Pure Direct vs Stereo

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The lack of bass management in pure direct makes it useless for me

Agree. I used to never use Pure Direct or Direct because I didn't know how to get Subwoofer output in PD/D modes in my processors.

I've always heard it was possible for PD+LFE, but I was never able to get it to work for me. I don't know if it were a firmware issue in the past, which is a possibility.

I'm just tickled I can now get kick-a$$ subwoofer bass using Pure Direct mode.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'm trying to download the manual for the SR6006. Just based on the price, I assume it's comparable to the Denon 3312/3313?

Menu--> Manual Setup --> Audio Setup --> 2Ch/Direct: Custom, Small/Large/ XO, LFE+Main, Distance...

Okay, well, I looked at the SR6006 manual. It does say that Pure Direct allows for subwoofer output if you set Sub to LFE+Main. But I cannot locate anywhere on the manual regarding the Audio 2Ch/Direct setup.

If you have set Speakers to SMALLl + 80Hz XO + LFE+MAIN, and cannot find the Audio 2Ch/Direct/Custom setup, I don't know what else you can do.

I can send you the manual if you like, just throw me your email addy. As far as I can tell there is no Audio2ch/Direct/Custom menu. That must be where this model differs from yours. I think that in theory, the most "pure" pure direct should remove all processing, including the amps internal crossover to the subwoofer. It seems that your amp overcomes the shortcoming, whereby people who want direct sound without an outboard crossover can still enable one feature of the amps processing...the internal crossover. For people like me with monitors+subwoofer and on this processor or similar, direct and pure direct become useless without the internal crossover enabled.

 

[3db]

Then use straight mode and turn off bass management and RC

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Less is just Less

Imagine we're all sitting in a room drinking beer. We're all debating about which is better. PD w/ bass vs PD w/o Bass. We're all taking fun jabs at one another.

Some say PD/D should not have bass management - that sometimes "more" is less and sometimes "less" is more.

Well, I say sometimes less is just LESS.

This reminds of the ATI's current position on pre-pros w/ HDMI, 4K, 3D, TrueHd, DTS-HD, AirPlay, etc.

I do love ATI. If I could find an excuse to buy another ATI amp, I probably would.

God bless ATI's old pre-pros, but to even justify their lack of all these features, especially HDMI, is just sad. Here, ATI also claims that more newer digital technology somehow degrades sound quality and that sometimes "less" is actually more.

But I say, sometimes less is just plain LESS.

 

[3db]

But I say, sometimes less is just plain LESS.

Your pure direct is like Yamaha's Straight mode with room correction turned off and bass management still on. There is NO "less" as far as I can see. Whether that's important is listener dependent. Since I love the sound of my PSB towers in full range and you prefer your Pure Direct with bass management, I see a win win for everyone.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Then use straight mode and turn off bass management and RC

Seriously I think that's great. I've used Stereo 2.1 mode for years and I think it's great.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Straight/ Stereo 2.1. Not at all.

It could all be in my head. But I'm enjoying it nonetheless.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is NO "less" as far as I can see. Whether that's important is listener dependent. Since I love the sound of my PSB towers in full range and you prefer your Pure Direct with bass management, I see a win win for everyone.

I agree it's a win-win. At the end of the day, it all comes down to preference.

 

[3db]

Seriously I think that's great. I've used Stereo 2.1 mode for years and I think it's great.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Straight/ Stereo 2.1. Not at all.

It could all be in my head. But I'm enjoying it nonetheless.

No worries man. Its all good. However, stereo mode on Yammy is yet another different beast... there is no DSP bypass in stereo mode ... its confusing to try map the terms across different manufacturers.

 

[Grador]

Your pure direct is like Yamaha's Straight mode with room correction turned off and bass management still on. There is NO "less" as far as I can see. Whether that's important is listener dependent. Since I love the sound of my PSB towers in full range and you prefer your Pure Direct with bass management, I see a win win for everyone.

I don't think this is necessarily true. His pure direct, like ours, supposedly bypasses the EQ circuitry completely which is completely different than having set to flat.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Then use straight mode and turn off bass management and RC

If Yamaha straight = Denon/Marantz pure, then there is no bass at all with my receiver. A 2 channel track is outputted to the L/R speakers, in my case sealed monitors that have an F3 in the 60s. There is no subwoofer without enabling the amps internal crossover. For my Marantz SR6006, the internal crossover is disabled in both pure and pure direct mode.

I'm not complaining about Audyssey, I think it does a great job in my application.

 

[3db]

I don't think this is necessarily true. His pure direct, like ours, supposedly bypasses the EQ circuitry completely which is completely different than having set to flat.

Our pure direct disables bass management as well as RC. His Pure Direct is able to engage bass management which Yammy's straight mode can do but Yammy's Pure Drect mode CANNOT do. They are NOT the same at all.

 

[Grador]

Our pure direct disables bass management as well as RC. His Pure Direct is able to engage bass management which Yammy's straight mode can do but Yammy's Pure Drect mode CANNOT do. They are NOT the same at all.

I wasn't at all saying they were the same...

I was saying that I disagreed with your assessment that his pure direct was similar to our strait.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think this is necessarily true. His pure direct, like ours, supposedly bypasses the EQ circuitry completely which is completely different than having set to flat.

Good point.

In Pure Direct & Direct, we cannot even engage Audyssey, EQ, or DSP. It completely bypasses this circuit.

If "Straight" allows Room Correction and we have to Turn it OFF, then "Straight" is definitely NOT the same as Denon's Pure Direct.

Pure Direct means we cannot even turn on Room Correction if we wanted to.

So "Straight" is NOT the same as "Direct".

"Straight" is equal to "Stereo Mode" in which we can turn Room Correction on and off.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Our pure direct disables bass management as well as RC. His Pure Direct is able to engage bass management which Yammy's straight mode can do but Yammy's Pure Drect mode CANNOT do. They are NOT the same at all.

Yammy Straight allows Room correction, EQ, DSP.

Denon Direct does NOT allow RC, EQ, DSP.

So how can Straight be the same as Denon's Direct?

Sending bass to the sub is not using Tone Circuit, RC, EQ, DSP in the Denon. It bypasses all Tones.

The difference between Denon Pure Direct vs Yamaha/ Onkyo is that Denon allows Bass output and Yamaha does not.

 

[Grador]

To clarify "strait" on a yamaha is simply what they call no DSP effects [not counting RC as an "effect"].

 

[3db]

Yammy Straight allows Room correction, EQ, DSP.

Denon Direct does NOT allow RC, EQ, DSP.

So how can Straight be the same as Denon's Direct?

Sending bass to the sub is not using Tone Circuit, RC, EQ, DSP in the Denon. It bypasses all Tones.

The difference between Denon Pure Direct vs Yamaha/ Onkyo is that Denon allows Bass output and Yamaha does not.

Hey Dude, Just working on the mapping of terms between units because somewhere these two units should work fairly similar.. these questions are to help me understand your Denon. Please don't interpret as an attack on what you are saying. Its not intended.

A) Which mode on your Denon turns all DSP (DSP includes bass management) and RC off? Is it Direct or Pure Direct?
B) Which mode on your Denon allows you to do bass management? Can you adjust the crossover of the bass while in that mode?
C) Is the cross over digital or analog?

 

[KEW]

From BatPIG over at AVS who's pretty much is a Denon 4311 guru.

When in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode:
- "Small" vs. "Large" is ignored (the front speakers are always treated as "large")
<st1</st1

Based on the above, and assuming your Denon behaves as the referenced one, I have to wonder if the differences you hear are simply a matter of differences in the bass management.

In your original post, you say speakers are set to small in Stereo 2.2 mode.
Based on BatPig's statement, when you switch to D/PD, the speakers are being switched to large (whether you intended it or not).

The obvious thing to do is switch your speakers to large in Stereo 2.2 mode and see if you can still detect an audible difference.

Either way, the cool thing is that you have found better sound!

PS: I always knew your sound wasn't as perfect as you let on!
(Does it sound too much like petty envy to say that?)

 

[cpp]

Originally Posted by cpp

From BatPIG over at AVS who's pretty much is a Denon 4311 guru.

When in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode:

- "Small" vs. "Large" is ignored (the front speakers are always treated as "large")

Based on the above, and assuming your Denon behaves as the referenced one, I have to wonder if the differences you hear are simply a matter of differences in the bass management.

In your original post, you say speakers are set to small in Stereo 2.2 mode.
Based on BatPig's statement, when you switch to D/PD, the speakers are being switched to large (whether you intended it or not).

The obvious thing to do is switch your speakers to large in Stereo 2.2 mode and see if you can still detect an audible difference.

Either way, the cool thing is that you have found better sound!

PS: I always knew your sound wasn't as perfect as you let on!
(Does it sound too much like petty envy to say that?)

Well first, it was not "I" / me that noted hearing anything, all I provided was a quote from "From BatPIG over at AVS who's pretty much is a Denon 4311 guru."

PS: I always knew your sound wasn't as perfect as you let on

and I don't have a clue what your talking about or insinuating as I did not even make a comment on this thread about hearing a difference between Direct / Pure

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well first, it was not "I" / me that noted hearing anything, all I provided was a quote from "From BatPIG over at AVS who's pretty much is a Denon 4311 guru."

and I don't have a clue what your talking about or insinuating as I did not even make a comment on this thread about hearing a difference between Direct / Pure

I'm sure KEW was talking about me.

 

[cpp]

I'm sure KEW was talking about me.

Say it ain't so , not you