TAD 2201 Speakers

[PENG]

He's not the only one.

You couldn't overlook that one?, good thing it meant the same regardless.

 

[PENG]

Thanks. That makes sense.

TAD does list the 2201 as a 4 ohm speaker.

TAD should have been listed the 2201 as 89dB/2.83V/m to be more consistent.

As long as we are comparing apple to apple, it is fine and still useful, to some extent. It will be even better if they standardize on one.

 

[cpp]

You couldn't overlook that one?, good thing it meant the same regardless.

yep, I see it now

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As long as we are comparing apple to apple, it is fine and still useful, to some extent. It will be even better if they standardize on one.

Considering the fact that speakers vary greatly from 4ohm to 8ohm these days, it would reduce confusion.

And 89dB/2.83V/m looks a lot better for spec than 86dB/W/m anyway, right?

Why would anyone want 86dB when he could have 89dB?

 

[GranteedEV]

the db/w spec is more useful for figuring out how much power is needed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm listening to Dave Mathews/ Tim Reynolds Live at Radio City Hall through these TAD now. Blasting away. I'm in my bedroom folding laundry. And the music sounds crystal clear like the live concert is happening right in the next room.

Jared, please tell me this album is not highly DRC! It sounds incredible.

 

[monkish54]

DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR6 over -8.32 dB 1-01 Bartender.mp3
DR7 over -8.09 dB 1-02 When The World Ends.mp3
DR7 over -9.02 dB 1-03 Stay Or Leave.mp3
DR6 over -8.23 dB 1-04 Save Me.mp3
DR6 over -7.99 dB 1-05 Crush.mp3
DR7 over -9.59 dB 1-06 Do Damn Lucky_.mp3
DR7 over -9.41 dB 1-07 Gravedigger.mp3
DR8 over -10.79 dB 1-08 The Maker.mp3
DR7 over -9.87 dB 1-09 Old Dirt Hill (Bring That Beat Back).mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -7.94 dB 1-10 Eh Hee.mp3
DR9 over -11.08 dB 1-11 Betrayal.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.30 dB 1-12 Out Of My Hands.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -10.11 dB 1-13 Still Water.mp3
DR6 over -7.45 dB 1-14 Don't Drink The Water.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.26 dB 2-01 Oh.mp3
DR7 over -8.96 dB 2-02 Cornbread.mp3
DR7 over -8.45 dB 2-03 Crash Into Me.mp3
DR7 over -8.64 dB 2-04 Down By The River.mp3
DR10 -0.00 dB -13.76 dB 2-05 You Are My Sanity.mp3
DR15 -0.00 dB -17.80 dB 2-06 Sister.mp3
DR6 over -7.42 dB 2-07 Lie In Our Graves.mp3
DR8 over -9.88 dB 2-08 Some Devil.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -9.83 dB 2-09 Grace Is Gone.mp3
DR6 over -7.60 dB 2-10 Dancing Nancies.mp3
DR6 over -7.27 dB 2-11 #41.mp3
DR6 over -8.09 dB 2-12 Two Step.mp3

"Over" means it's clipping and "-0.00 dB" means it is as loud as possible before clipping. There is no headroom at all.

I wouldn't worry too much about the DRC if it sounds good to you.

Aside from being a speaker snob, I am a music snob too. I want the best of the best, but sometimes I still listen to Sarah J and other "subpar" tracks.

Pushing a track into clipping bothers me alot more than just regular DRC. It kinda defeats the purpose (for me) to spend so much on speakers and then listen to tracks that don't present a waveform faithful to the original recording.

*When I save the post, the "chart" becomes kinda hard to read. Sorry about that.

 

[GranteedEV]

Jared, can you do the same with the various songs i've sent you in the past?

 

[monkish54]

Considering the fact that speakers vary greatly from 4ohm to 8ohm these days, it would reduce confusion.

And 89dB/2.83V/m looks a lot better for spec than 86dB/W/m anyway, right?

The 2201 is listed as W/m because 86db is fairly "high". (Could also be because it's their pro stuff.)

If you look at the CR1 they list 2.83 Volts. The CR1 is only 86db at 2.83 Volts. That's 83db at 1 watt. There is no way I'm listing my 40K bookshelf speaker as 83db/1 watt. :O

 

[monkish54]

Jared, can you do the same with the various songs i've sent you in the past?

Absolutely, Sir.

I have to do 'em one-by-one since they're FLAC so I'll do it once I get home from class. (I have to study for an exam I have in a few hours. )

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR6 over -8.32 dB 1-01 Bartender.mp3
DR7 over -8.09 dB 1-02 When The World Ends.mp3
DR7 over -9.02 dB 1-03 Stay Or Leave.mp3
DR6 over -8.23 dB 1-04 Save Me.mp3
DR6 over -7.99 dB 1-05 Crush.mp3
DR7 over -9.59 dB 1-06 Do Damn Lucky_.mp3
DR7 over -9.41 dB 1-07 Gravedigger.mp3
DR8 over -10.79 dB 1-08 The Maker.mp3
DR7 over -9.87 dB 1-09 Old Dirt Hill (Bring That Beat Back).mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -7.94 dB 1-10 Eh Hee.mp3
DR9 over -11.08 dB 1-11 Betrayal.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.30 dB 1-12 Out Of My Hands.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -10.11 dB 1-13 Still Water.mp3
DR6 over -7.45 dB 1-14 Don't Drink The Water.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.26 dB 2-01 Oh.mp3
DR7 over -8.96 dB 2-02 Cornbread.mp3
DR7 over -8.45 dB 2-03 Crash Into Me.mp3
DR7 over -8.64 dB 2-04 Down By The River.mp3
DR10 -0.00 dB -13.76 dB 2-05 You Are My Sanity.mp3
DR15 -0.00 dB -17.80 dB 2-06 Sister.mp3
DR6 over -7.42 dB 2-07 Lie In Our Graves.mp3
DR8 over -9.88 dB 2-08 Some Devil.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -9.83 dB 2-09 Grace Is Gone.mp3
DR6 over -7.60 dB 2-10 Dancing Nancies.mp3
DR6 over -7.27 dB 2-11 #41.mp3
DR6 over -8.09 dB 2-12 Two Step.mp3

"Over" means it's clipping and "-0.00 dB" means it is as loud as possible before clipping. There is no headroom at all.

I wouldn't worry too much about the DRC if it sounds good to you.

Aside from being a speaker snob, I am a music snob too. I want the best of the best, but sometimes I still listen to Sarah J and other "subpar" tracks.

Pushing a track into clipping bothers me alot more than just regular DRC. It kinda defeats the purpose (for me) to spend so much on speakers and then listen to tracks that don't present a waveform faithful to the original recording.

Oh, the truth hurts badly.

Cuts like a knife.

Well, I listened to Tracy Chapman this a.m. and it sounded great even though it has no DRC.

So there's hope yet for me.

But what about the Phil Demo CD we all got with our awesome Phil speakers? It sounds awesome, but are all the tracks also DRC?

 

[monkish54]

Oh, the truth hurts badly.

Cuts like a knife.

LOL That album is pretty rough.

Well, I listened to Tracy Chapman this a.m. and it sounded great even though it has no DRC.

The DR is one of the reasons it sounds so good. Excessive Dynamic Range Compression is no good.

I think this is a good way to sum up Dynamic Range Compression as far as quality is concerned:

You can have a terrible recording with quite a bit of DR, but you can't have an excellent recording with very little DR. (Depending on the genre) Screamo is probably not going to need the same DR as Jazz in order to sound realistic.

DR doesn't set quality, but DRC, especially a lot of it, is a good way to ruin quality.

I LOVE the Tracy album. Behind the Wall is one of my favorite tracks of all time. It sounds amazing on the Phil 2.

But what about the Phil Demo CD we all got with our awesome Phil speakers? It sounds awesome, but are all the tracks also DRC?

The Demo CD is okay. Some good tracks, some bad. I'll post those files when I get home too.

 

[PENG]

the db/w spec is more useful for figuring out how much power is needed.

That is true, but it still confused ADTG into believing his speaker should sound less sensitive than its specs indicate, then once he realizes he was comparing two dB/w to dBV/2.83V he thought his speaker is as sensitive as one listed as 89 dB/2.83V that is not correct either.

 

[PENG]

Considering the fact that speakers vary greatly from 4ohm to 8ohm these days, it would reduce confusion.

And 89dB/2.83V/m looks a lot better for spec than 86dB/W/m anyway, right?

Why would anyone want 86dB when he could have 89dB?

It may look better on a quick glance, in reality your 86 dB/W/m 4 ohm speaker is still less sensitive than one listed as 89 dB/m at 2.83V. To compare apple to apple, you need to compare speakers of very similar impedance and phase angle characteristics. That may be too much trouble for people but a couple of dB either way is not a big deal so we don't have to worry or over analyze things.

I was just trying to suggest one reason why those 2201 may sound like they are more sensitive when they probably are not.

 

[PENG]

The best album I have ever seen is Diana Krall's Live in Paris. The tracks have a DR between 13-16 and none of them clip. Listen to the Piano in "Fly Me To The Moon", then listen to it in Adele's "Someone like you". It'll make you puke in your soup!

Listen to "Fly.." and then listen to "Someone..." hear how much louder the track is? Hear how the piano doesn't sound NEARLY as accurate?

Have you listened to Adele's live at the Royal Albert Hall? I could hear distortion whenever she ramps up but I seem to be alone on this when I mentioned it in my HQ sound albums thread. I did some deep googling and found someone mentioned that she had trouble with her vocal cord but now I wonder if the distortion in fact had something to do with the mastering/recording techniques as I initial thought.

Yo-Yo plays Ennio don't sound HQ to me either but ADTG thought it was good. I also could hear distortion in that recording.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you listened to Adele's live at the Royal Albert Hall? I could hear distortion whenever she ramps up but I seem to be alone on this when I mentioned it in my HQ sound albums thread. I did some deep googling and found someone mentioned that she had trouble with her vocal cord but now I wonder if the distortion in fact had something to do with the mastering/recording techniques as I initial thought.

Yo-Yo plays Ennio don't sound HQ to me either but ADTG thought it was good. I also could hear distortion in that recording.

Is there something wrong with me?

What distortion did you hear on that Ennio album?

I think Jared said that Adele album is highly DRC also. It sounded great to me.

Damn, there is something wrong with me.

 

[PENG]

Is there something wrong with me?

What distortion did you hear on that Ennio album?

I think Jared said that Adele album is highly DRC also. It sounded great to me.

Damn, there is something wrong with me.

May be it is me, my family members told me that's the way her voice sounds, not distortion. The Ennio one is not bad, just not as good as my other two YoYo albums, in that the strings don't sound as smooth but since the current topic is about DRC and related distortion/clipping so I called it distortion for now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

May be it is me, my family members told me that's the way her voice sounds, not distortion. The Ennio one is not bad, just not as good as my other two YoYo albums, in that the strings don't sound as smooth but since the current topic is about DRC and related distortion/clipping so I called it distortion for now.

So it's not crackling, popping, static, hissing sound? Just not as smooth?

 

[cpp]

DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR6 over -8.32 dB 1-01 Bartender.mp3
DR7 over -8.09 dB 1-02 When The World Ends.mp3
DR7 over -9.02 dB 1-03 Stay Or Leave.mp3
DR6 over -8.23 dB 1-04 Save Me.mp3
DR6 over -7.99 dB 1-05 Crush.mp3
DR7 over -9.59 dB 1-06 Do Damn Lucky_.mp3
DR7 over -9.41 dB 1-07 Gravedigger.mp3
DR8 over -10.79 dB 1-08 The Maker.mp3
DR7 over -9.87 dB 1-09 Old Dirt Hill (Bring That Beat Back).mp3
DR7 -0.00 dB -7.94 dB 1-10 Eh Hee.mp3
DR9 over -11.08 dB 1-11 Betrayal.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.30 dB 1-12 Out Of My Hands.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -10.11 dB 1-13 Still Water.mp3
DR6 over -7.45 dB 1-14 Don't Drink The Water.mp3
DR11 -0.00 dB -14.26 dB 2-01 Oh.mp3
DR7 over -8.96 dB 2-02 Cornbread.mp3
DR7 over -8.45 dB 2-03 Crash Into Me.mp3
DR7 over -8.64 dB 2-04 Down By The River.mp3
DR10 -0.00 dB -13.76 dB 2-05 You Are My Sanity.mp3
DR15 -0.00 dB -17.80 dB 2-06 Sister.mp3
DR6 over -7.42 dB 2-07 Lie In Our Graves.mp3
DR8 over -9.88 dB 2-08 Some Devil.mp3
DR8 -0.00 dB -9.83 dB 2-09 Grace Is Gone.mp3
DR6 over -7.60 dB 2-10 Dancing Nancies.mp3
DR6 over -7.27 dB 2-11 #41.mp3
DR6 over -8.09 dB 2-12 Two Step.mp3

"Over" means it's clipping and "-0.00 dB" means it is as loud as possible before clipping. There is no headroom at all.

I wouldn't worry too much about the DRC if it sounds good to you.

Aside from being a speaker snob, I am a music snob too. I want the best of the best, but sometimes I still listen to Sarah J and other "subpar" tracks.

Pushing a track into clipping bothers me alot more than just regular DRC. It kinda defeats the purpose (for me) to spend so much on speakers and then listen to tracks that don't present a waveform faithful to the original recording.

*When I save the post, the "chart" becomes kinda hard to read. Sorry about that.

monk are you using the DR plugin in foobar2000 for these readings ? just wondering

 

[PENG]

So it's not crackling, popping, static, hissing sound? Just not as smooth?

Just not as smooth, and only strings are noticeable. Adele otoh sounds like clipping, not very obvious but I have no trouble hearing it