" balanced-style connector for speakers. Are there any models or line that have standard binding posts for a home setup?

I just ran across this thread today. I cracked up when I saw this wanna be "audiophile" talking about a balanced speaker connector. FWIW three years later, but the XLS Drivecore amps have a standard speaker post for bare wire or banana plugs or you can use a speakon connector (what he probably was trying to refer to as a pro style "balanced" connector).

 

[Boomzilla]

The Speakon connectors are seriously great - Unlike banana plugs, they don't pull loose if someone trips on a speaker cord. They have LOTS of contact with the wire & provide a locking connection. Bananas can easily break their "leaves" (particularly the locking bananas), and are somewhat fragile. There's also the issue of gold plating (that some argue is audible). There's also the issue of a sometimes-questionable solder joint from the wire to the banana plug (I've measured commercial and "boutique" cables where the solder joint provided up to 3x the resistance of bare wire).

The Speakon does away with all of that. A brass sleeve clamps the wire directly. The sleeve can work with virtually any gauge wire, from 16 ga. up to about 8 ga. If you were to use it for several decades, there might be a slight galvanic corrosion issue, but far less than with conventional bananas. The "audiophile" world hasn't yet discovered Speakon, but they should.

 

[KenM10759]

I would MUCH prefer to have my $7.50 per pair Blue Jeans Cable locking banana plug disintegrate when/if someone yanked at it rather than have my ultra secure Speakon connector follow my very expensive speaker to the ground.

 

[RichB]

I would MUCH prefer to have my $7.50 per pair Blue Jeans Cable locking banana plug disintegrate when/if someone yanked at it rather than have my ultra secure Speakon connector follow my very expensive speaker to the ground.

Agreed. I would rather the cable pull out of the banana connector than damage and amp or speaker.
These locking banana plugs are great:

http://www.parts-express.com/angled-locking-and-stacking-banana-plug-with-dual-set-screws-poly-carbonate-shell-and-insu--091-3608

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

I've not had the instance where my bananas pull out of amp or speaker let alone my subs with speakons being pulled and taking gear with it. I leave sufficient wire in place to move gear and place it where it won't be tripped on....

I am building some speakers and they'll get speakons. Great connectors, much better than bananas. YMMV.