Do all amplifiers sound the same thread

[Irvrobinson]

More accurate. More true-to-source. "Better" is subjective. Some people *like* the distortion/coloration that tube amps provide.

Agreed. I'm not arguing with that. I was just saying that better clipping performance hasn't necessarily been the case for years.

 

[templemaners]

They can listen to conversations from hundreds of years away.

I have to get me one of those time mics.

 

[avnetguy]

I have to get me one of those time mics.

Might want to try this site (areciboradio.com) they stream the audio.

Steve

 

[mtrycrafts]

I like point made about how amps depend on the load of the speaker as well as the size of the room it is playing in. I agree that it would almost be impossible to hear a difference between a high end amp and a mid or even low end amp and low listening levels.

In the end, it all goes back to the design specs of that amp. Can it handle low impedance loads? Can it drive a speaker enough to accommodate a large room's volume needs? If not, that is not an amp's fault as it was not designed for the task in hand.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have to get me one of those time mics.

There was some BS going around several years ago about sounds being recorded in ancient pottery. Maybe that's what he's talking about.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.. Any MD who did such an unethical trial despite those safeguards in the cancer field, would loose his accreditation and probably could never work as an oncologist again. Such things have happened.
...

Or, move the trials to an undeveloped country off the beaten path.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...They can listen to conversations from hundreds of years away.

...

If that is into the future, I want one from the stock exchanges.
A historian would be interested into the past.

 

[mtrycrafts]

More accurate. More true-to-source. "Better" is subjective. Some people *like* the distortion/coloration that tube amps provide.

It's not only distortion but mostly the amp frequency response that follows that of the speakers and amplifies it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Might want to try this site (areciboradio.com) they stream the audio.

Steve

That will not get me rich I want one from the near future stock reports or I could invest for my offsprings

 

[JerryLove]

I have to get me one of those time mics.

I meant yards.

I was referring to technologies like parabolic mics and for that matter laser mics used to detect specific sounds at great distance.

 

[Hobbit]

This thread got me thinking... tooo hard! IMO, it seamed to me I could tell the difference between my B&K AV5000 and my Acurus 3x200. This is totally non-scientific, and differences were subtle for sure. I'm not saying one was better, just different. At least driving my speakers.

Having said that, amp design is pretty well understood and not much differences between them. I was talking to another engineer that I work with about my AV5000. The center channel has a hum after the remote control in turns off the amp (works fine when it's on). We started talking about it and decided what was most likely wrong. Then I found the schematics on line and it was pretty much identical to what we expected to see. The remote off circuit worked exactly how we envisioned, and the transistor that we thought was leaky probably is...

Now the one that confuses me are people who tell me they can hear the difference between digital cables.

 

[Duff man]

I like point made about how amps depend on the load of the speaker as well as the size of the room it is playing in. I agree that it would almost be impossible to hear a difference between a high end amp and a mid or even low end amp and low listening levels.

Most people with a limited budget would be better off buying a low/mid end receiver and putting as much towards speakers as they can afford...unlike my friend who spent $1000 on a receiver and $400 for bookshelf speakers when a $400 receiver and $1000 speakers would have been the wiser choice.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I meant yards.

I was referring to technologies like parabolic mics and for that matter laser mics used to detect specific sounds at great distance.

Well, thanks for the short lived fun we had at your expense.

 

[PENG]

Okay I just spent an hour measuring V,I, and recording W (from the VU meters) and can confirm that listening at 10' from the R900 in my 12X16X9 open to an area at least 3X larger, I was getting 75 dB average (approx.) and both calculated and indicated power was approx 1W or less. Cranked up the volume to get about 85 dB average, power seemed to go up 4X, still less than 1W.

So IMHO in my two channel listening environment, the 3805 AVR provides more than the power I need whether it is driving my 86 dB/W/M Energy or the 90 dB/W/M KEF, likely over 99% of the time. That is, all well designed 130 WPC class A/AB amps would likely sound the same to me in that room. I always felt that way, taking measurements simply confirm some of the reasons.

I don't want to go off topic as this thread is not about measurements but I may post them if I start a thread on measurements. For now, PM me if you are interested in the my ad hoc/improvised measurement results using just a Hoiki meter, RS SPL meter and the amp's on board wattmeters. The Hoiki is accurate to +/- 1% for 40 to 1000 Hz. The music used was Diana Krall's album, When I look in you eyes, track 5.

 

[3db]

Yes, certainly would make level matching simple but switching alone is not enough as detecting differences involves achieving statistically significant data. Guessing a few coin flips correctly does not make one able to predict outcomes in a significant manner, if you know what I mean.

Do you have any suggestions as to conduct the test? Its great to come up with the one lines stating why or why not but throw some meat on the table fer a change.

 

[3db]

In the end, it all goes back to the design specs of that amp. Can it handle low impedance loads? Can it drive a speaker enough to accommodate a large room's volume needs? If not, that is not an amp's fault as it was not designed for the task in hand.

Bingo... And if an amp is pushed beyond its designed point, it may color the sound. However, if the load presented is well within amplifiers' design spec, their should be no skewing of the amplifieed signal of nay kind thus eliminating any differences in sound.

 

[Gordonj]

Bingo... And if an amp is pushed beyond its designed point, it may color the sound. However, if the load presented is well within amplifiers' design spec, their should be no skewing of the amplifieed signal of nay kind thus eliminating any differences in sound.

I agree, that an amp driven at low volumes and well within their design intent limit, one would be hard pressed to hear a difference. Hence much of the problem associated with home HiFi. In our homes we seldom drive a 250w amp to the point where you will hear its flaws.

I still contend that a $300 receiver will not sound as "good" as a dedicated $3k amp. The components alone will leave a different signature. Further, in the world that I have grown up in and work everyday (commercial performance audio) when driving concert levels with many speakers that are pushing hard you can hear a difference between manufactures and even series/models within a manufactures line. Each amp manufacture treat the sound differently. I know that is not what we are talking about here but because of that heard experience, I tend to the side that all amps will effect the sound differently to some degree - again when pushed.

 

[cpp]

I think it really depends on matching the amp and pre-amp or a receiver to the speakers being used. Can't have sound without speakers of sorts.

 

[Gordonj]

Do you have any suggestions as to conduct the test? Its great to come up with the one lines stating why or why not but throw some meat on the table fer a change.

It would have to be all equipment the same except for the amp. So the amp switcher that Gene referenced would be ideal. So preamp, source gear, and you would have to have a way to match up the inputs and outputs the same since we are listening to sound quality for this so-called test....

 

[jinjuku]

It would have to be all equipment the same except for the amp. So the amp switcher that Gene referenced would be ideal. So preamp, source gear, and you would have to have a way to match up the inputs and outputs the same since we are listening to sound quality for this so-called test....

I don't think you need a switcher to hear what I see SO many people decry as a 'Night and Day' difference. Just by their prose it should be instantly and easily distinguishable.

I have a feeling if you were to toss their amp in a black box so they couldn't see it and swap it out sometime in the near future with a like comparable, competent, correctly designed amp for their speakers. Well they wouldn't be able to tell you when the switches where made.

Remember the efficacy of the protocol / procedure needs only to be as focused as the claims.