Hostility

Hostility

Full Audioholic
Yes but in the same paragraph is says they test every unit before they send it out. So you think they would have caught this? I think if it comes defective from factory there should be no if ands or buts, should be direct reacent, now if the amp was used for a duration of time then something happened, then yes follow regular warranty procedures.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Emo is following their FAQ, on international orders, to the letter.
How so? Other than making the OP pay for the shipping, they aren't unless I misunderstood. "A direct replacement wasn't available." They have a satisfaction guaranteed policy, or I would have never ordered. Why not for a Canadian order? I see no mention of exceptions. If Emotiva had sent me a defective unit it would be going back, end of story. Also, I can understand where for normal warranty repairs they won't cover shipping for international orders, but this amp was defective when the box was opened. If it were me and they wouldn't pay shipping that would be the end of the business relationship. It rubs me the wrong way that they didn't jump at making this right. Again, I can't imagine what they're thinking. They seem like a pretty smart company, yet in this case they couldn't appear more dumb and insensitive.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
My luck with their customer service wasn't awesome, either. I tend to keep quiet about it, but I'll never recommend them. Very responsive when trying to sell me something, then their attitude seemed to change to "ignore him and hopefully he'll go away" after I bought something and had a problem, including having an amp die within two hours of hooking it up and having it send a power surge through my speakers. It's my own fault for buying another one. :eek: Seriously, I knew better, but I fell for the hype. That's the reason that I left the forum for six month at the beginning of 2008, actually.
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
Emotiva Amps and International Warranty Service

Hi, sorry to take so long to get back to you there.

First, just to clarify one thing about the turn-on sequence for our amps...
The individual amp modules do NOT turn on in sequence, nor are they subjected to a power-up test one at a time. As the power supply comes up to full voltage, all of the modules "wake up" together; the protection processor does a turn-on sequence and self test (which is when you see the LEDs light in order), and then proceeds to monitor s all the channels continuously. Because our amp modules are directly coupled to the speakers, in normal operation they DO often make a slight "whoosh" or thump as they power up. This is normal, but varies from amp to amp and module to module. It is also quite harmless. If there were a problem, the protection circuitry would immediately go into protect mode and shut down the amp. Assuming that your amp didn't go into protect mode on power-up, then the protection circuitry was "satisfied" that nothing dangerous was going on. (If the module was putting out anything that was wrong - or dangerous - the amp would have gone into protection immediately.)

It was almost certainly just a coincidence that the noise you heard (whether a normal start-up noise or excess noise being produced by a faulty module) occurred at the same point in TIME that the fourth channel's corresponding LED happened to flash in its start-up sequence test.

I am not specifically involved in your support request, so I don't know the actual details there. I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the amplifier put out anything that could actually damage a midrange driver. (Even if the amplifier module was faulty, and the protection circuitry somehow failed to react to the fault, the crossover in the speaker would prevent the resulting DC from reaching the midrange.) A start-up thump, no matter how severe, is just not the sort of fault that will generally damage a midrange.

As for our warranty.... We are always willing to have an amp shipped back to us for service (or a return under our 30 day return policy). If you return the amp under the thirty day return policy, you will have to pay the return shipping (this is true for both domestic and international customers). The only difference is that international customers who want a warranty REPAIR are responsible to pay shipping BOTH WAYS. Because this can end up being very expensive (especially with heavy amps in Europe or Asia), we offer the OPTION of having us send you a part which you can then install yourself (not a good idea for amplifier modules because they can be a bit tricky) or have installed by a local repair shop.

[I will apologize if whoever you talked to wasn't as clear on this as they could have been. Because of the high international shipping costs, most of our international customers select this option, so we get used to it's being the preferred choice.]


i sent a msg to kieth on here over the weekend, no reply yet. To be honest, yes it should have been sent back. But thats not really what im 100% mad about, its the fact that they are not going to cover my bill to have someone do it. Now i asked the local paradigm dealer where my speaker is getting delt with, that they would do it for $15 which is fair, but again not the point. I looked through pages and pages on emo's forum and again found tones of ppl with good things to say about their customer service, so i think i need to talk to someone higher up there, then the lady who answers the phone.

Also not sure if i stated this or not, but the day after i added the amp into my setup, my right side main was on ch 4 (the faulty ch) and the mid range driver is now distorting all the time. Now i dont think i can prove that the amp did it, but that just add's to the whole mix as i have to dish out $139 + tax for a new driver.

On the other hand thankfully my mini-x amp is working great and i want to order the xda-2 but im nervous because of this whole issue.
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
As far as I know "a direct replacement wasn't available" generally means that we are out of stock on that amp at the moment. We can't ship you a replacement if we don't have one in stock - even if someone agreed to (or wished to) do so..... if we could do that it would be a very neat trick...

How so? Other than making the OP pay for the shipping, they aren't unless I misunderstood. "A direct replacement wasn't available." They have a satisfaction guaranteed policy, or I would have never ordered. Why not for a Canadian order? I see no mention of exceptions. If Emotiva had sent me a defective unit it would be going back, end of story. Also, I can understand where for normal warranty repairs they won't cover shipping for international orders, but this amp was defective when the box was opened. If it were me and they wouldn't pay shipping that would be the end of the business relationship. It rubs me the wrong way that they didn't jump at making this right. Again, I can't imagine what they're thinking. They seem like a pretty smart company, yet in this case they couldn't appear more dumb and insensitive.
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
OK, I want to address this subject directly.

We do indeed have a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy, and the vast majority of our customers are quite satisfied with the level of service we provide (along with our product performance, quality, and pricing).

Anyone who isn't satisfied with any of our products for any reason is free to return it within 30 days for a full refund; there aren't very many companies I know with such a liberal return policy.... and I don't offhand know of ANY who will pay for the return shipping - certainly not on large heavy items (although there may be one or two out there somewhere). In fact, many companies charge an additional "restocking fee" for returns (read that as a "discourage people from returning stuff fee").

IF we had service centers in other countries, you would be able to get local warranty service. At the moment we can't do that without raising our prices - a lot - (such things cost money). Most of our European and Asian customers seem to find our level of warranty service rather better than what they get from most other US companies.

From the statement that "a replacement wasn't available", it sounds like we were actually considering sending out a replacement (which we don't promise to do), but simply don't have one in stock.

Honestly, I can apologize that we have failed to satisfy you, but I can't really see what else we could have done under the circumstances....

How so? Other than making the OP pay for the shipping, they aren't unless I misunderstood. "A direct replacement wasn't available." They have a satisfaction guaranteed policy, or I would have never ordered. Why not for a Canadian order? I see no mention of exceptions. If Emotiva had sent me a defective unit it would be going back, end of story. Also, I can understand where for normal warranty repairs they won't cover shipping for international orders, but this amp was defective when the box was opened. If it were me and they wouldn't pay shipping that would be the end of the business relationship. It rubs me the wrong way that they didn't jump at making this right. Again, I can't imagine what they're thinking. They seem like a pretty smart company, yet in this case they couldn't appear more dumb and insensitive.
 
Hostility

Hostility

Full Audioholic
Sorry keithe but i dont recall him saying there wasent one available, but said he couldent ship one across the boarder. SO how about i do a full refund. Then next week, ill buy another and you can ship me a different xpa-5? I was also talking to vincent, and he was saying about sending me emo bucks towards a next purcahse. Now i really want to order the xda-2, and would like future buissness, but im a little worried as if something was to go wrong out of the box then i would be in this mess again. Now the tech over the phone said i had a bad channel 4. So he sent me a new channel. (7-14days). I thought it was quiet odd it didnt go into protect but at the point i dont know what to do. Do i just install the new channel and hope it goes away. I dont understand how some amps can make sounds on start up like mine, and most are dead silent. Shouldn't they all be the same?
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Sorry keithe but i dont recall him saying there wasent one available, but said he couldent ship one across the boarder. SO how about i do a full refund. Then next week, ill buy another and you can ship me a different xpa-5? I was also talking to vincent, and he was saying about sending me emo bucks towards a next purcahse. Now i really want to order the xda-2, and would like future buissness, but im a little worried as if something was to go wrong out of the box then i would be in this mess again. Now the tech over the phone said i had a bad channel 4. So he sent me a new channel. (7-14days). I thought it was quiet odd it didnt go into protect but at the point i dont know what to do. Do i just install the new channel and hope it goes away. I dont understand how some amps can make sounds on start up like mine, and most are dead silent. Shouldn't they all be the same?
I would certainly expect every amp of the same manufacturer, model number, and generation (could be minor updates on newer production runs) to have identical characteristics (identical for all practical purposes).

If not, then there is variation in the manufacturing process and that is never a good thing. Read up on the 6 Sigma (started by Motorola) manufacturing techniques to get an idea of the tight tolerances and low failure rates expected and attained from semiconductor plants.

Not a particular knock against Emo (I own 2 products and am satisfied with them), but a generalization that variation in production is bad.
 
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KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
On the question of turn-on noises. The outputs of most of our amps are coupled directly to the speakers (for audio reasons). As the supply voltages settle to their final working values, there may indeed be some slight "whooshing" noises or thumps. Due to the design of the circuitry itself, these noises may indeed vary from module to module and amplifier to amplifier, and they may be louder (or sound somewhat different) on some amps or modules than others; however they are always limited to trivial and safe amounts (and the protection would trip if they exceeded very safe values because of a problem).

The important thing is that, unless there is a problem, they ONLY occur during the few seconds when the amp is "coming up to speed". The modules are all the same when they are operating (after they come on) - which is what counts here.

Think of it like when you turn on your defroster in the car on a cold morning. Every defroster may make a slightly different pattern in the frost as it starts to melt - but all that matters is that the windows ends up clear in the end.
(And, if your defroster happens to make an interesting pattern, but your friend's does not, it is interesting, but not significant.)

Sorry keithe but i dont recall him saying there wasent one available, but said he couldent ship one across the boarder. SO how about i do a full refund. Then next week, ill buy another and you can ship me a different xpa-5? I was also talking to vincent, and he was saying about sending me emo bucks towards a next purcahse. Now i really want to order the xda-2, and would like future buissness, but im a little worried as if something was to go wrong out of the box then i would be in this mess again. Now the tech over the phone said i had a bad channel 4. So he sent me a new channel. (7-14days). I thought it was quiet odd it didnt go into protect but at the point i dont know what to do. Do i just install the new channel and hope it goes away. I dont understand how some amps can make sounds on start up like mine, and most are dead silent. Shouldn't they all be the same?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
OK, I want to address this subject directly.

We do indeed have a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy, and the vast majority of our customers are quite satisfied with the level of service we provide (along with our product performance, quality, and pricing).

Anyone who isn't satisfied with any of our products for any reason is free to return it within 30 days for a full refund; there aren't very many companies I know with such a liberal return policy.... and I don't offhand know of ANY who will pay for the return shipping - certainly not on large heavy items (although there may be one or two out there somewhere). In fact, many companies charge an additional "restocking fee" for returns (read that as a "discourage people from returning stuff fee").

IF we had service centers in other countries, you would be able to get local warranty service. At the moment we can't do that without raising our prices - a lot - (such things cost money). Most of our European and Asian customers seem to find our level of warranty service rather better than what they get from most other US companies.

From the statement that "a replacement wasn't available", it sounds like we were actually considering sending out a replacement (which we don't promise to do), but simply don't have one in stock.

Honestly, I can apologize that we have failed to satisfy you, but I can't really see what else we could have done under the circumstances....
Since it's my post you quoted, I'll respond.

First of all, I think responding in this forum without knowing the facts was ill-advised. Perhaps an "I'll investigate and report back" post would have been better. A PM to the OP, even better.

Somehow Emotiva gave a customer the impression that his case was different because he was a Canadian buyer, and the direction to have a repair done locally was pretty lame, IMO.

Personally, I wouldn't normally expect a company to pay for return shipping under warranty coverage, but this was a case of a product being defective fresh out of the box. That's a disappointing experience to say the least, and I think it's asking a bit much that a customer should have to pay return shipping because of lax quality control at Emotiva (or worse, a design that can't survive shipping).

The last few paragraphs of your response sound like whining.

My original comments still stand. If I got a broken item from Emotiva out of the box, and that box was undamaged, I would expect either a full refund or a new product to show up on my doorstep at no further expense to me. Even if I lived in Canada.

I should also reiterate that I am a past customer of Emotiva, and I was a satisfied buyer. That unit, an ERC-2, had to be repaired under warranty after several months, and I found your warranty service to be fast and effective. I think your electronic products represent a remarkable value for the money. So I'm not some yahoo *****ing from the left field bleachers, I'm telling you as a customer what my expectations would be.

My advice is still to just make it right. You guys are in the spotlight now.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
That's the reason that I left the forum for six month at the beginning of 2008, actually.
Wow, that must have been a heartbreaking experience.

Did you tell everyone on the forum about your bad Emotiva experience before you took the 6 months leave?

If I had seen your experience, I would have stayed far far way from Emotiva.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Personally, I wouldn't normally expect a company to pay for return shipping under warranty coverage, but this was a case of a product being defective fresh out of the box. That's a disappointing experience to say the least, and I think it's asking a bit much that a customer should have to pay return shipping because of lax quality control at Emotiva (or worse, a design that can't survive shipping).
I agree 100%.

If the OP had bought an ATI, Outlaw, Cary, Lexicon, B&K, Theta, Parasound, Bryston, Anthem, NAD, Sunfire, etc, amp from an authorized dealer and the product arrived defective, the OP would have:

1) 100% free return shipping
2) A big apology from the dealer
3) Probably a nice discount as compensation

Having to pay return shipping for a product that arrived defective is 100% pathetic. I would never recommend such a company.

There should be a disclaimer on Emotiva: We sell cheap because YOU pay for all returns even if the amps arrive defective. :eek:

I tell you what. There is NO free lunch. :D
 
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Hostility

Hostility

Full Audioholic
Well not sure if emotiva picked up on this thread other then kieth but I got a call today saying they are going to send me a new unit and take mine back on their expense. They are also going to bench test my new amp making sure it works before sending it out.

As for kieth, your tech said himself to me my module was defective.

It shouldn't have taken all this to get this far but am glad of the end result so far.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well not sure if emotiva picked up on this thread other then kieth but I got a call today saying they are going to send me a new unit and take mine back on their expense. They are also going to bench test my new amp making sure it works before sending it out.

As for kieth, your tech said himself to me my module was defective.

It shouldn't have taken all this to get this far but am glad of the end result so far.
Glad we're able to help out a bro. ;) :D

See, we could have done the same for Adam years ago. :D
 
Send Margaritas

Send Margaritas

Audioholic
Really, it is just good business. You can build real customer loyalty through support, but such support tends to vary from industry to industry.

It's amazing how good support is in the firearms industries. I've had amazing support from STI/SVI, Springfield, Redding, Dillon, Savage, CZ...even for some things that nobody would fault them for denying. I bought one progressive reloading machine made by Dillon used, from a third party, and called in search of a part (spring). I talked with them, and they sent me a call tag to ship it to them. They sent me a new machine. I did buy two more from them, without a second thought.

I have had no issues with my XPA-5, and am very happy with it. I'm happy they are taking care of the OP. Yet it would have been more reassuring to hear they had done a simple replacement, and paid the shipping for the unit with the issue. I would have felt better recommending them to others.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Me Too

Glad we're able to help out a bro. ;) :D

See, we could have done the same for Adam years ago. :D
Yeah, I knew of Adam's dilemma years ago with Emo and I went and ordered a stereo amp anyway, arrived with blown right channel out of the box, same day they had a replacement on the way and a prepaid return shipping label for the defective amp. I thought they had great CS, but what do I know.:D I do know that I'm happy with Crown amps;) Thanks ADTG:) now I have to join the the ATI camp:D
 
Hostility

Hostility

Full Audioholic
yea, seemed all was good for any shipping in the states. I understand why they didnt want to ship to canada. But within the first 30 days is critical for someones first impressions.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, I knew of Adam's dilemma years ago with Emo and I went and ordered a stereo amp anyway, arrived with blown right channel out of the box, same day they had a replacement on the way and a prepaid return shipping label for the defective amp. I thought they had great CS, but what do I know.:D I do know that I'm happy with Crown amps;) Thanks ADTG:) now I have to join the the ATI camp:D
As long as Emotiva treats all customers great, we can continue to recommend Emotiva. ;)

Gotta keep them in line sometimes. :D

You notice I kind of like things related to the Harman group (Crown, ATI) ? ;)
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Well not sure if emotiva picked up on this thread other then kieth but I got a call today saying they are going to send me a new unit and take mine back on their expense. They are also going to bench test my new amp making sure it works before sending it out.

As for kieth, your tech said himself to me my module was defective.

It shouldn't have taken all this to get this far but am glad of the end result so far.
Very nicely done, Emotiva. They get a gold star. No demerits for tardiness, this time. See how easy that was? :)
 

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