Do all amplifiers sound the same thread

Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
if one is listening at lower avg SPL, say below 80dB in a THX standard medium size room...if those Pioneer are harder to drive, okay how about double my numbers...one would need a couple of watts average with occasional needs of 20W or slightly more, most Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, Marantz AVRs within the price group of $1500 to $2500 could sound like the more powerful Emo XPA-5 in theory and should, in practice as well.
I wouldn't doubt it.

At the same time, it's still problematic to declare that "all amplifiers sound the same" based on restricted testing, ie into an easy load at low SPL levels. I'll agree: there's no magic sauce that Krell or Mark Levinson have that the likes of Emotiva will never know because they're not "high end". But when my SPL meter its touching the other side of 100dB, I'd feel a little better having something a little beefier than a bottom of the barrel receiver from Sony, even if it might sound indistinguishable from my Onkyo at 90dB or 80dB.

Bottom line, I tend to agree with 3 dB on this.
I understand what he's getting at. I'm just pedantic. :eek:
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I am in and out of this thread. I have owned a few power amps over the past 40+ years ( I would say a about 100+) and none of the them sounded the same. Not one. Everyone had it's own sound.
All I know is I dug out my old mono Quicksilver 40w tubes and using the same hard to drive Usher speakers vs my ATI 2002, there is a difference in sound, same pre-amp same cables. Do I care, not really. I like the sound of both. The tubes had a little more warmth and seemed more natural which could be a result of my tube pre-amp. The ATI appeared to produce a little more treble. Music used Fourplay 'Heartfelt' and Dire Straits 'Brother in arms'. Source Sony xA5400ES
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I love my ATI amps. If I were a billionaire, I would have all Mark Levinson amps. I think they measure the best. They probably sound the best. :cool:
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I am in and out of this thread. I have owned a few power amps over the past 40+ years ( I would say a about 100+) and none of the them sounded the same. Not one. Everyone had it's own sound.
You would certainly be someone I would want in on a listening session of some competent amps.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I love my ATI amps. If I were a billionaire, I would have all Mark Levinson amps. I think they measure the best. They probably sound the best. :cool:
Not anymore. If you want the best there is, it's probably Krell.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
At the same time, it's still problematic to declare that "all amplifiers sound the same" based on restricted testing, ie into an easy load at low SPL levels.
I fully agree with you on this. I did my quick experiment in elevated average SPL of 85 dB, much louder than what I typically prefer, just to make it a little less "restrictive".

3 dB name this thread in question form for a reason I guess, and my answer would be, no, not all amps sound the same. A $150 Sony or something won't sound the same as a $2000 Emo. I think we need to qualify what "all amps" mean, does it man all amps period, or all amps of proven design for ruler flat frequency response 20 to 20,000 Hz at 0.1W output to rated output at less than 0.08% THD+noise, less than 0.1 IMD, so on and so forth.


I'll agree: there's no magic sauce that Krell or Mark Levinson have that the likes of Emotiva will never know because they're not "high end". But when my SPL meter its touching the other side of 100dB, I'd feel a little better having something a little beefier than a bottom of the barrel receiver from Sony, even if it might sound indistinguishable from my Onkyo at 90dB or 80dB.
Again, you are not alone, me too.



I understand what he's getting at. I'm just pedantic. :eek:
I guessed right..:D
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I am in and out of this thread. I have owned a few power amps over the past 40+ years ( I would say a about 100+) and none of the them sounded the same. Not one. Everyone had it's own sound.
Hell Walter, as hard as you drive amps, this statement is tantamount to saying
"Every amp, when begging for mercy, has its own, unique shriek of agony."






:D:D:D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
People aren't limiting their conditions in the real world, so your test has limited utility.
Since when are many many real world speakers a limit? What is it with this all or nothing mentality? Don't try and paint everything into a corner because you may have an underlying disagreement. My tests are far from limited. Its callled matching speakers to a receiver's design capabilities.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I picked Diana Krall because her kind of jazz CDs don't have much DR, about 12 dB I guess, so it is very easy to see the average SPL even without measurement instruments. The use of a digital Hioki meter was just to confirm my not so reliable visual judgment.

When I measure peaks I prefer to use classical music. In the past I have seen peaks >20W even with my more sensitive KEF and Focal speakers playing classical music disc that I know has high DRs.

My quick measurement session was done to demo one can listen to average SPL of 85 dB with peaks >90dB when the amp is outputting 1W or less and less than 0.5A with peaks no greater than 10W. That's RMS current, so for peaks it could be much higher depending on the waveform but would still be under 1A in any case. Still, it just shows that while I believe in more power the better, it isn't true to think most people are actually hearing day and night kind of difference as soon as they swap out their mid range AVR such as a Yamaha RXV-2010's internal amp with a 200WPC power amp. Hence my feeling that people often exaggerate the effect of adding an external amp on sound quality, and I guess that could be understandable, given what they have been told prior, anticipating and having spent the money.
I agree.. Its called sight bias, a very powerful determinator on what something sounds like. :)
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Since when are many many real world speakers a limit?
A. You're not just limiting speakers, you're limiting output levels as well.

B. I don't know about you, but I don't pick speakers based on their impedance curve. I pick speakers based on their sound, and then pick an amplifier suitable for driving that load. Telling me that receiver X sounds as good as a Krell into an easy 8 ohm load at moderate volumes means nothing if the speaker I like isn't an easy 8 ohm load and I like to listen loud.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
3dB name this thread in question form for a reason I guess, and my answer would be, no, not all amps sound the same. A $150 Sony or something won't sound the same as a $2000 Emo. I think we need to qualify what "all amps" mean, does it man all amps period, or all amps of proven design for ruler flat frequency response 20 to 20,000 Hz at 0.1W output to rated output at less than 0.08% THD+noise, less than 0.1 IMD, so on and so forth.
PENG, I meant exactly that.. Competently designed amps, receivers, not bottom of the line all in one special. Thanks for the vote.

I didn't think that I would have to qualify competently designed in an Audio forum but there are those here who like to argue just for the sake of arguing... real value added :rolleyes:
 

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