Pioneer Andrew Jones SP-PK52FS review

[KEW]

Although the EMP's are my winner I could easily see someone else deciding to vote the 52's as better.

This is actually one hell of an endorsement for the 52's once you figure in price and that the Pio is a floorstander with decent bass (which was not considered in the comparo).

I should also note that I think the 52's would be good for HT because the HF effect will add impact to any sudden sound, etc. In a way it adds perceived dynamics with out needing so much absolute SPL - an especially nice trick for anyone in an apartment.

This has been pretty educational for me, and I am very interested in seeing what Gene (with measurements and experienced ear has to say!

 

[KEW]

Cool, my brother just finished an interview with Jon Anderson which should post at the beginning of November. He is getting back with Yes and Trevor Rabin to make a new album. I'm looking forward as I wasn't too keen on their replacement singer during the last tour.

Great, I'm looking forward to the review.
I agree on the last tour. Good to see Jon has his voice back (I hope - seems like he has been singing too close his own limits for a long time).
I ran into Steve Howe in a hotel lobby entryway three years ago in Philadelphia. I think he was about as surprised to be recognized as I was to see him. He was teaching a master guitar class. I mostly just stared at him with a stupid grin on my face until his ride came - so much for being glib through my brush with fame!

 

[ahblaza]

Although the EMP's are my winner I could easily see someone else deciding to vote the 52's as better.

This is actually one hell of an endorsement for the 52's once you figure in price and that the Pio is a floorstander with decent bass (which was not considered in the comparo).

I should also note that I think the 52's would be good for HT because the HF effect will add impact to any sudden sound, etc. In a way it adds perceived dynamics with out needing so much absolute SPL - an especially nice trick for anyone in an apartment.

This has been pretty educational for me, and I am very interested in seeing what Gene (with measurements and experienced ear has to say!

Hey Kurt, I'm going to raise my 52's about 4-5" to put tweeter to ear level, I have to really slouch in my listening spot to appreciate the liquid airy treble of the 52, do you think this would be OK or a detriment to it's SQ?
Cheers Jeff

 

[zieglj01]

For anyone not familiar with the EMP 41B, here is a link to Gene's review of it. It is worth pointing out the the 41B has higher quality drivers than those used for the EMP Impression series.
EMP VT-40.2 Tube Amplifier & 41-SE/B Speaker System Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

It will be neat to see what Gene finds when he measures the Pioneers. Through tipped up high frequency and/or some type of dispersion innovation (those are my best guesses), Pioneer has accomplished a very airy and shiny effect for the sound of these speakers. I find it very appealing. First off, I am impressed that the soft dome tweeter can put so much shine on cold steel (and brass if you want to get technical). It provides an open airiness which is amazing! It has none of the audible distortion that often comes with this HF response in less than ideal aluminum tweeter designs (and is a source of listening fatigue for me). With this effect comes the amazing imaging and broad sound stage. On many types of music, the benefit of this effect suggests the Pioneers as speakers that could easily command $1000/pr. I do not have a pair of speakers that performs this particular effect quite so well!
On the downside, it seems like mid-range and mid-treble are a bit subdued compared to the highs. Listening to ride cymbals while switching between the two speakers, the PIO's have beautiful open rendition of the higher harmonics, but the lower components of the cymbals' harmonic signature are comparatively muted. About everything on the Pio's sounds close mic'ed, but when comparing it to a speaker like the EMP 41B's it is clear that the lower sounds are being sacrificed. The Pioneers sound comparatively thin on a lot of music.
I heard the same general trends when comparing the 52's to the 22's, so I may have short-changed the 22's. The HF effect of the 52's is a bigger attention getter than the stronger, fuller midrange. Shine is a good term because it not only describes the sound, but also the way it catches your attention.

No surprise here, that your preference was to the more expensive
(suggested list/retail price) EMP 41B. I agree that the Phase Two
Pioneer speakers, as good as they are - are somewhat limited in
the midrange, compared to speakers that are on another level. >
Their midrange is still good to me - however compared to what I
am use to listening at, I find the midrange and maybe some of the
lower treble, lacks definition > I can still hear detail, however the
resolution is not as good as my more expensive speakers >> With
the treble of the phase two (2), I hear no sharp or edgy or smear
type sound, and I get no ear fatigue - plus I can listen a long time.
While they may or may not measure so-called pefect > I find their
voicing good and balanced enough, to bring me listening pleasure
from my sources. Where you may use the word shine, > I use the
terms like open and more alive or vivid, with-out being aggressive.
The speakers are cheap in price - however, a nice step above them
boxy entry level sounds on the market. Polk, Klipsch, Infinity, and
some PSB, Paradigm, Boston and Definitive Tech, have been thrown
out the door. The Phase Two are still resting in my room for now.

 

[zieglj01]

I'm going to raise my 52's about 4-5" to put tweeter to ear level, I have to really slouch in my listening spot to appreciate the liquid airy treble of the 52, do you think this would be OK or a detriment to it's SQ?

There is one way to find out.

 

[ahblaza]

There is one way to find out.

Why didn't I think of that answer, thanks Jim........

 

[zieglj01]

I should also note that I think the 52's would be good for HT because the HF effect will add impact to any sudden sound, etc. In a way it adds perceived dynamics with out needing so much absolute SPL - an especially nice trick for anyone in an apartment.

The phase two (2) are not a beast and are not a wimp > I still
believe that most people with a Home Theater set-up, are not
head-bangers. However, I guess most forum members like AVS,
HT Shack, and Audioholics are still pushing for the head-banging
reccomendations. For the ones on a limited budget > and with
families and who do not have a dedicated HT room, or be limited
to an apartment, and who do not desire extreme levels, they can
and will do the job. Also, I do not reccomend cheap mass market
type subs, or boomy/mushy subs for these speakers.

Even the BS22 is nice for dorm type rooms, for students on their
college budgets. Also it is a mystery >> then again maybe not,
I can still hear the BS22 in a 20 X 20 room above human talking
levels.

 

[KEW]

No surprise here, that your preference was to the more expensive
(suggested list/retail price) EMP 41B. I agree that the Phase Two
Pioneer speakers, as good as they are - are somewhat limited in
the midrange, compared to speakers that are on another level. >
Their midrange is still good to me - however compared to what I
am use to listening at, I find the midrange and maybe some of the
lower treble, lacks definition > I can still hear detail, however the
resolution is not as good as my more expensive speakers >> With
the treble of the phase two (2), I hear no sharp or edgy or smear
type sound, and I get no ear fatigue - plus I can listen a long time.
While they may or may not measure so-called pefect > I find their
voicing good and balanced enough, to bring me listening pleasure
from my sources. Where you may use the word shine, > I use the
terms like open and more alive or vivid, with-out being aggressive.
The speakers are cheap in price - however, a nice step above them
boxy entry level sounds on the market. Polk, Klipsch, Infinity, and
some PSB, Paradigm, Boston and Definitive Tech, have been thrown
out the door. The Phase Two are still resting in my room for now.

Everything you say here is in agreement with my perceptions. I'm not sure how they are obtaining the unique HF sound imaging, but I like it and do not feel it is unnatural. I wish I could add it to my other speakers!

The 22's don't have it as much, but have a better balance ala the EMP 41B. You should pick up a pair of 52's just to listen to, then return them if you cannot fit them in.

 

[zieglj01]

You should pick up a pair of 52's just to listen to, then return them if you cannot fit them in.

I still may do an in-home audition for the fun of it. Living
conditions/enviorment have changed over the years. I am
still a fan of good towers that work/fit, and sound good. >
However there is still something special, about some good
design/engineered bookshelf speakers, and they do tend to
be my preference. A lot of towers can fall short, in the bass
handling department.

 

[KEW]

I still may do an in-home audition for the fun of it. Living
conditions/enviorment have changed over the years. I am
still a fan of good towers that work/fit, and sound good. >
However there is still something special, about some good
design/engineered bookshelf speakers, and they do tend to
be my preference. A lot of towers can fall short, in the bass
handling department.

I generally like BS over FS speakers as well. Usually the FS have some resonance issues. Few FS are braced to the rigidity of a BS. I was impressed that the Pioneers did not have this fault (that I noticed).
I'd really love to hear your opinion on the differences between the 52's and the 22's. It is more than just the added bass. Usually smaller speakers image better than the bigger ones, but not with the 22 and 52!

 

[afterlife2]

There is one way to find out.

and PICTURES would be nice too.

 

[crzycuyler]

I am downgrading from a pair of B&W 685s and B&W ASW610 Subwoofer and am considering this pioneer set. Am I going to underwhelmed in this transition? I haven't yet heard these, but I have read some great reviews. I am very interested.

 

[KEW]

I am downgrading from a pair of B&W 685s and B&W ASW610 Subwoofer and am considering this pioneer set. Am I going to underwhelmed in this transition? I haven't yet heard these, but I have read some great reviews. I am very interested.

A lot of the beauty of these speakers is that they are well distributed and inexpensive. Just go to Best Buy, float $200 on your credit card and see how they sound in your home setup. If you don't like them, simply return them for a credit back on your card. It doesn't get any easier to try out a pair of speakers.
I can say that the Pioneers are nice speakers and I was non-plussed the last time I listened to B&W 6 series speakers. However, given that there was 3 years between when I listened to them, I cannot fairly state one is better than the other.

If your down grade pushes you into a less than $500/pr budget, the Pioneers should definitely be on your list to try out.

 

[zieglj01]

I am downgrading from a pair of B&W 685s and B&W ASW610 Subwoofer and am considering this pioneer set. Am I going to underwhelmed in this transition? I haven't yet heard these, but I have read some great reviews. I am very interested.

No guarantees - however with the Pioneer, no nasal or congested
sound, no boom and no sizzle, and no hollow or shouty sound, >
no honk or boxy sound, no excess sibilance or hiss. Voices sound
realistic, talking or singing. No real edge, sharp or harsh character
from musical instruments. Also, no boom or mushy bass to muddy
the midrange. Now if the source that you are listening to is poorly
recorded, the Pioneer's will not polish it. I will say that there is a
chance, that you may like the so-called cheap speakers.

 

[Hyrlyfrm]

If you would still be interested in the older versions, Newegg.com has some pretty regular sales on them. I picked up 4 sp-bs41's and a cs21 for $225. The only caveat, for some, is you will have to subscribe to their email promotions, which isn't a bad thing if you're a techie.

As far as sound quality is concerned, I thought I would be disappointed comparing them to my NHT Classic 3's that I use for stereo listening. They really do sound pretty damn good, especially for the price. They lack the detail and the I couldn't get the bass to sound as tight with my limited placement options, but the soundstage and imaging is excellent. They are surprisingly detailed, just not as good as my NHT's.

 

[alphaiii]

If you would still be interested in the older versions, Newegg.com has some pretty regular sales on them. I picked up 4 sp-bs41's and a cs21 for $225. The only caveat, for some, is you will have to subscribe to their email promotions, which isn't a bad thing if you're a techie.

As far as sound quality is concerned, I thought I would be disappointed comparing them to my NHT Classic 3's that I use for stereo listening. They really do sound pretty damn good, especially for the price. They lack the detail and the I couldn't get the bass to sound as tight with my limited placement options, but the soundstage and imaging is excellent. They are surprisingly detailed, just not as good as my NHT's.

I have a pair of the FS52's in house now, and hope to compare them to my NHT Three's soon as well...

 

[zieglj01]

I have a pair of the FS52's in house now, and hope to compare them to my NHT Three's soon as well...

So I guess, no resistance with you.

This has been an interesting exploration - the Pioneer 3(1), non AJ,
the (1) series, (2) series, and the SDF-K, also an AJ designed series.
I prefer the SDF-K series over the (1) series >> However, I give the
edge to the (2) series over the SDF-K, due to the tweeter, imaging
and soundstage >>> However, that bass from the little 3(1) is still
unique to me. I do prefer the cheaper price BS22, to the 3(1).

If I can find a way to load and get the towers home, I may go ahead
and give them a real test drive in house.

 

[zieglj01]

For the 2 or 3 who may be interested >> this is the S-31
and it was no wimp. Also, the grills were easy to remove.
S-31B-LR-K - Series 3 Bookshelf Loudspeakers | Pioneer Electronics USA

This is the AJ design SDF-2K, a lot of work put in this one.
He put a 10 element crossover in it.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers/S-DF2-K

Move down the page >
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5i4NnGbfKnoJ:www.soundstagelive.com/shows/hifi1999/showstop2.shtml+pioneer's+andrew+jones+iso+bafflr+technology&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[KEW]

The approach that Pioneer has taken with this latest series is noteworthy.
Many companies would have looked at the competition and decided what price they could charge and still have a winning product.
In the case of the 2 series, I really don't see any room for another company to reverse engineer them and undercut the price. As Andrew Jones said in the interview, they have capitalized on Pioneer's resources and the economy of scale associated with a good selling budget speaker.
On a smaller scale, it would be impossible to produce equivalent cabinets, drivers, crossover, and hardware and make a profit.
Now you could just buy SP-FS52, add a decent hardwood veneer, rebrand, sell them for $500 each, and you would have a viable product!

 

[ahblaza]

Pioneer Speakers

I put the 52's through a variety of music last night. I was in for a real surprise. I had them on the base that came with the speakers and did not raise them as I intended to do. They were about 6.5 feet apart toed in with the inside baffle aimed at my shoulders. I drove them with an Onkyo 709. My initial impression closely mirrors Kurt's (KEW) review. What surprised me most was how wide and deep the stage was and gave a real insight into this presentation, I closed my eyes and sound seemed to come from all around these speakers, well beyond the physical enclosures, this width and depth with the speakers only 6.5 apart and about 8.5-9 to LP.The imaging was uncanny for a speaker in this price range and could match or better most BS's costing more. I'm not a very articulate reviewer with eloquent discriptive phrases, but the 52's are a lot more articulate than I at describing their sound. On many recordings the 52's seemed to flesh out the music (I'll try to explain that term) making the sound transparent to see into the music, no veiling or looking through a foggy window for example, in other words the 52's never got confused with complex passages that a lot of speakers seem to just mesh into a blender of sloppy soup. How's that for a discriptive phrase (eloquent,no)? The mid range and upper registers aren't supposed to sound this airy and liquid in a $200 a pair of FS's, the best thing to do is invite a friend over with their favorite tunes and give them a whirl with the 52's never informing him you only paid $200 for these, and notice the facial expressions, then tell him (they) what you paid. The imaging as I stated is superb, it was locked in, I tried moving side to side off axis and the image was still excellent. I later hooked these (52's) up to a Crown XLS 1500 using the 709 as pre-pro with the BS41's as surrounds driven with an Onkyo M-282 amp and a ARX A1b monitor on it's side as a CC, every speaker crossed over at 80 Hz to a Epik Legend sub and watched Terminator Salvation on BR. From the opening credits I knew I was in for a treat. I was treated to some jumpy scary moments with sound coming from everywhere, I had the volume turned up more than usual thinking I had to, to get the levels I was used to, (didn't have to). All I can say is there was not a dull moment, I only planned on watching about fifteen minutes of the movie to get a feel for the 52's and 41's in a HT setup, I ended watching the whole movie. I was also surprised how well the A1B paired up with the 52's to portray a convincing 3D front stage, the A1b's planar tweeter seemed to gel very well with the 52's tweet, dialog was clear and precise and front stage very convincing, the A1b is a $150 speaker, so I thought I would keep all speakers in the budget range for the HT setup. One last comment, my wife was a floor up in her candle making shop and she came down and made a statement that she felt like she was in the lobby of a movie theater, that's high praise considering there is only one opening to the upstairs room. If you purchase this system IMO do not skimp on the sub, they deserve all you can afford, the Legend seemed a perfect match with the Pioneers. I plan on using this HT setup for my wife's shop, she will have a nice TV in there and I have a Onkyo SR702 DD receiver to power the all Pioneer setup, I'm thinking another 52 for the center (that may be overkill) to finish off the setup. There you have it, if you are on the fence about these speakers, climb over it. $350-400 for a 5.0 setup and I would partner this setup with a $4-600 subwoofer budget, under a grand for sonic nervana.
Cheers, Jeff