Audio Power Cables / Cords - Do they really make a difference?

[avliner]

...The irony is that they actually find the offer confrontational instead of elucidating the matter.

Somehow expected

 

[jneutron]

It wasn't a vendor. I do believe I have a Pangea AC9 coming courtesy of Fuzz.

Physics is great and all but not germane to the current (pun intended) context.

Physics? We don't need no stinkin physics..

EE, different story. gotta have EE's.

The ground wire of a line cord can carry the signal return current. Not the IC shield.

Think of it this way...use a twisted pair in place of the IC. It will probably be good enough. Now, untwist this pair, and route the ground wire on the line cord to the wall outlet, then tape it to the source line cord to the source output jack. You have formed a huge loop which will trap external magnetic fields.

That is what most audio systems do.

Changing the PC can indeed alter a system, specifically if that system does not control the input signal current properly. Single ended drive is an especially large offender in that regard.

Any PC that changes the sound of the system does so because of the system, not because of any material or silly physics property of the cord.

jn

 

[jinjuku]

Physics? We don't need no stinkin physics..

EE, different story. gotta have EE's.

The ground wire of a line cord can carry the signal return current. Not the IC shield.

Think of it this way...use a twisted pair in place of the IC. It will probably be good enough. Now, untwist this pair, and route the ground wire on the line cord to the wall outlet, then tape it to the source line cord to the source output jack. You have formed a huge loop which will trap external magnetic fields.

That is what most audio systems do.

Changing the PC can indeed alter a system, specifically if that system does not control the input signal current properly. Single ended drive is an especially large offender in that regard.

Any PC that changes the sound of the system does so because of the system, not because of any material or silly physics property of the cord.

jn

I'm not even talking about at PC that can alter the response characteristic of the device it's connected to. I'm not talking about the transfer function. Again a cable can be made to purposefully do something and then the difference marketed. I am challenging the blanket notions that are made about night and day differences when you have left the room and someone has made change without your knowledge.

I had a poster here offer to send Nordost and Pangea. I took them up on that offer. I PM'd, I publicly posted that "Great send them on out". The silence speaks for itself.

Just like the burned in cable debate. Both sides are frustrating due to the very fact if you listen to your system for any length of time, well, everyone has 'burned in' cables.

 

[jneutron]

I am challenging the blanket notions that are made about night and day differences when you have left the room and someone has made change without your knowledge.

Unsupported anecdotes require questioning. That's a no brainer.

Don't expect engagement in a scientific protocol, they've nothing to gain.

jn

 

[jinjuku]

Unsupported anecdotes require questioning. That's a no brainer.

Don't expect engagement in a scientific protocol, they've nothing to gain.

jn

I know. I just like collecting sea shells so to speak.

 

[fuzz092888]

Physics and discussion aside. I just want one proponent to step up. I find it humorous, that in the example of the cable burn in proponents, they wouldn't let me ship them randomly labeled burned and non-burned in cable with a password protected legend for after their evaluation.

The irony is that they actually find the offer confrontational instead of elucidating the matter.

Hey you can ship me whatever you want anytime. I'm game

I had a poster here offer to send Nordost and Pangea. I took them up on that offer. I PM'd, I publicly posted that "Great send them on out". The silence speaks for itself.

Not me. Mine went out post haste. Speaking of, did it arrive safely?

 

[jinjuku]

Hey you can ship me whatever you want anytime. I'm game



Not me. Mine went out post haste. Speaking of, did it arrive safely?

Thanks. Arrived yesterday evening. I just went through a few rounds of the THX intro and so far there isn't a night and day difference. I would need someone in here randomly switching cables. I have it running subwoofer duty currently.

The Pangea would make cable routing and management next to impossible.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks. Arrived yesterday evening. I just went through a few rounds of the THX intro and so far there isn't a night and day difference.

I'm shocked! Shocked!

 

[3db]

I'm shocked! Shocked!

Are you touching the hot side of the cable again?? Shame on you you reckless thrill seeker.

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks. Arrived yesterday evening. I just went through a few rounds of the THX intro and so far there isn't a night and day difference. I would need someone in here randomly switching cables. I have it running subwoofer duty currently.

The Pangea would make cable routing and management next to impossible.

Yea, tell me about it. I tried it out before I put the Oppo into the entertainment center because there was no way that thing was gonna fit. I also didn't like using it because it looked like it was pulling itself out of the back of the Oppo, since I had the Oppo on top of the entertainment center and the outlet was near the floor. No good.

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks. Arrived yesterday evening. I just went through a few rounds of the THX intro and so far there isn't a night and day difference.

No night and day difference? Most likely "operator error"

 

[avnetguy]

No night and day difference? Most likely "operator error"

Maybe you need to plug it in during the night then listen the next day. Might take some time to tame those wild electrons down.

Steve

 

[haraldo]

 

[Audioklepto]

Wow, this thread seems to have died 2 months ago. Great info though, thanx!
I must add... I pulled all the cable when I built my house some years ago and code then was for 12 AWG for outlets and 14 for lighting. No 14 allowed for outlets. This should clear up any controversy concerning power cable difference!

 

[nickwin]

Looking at the Ampacity vs Gauge graph, it looks like that if I have a power amp capable of drawing 26 amps out of the wall, I would potentially see a real performance increase going from the stock 12AWG power cable to a 10 AWG one? Am I interpreting that graph right?

 

[Speedskater]

Tell us about the last time that you used all 3100 Watt?

It's like replacing one link in a chain. While this chain ends at your amplifier, it starts at that power company transformer down the street.

 

[nickwin]

Tell us about the last time that you used all 3100 Watt?

It's like replacing one link in a chain. While this chain ends at your amplifier, it starts at that power company transformer down the street.

If we're talking continuous probably never, but powering a pair of 18's, I don't think it's out of the question. If we're talking peak then probably quite frequently.

I'm pretty far into the PC's make no difference camp, I've never seen an argument for them that made ant real sense to me. But then I saw that graph and if I'm understanding it right they technically could make a difference in some situations, and maybe even in my own case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting miracles or even any audible change whatsoever, but in theory there could be some benifit, no?

Good point about the PC, just being a small piece of a chain. You could say the same thing about speaker cable gauge vs internal wire gauge (being much thinner) though, but we all know gauge still matters with speaker cable. It also begs the question, what gauge wire is used for the power lines in residential homes?

 

[TLS Guy]

Looking at the Ampacity vs Gauge graph, it looks like that if I have a power amp capable of drawing 26 amps out of the wall, I would potentially see a real performance increase going from the stock 12AWG power cable to a 10 AWG one? Am I interpreting that graph right?

You can't draw 26 amps out of the wall. To do that you would have to do something illegal at the panel and then burn your house down.

So that amp has a rogue spec or worse.

In any event it would not draw 26 amps continuously, and I it would take a huge system with multiple drivers to use a system like that.

I use a bank of 7 two channel power amps on my rig, but I use two dedicated circuits. Even then I had to install slow blow circuit breakers for the three amps that power the mains to handle the turn on current.

Something is very adrift in what you are trying to do.

 

[TLS Guy]

If we're talking continuous probably never, but powering a pair of 18's, I don't think it's out of the question. If we're talking peak then probably quite frequently.

I'm pretty far into the PC's make no difference camp, I've never seen an argument for them that made ant real sense to me. But then I saw that graph and if I'm understanding it right they technically could make a difference in some situations, and maybe even in my own case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting miracles or even any audible change whatsoever, but in theory there could be some benifit, no?

Good point about the PC, just being a small piece of a chain. You could say the same thing about speaker cable gauge vs internal wire gauge (being much thinner) though, but we all know gauge still matters with speaker cable. It also begs the question, what gauge wire is used for the power lines in residential homes?

There is no sub driver on the planet that will handle that much power even for an instant. These sub driver manufacturers lie through their teeth and that's putting it mildly.

If you want a good sub bass system you need to design an efficient one an not a brute force one.

There is very little power below 80 Hz and if you know what you are doing it takes very little power to create floor shaking bass.

 

[nickwin]

Hmm, maybe I am grossly overestimating how much power I am using. The amp is a crown xls5000, and it IS capable of drawing 26a continuous. As is the QSC rmx5050a and all of its sister amps.

I'm pretty sure I can draw transient peaks of well over 20amps on my 20 amp circuit. 20a circuits are designed to take up to 20a continuous, although I've been told <80% of that is recommend.

Again, I'm talking in theory here, in not saying I'm going to hear anything and I'm certainly not suggesting anyone should go out and buy a overpriced aftermarket PC