Do we have any Lawyers on here?

[ParadigmDawg]

I have been seriously pursued by a company that wants to open up in the Fort Worth market. I have a good job now and I have only been there for 6 months so I keep telling them I'm not interested plus I have 5 months left on my non-compete.

Monday I agreed to just talk to them so they flew a couple of corporate suits in from AZ.

It turns out that I am interested and they stated that they don't care about the non-compete. I do care because if it ever came to a lawsuit they can just term me and be in the clear but I would be left without a job and a lot of legal expense.

Yesterday we agreed that after their legal team looks at it, they will hold moving into the FTW market until the first of the year if I will take the position. That put me in a more comfortable position as I don't think my former company would pursue me with just a couple of months left on the agreement.

I looked closely at my non-compete today and one thing noted, which may or may not be relevant, is the fact that my "non-compete" lists someone other than me as the employee but it does contain my signature. They forgot to change it out from the employee before me so it states the non-compete is between "Them" and that "employee". It could be taken as my signature means that I agree that she should not dishonor her agreement.

Thoughts?

 

[j_garcia]

Depends on whether that document was intended to cover your company and that role, regardless of who it is, or only that person. That could go either way in court IMO, but the way I read what you said, you would be clear.

I was sort of in the same boat this year when I was offered a position by one of the customers I've been working with. It isn't the first time, but it was the first time the offer was worth it. The contract in question for me does not specify names and covers the company as a whole.

 

[DS-21]

You know, people all the time complain about lawyers, but fact of the matter is it's generally the clients who are the problem.

Forget the legal issues. They don't matter in a case like yours to any decent person.

As a simple moral issue, you left a job believing that you had freely signed a noncompete.

Now, if that noncompete is unreasonable in some way, then that's another issue. Do something to get them to enforce it and then challenge it on its merits, if you wish. There are strict boundaries for reasonableness of noncompetes in most jurisdictions.

 

[Swerd]

For this, I think you should talk to a real lawyer - on the clock.

I wouldn't want advice from some guy on the internet who pretends to be a lawyer, or even worse, some guy who really is a lawyer, but who wastes his time here on AH .

It's always nice to be wanted . I hope it works out.

 

[Swerd]

Forget the legal issues. They don't matter in a case like yours to any decent person.

As a simple moral issue, you left a job believing that you had freely signed a noncompete.

Now, if that noncompete is unreasonable in some way, then that's another issue. Do something to get them to enforce it and then challenge it on its merits, if you wish. There are strict boundaries for reasonableness of noncompetes in most jurisdictions.

I think that's a good point.

The noncompete and the time limit sound like standard employment terms. How bad do you want to alienate your soon-to-be former employer? Do you really need to burn that bridge?

If the guys from Az really want you, they should be willing to wait.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Depends on whether that document was intended to cover your company and that role, regardless of who it is, or only that person. That could go either way in court IMO, but the way I read what you said, you would be clear.

I was sort of in the same boat this year when I was offered a position by one of the customers I've been working with. It isn't the first time, but it was the first time the offer was worth it. The contract in question for me does not specify names and covers the company as a whole.

It could be read either way but I bet at 3 months to term of the agreement plus this little issue, they won't eff with me.

You know, people all the time complain about lawyers, but fact of the matter is it's generally the clients who are the problem.

Forget the legal issues. They don't matter in a case like yours to any decent person.

As a simple moral issue, you left a job believing that you had freely signed a noncompete.

Now, if that noncompete is unreasonable in some way, then that's another issue. Do something to get them to enforce it and then challenge it on its merits, if you wish. There are strict boundaries for reasonableness of noncompetes in most jurisdictions.

I have no idea what you just said but I gave you a "thanks" anyway...

For this, I think you should talk to a real lawyer - on the clock.

I wouldn't want advice from some guy on the internet who pretends to be a lawyer, or even worse, some guy who really is a lawyer, but who wastes his time here on AH .

It's always nice to be wanted . I hope it works out.

Yep, I will hire a lawyer but I also want outside opinions even just to make me feel better as I drink tonight.

We may have discussed this before but have you ever tried the Glenlivet Nadurra 16 year old non-chill-filtered scotch? I'm having one now and it is so good.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I think that's a good point.

The noncompete and the time limit sound like standard employment terms. How bad do you want to alienate your soon-to-be former employer? Do you really need to burn that bridge?

If the guys from Az really want you, they should be willing to wait.

The non-compete is not with the company I am with now. I slightly changed industries, to take this job but I want to go back to what I really do for a living.

 

[Swerd]

The non-compete is not with the company I am with now. I slightly changed industries, to take this job but I want to go back to what I really do for a living.

My instinct would still be the same. If this proposed job change and the non-compete issue with your former employer is in what you really want to work in, you should choose your battles with the long term in mind.

Be nice to everyone you meet on the way up because you never know who you'll run into on the way back down.

 

[j_garcia]

The non-compete is not with the company I am with now. I slightly changed industries, to take this job but I want to go back to what I really do for a living.

My instinct would still be the same. If this proposed job change and the non-compete issue with your former employer is in what you really want to work in, you should choose your battles with the long term in mind.

Be nice to everyone you meet on the way up because you never know who you'll run into on the way back down.

Ahh, that's different. I agree with Swerd.

 

[Swerd]

We may have discussed this before but have you ever tried the Glenlivet Nadurra 16 year old non-chill-filtered scotch? I'm having one now and it is so good.

Must have been someone else. I haven't had scotch in over 20 years. My favorite poisons are Belgian beers and good coffee.

Still, I'm glad you're plotting revenge on your former employer with a good drink in your hand, rather than with a sober head and a cold heart .

 

[j_garcia]

Hey, at least you took them into consideration instead of just doing it.

 

[Alex2507]

Forget the legal issues. They don't matter in a case like yours to any decent person.

I see your underlining and raise you some emboldening.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Must have been someone else. I haven't had scotch in over 20 years. My favorite poisons are Belgian beers and good coffee.

Still, I'm glad you're plotting revenge on your former employer with a good drink in your hand, rather than with a sober head and a cold heart .

LOL... maybe I had to much scotch last night. The entire time we were talking I thought you were Sawz and Highlander combined into one...whew...

 

[Adam]

...maybe I had to much scotch...

Who are you, and what have you done with Greg?!

 

[KEW]

I researched non-competes when I was asked to sign one earlier this year. In Georgia, they changed the law last year so the employee has little recourse other than to adhere to it (isn't it strange how corporations, who are legally people, pull so much more sway than normal people).
My point is that legally you need to fall back to state law.

Also, there may be legal benefit to relocating.
One aspect of non-competes is to prevent you from "stealing" clients from a current employer and take them to your new employer. Depending on your career, relocation could put you in a different customer base making this a moot concern.

 

[GO-NAD!]

For this, I think you should talk to a real lawyer - on the clock.

I wouldn't want advice from some guy on the internet who pretends to be a lawyer....

But what if he stayed in a Holiday Inn last night...?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I researched non-competes when I was asked to sign one earlier this year. In Georgia, they changed the law last year so the employee has little recourse other than to adhere to it (isn't it strange how corporations, who are legally people, pull so much more sway than normal people).
My point is that legally you need to fall back to state law.

Also, there may be legal benefit to relocating.
One aspect of non-competes is to prevent you from "stealing" clients from a current employer and take them to your new employer. Depending on your career, relocation could put you in a different customer base making this a moot concern.

Breaking non-competes is so common in my field, where I live. At one of my jobs, out of 32 sales reps in my area, 29 was still under a non-compete from a former company. I have never seen a company here, pursue it outside of an initial "scare" letter.

The company that I am under the non-compete with now, hired me with a full 12 months left on a non-compete and I gave them the non-compete when I interviewed. How could they break this contract but then hold me liable when they are on the other side of it?

Relocation is not an option or a need. Medical companies are always hiring reps with proven track records and I have always been heavily pursued. I could likely find 3 or 4 different jobs by Tuesday. I just have to pick a company that sells a slightly different product line.

For instance, right now I am in marketing for a hospital. I can still go out and sale medical equipment and it's not against my non-compete. The position I want to take is exactly the same, as what I was doing, with the company I was under the non-compete with.

I have a good job now so I could just stay there 6 more months and then the non-compete will be expired. However, the chance to open a new company, to this market, isn't something that comes around very often and it is a great opportunity so I see it as worth taking some risk.

 

[KEW]

Sound like you are pretty much in the clear, and certainly a good argument that a company that openly violated someone else's non compete shouldn't be able to make a strong case to enforce their own!
The rule of thumb with non competes in GA was they didn't amount to much - until they changed the statutes in November of 2010. Now (if these statutes hold up) they are pretty restrictive. You'll definitely want to check to make sure nothing similar went down in your own state.
Here is an easy to read synopsis of what they did in GA:
Non-Compete Agreements (Georgia)
The first four sentences pretty well cover it.
I'm sure a lot of people here will get blindsided by these changes. Hopefully, no similar changes have been enacted in your state.

On the whole of it, I would definitely go for the start up!

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would just agree with the lawyer comment. You want to talk to your OWN lawyer representing you. Their lawyer rerpesents them, and can say whatever they want, but it won't help you.

You certainly can't hold your former employer as an example of things. That is, they knew they were highering you under a non-compete, but they highered you anyway and YOU (not them) got lucky. They are under no requirement, legally, or otherwise, to not persue you should you go after their customer base in some manner.

I'm not in sales, but the concept is clear enough... You signed a non-compete and it sounds like you fully intend to violate it. If the law is written such that this is illegal, then you should be held liable for breach of contract.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but it does seem that you are fully aware of your own situation, and if you have worries, then your best course of action is a few hundred dollars of legal time for peace of mind.

I know in my signed non-compete I crossed out a portion of it before I was willing to sign it. I run my own A/V business and made them aware of that before I was highered. I do resi-work and they do commercial so out paths do not cross, but if they enter the resi side of A/V, then they would be competing with me and my non-compete would need to be readdressed at that point, but I would not be in the wrong at any point.

Sounds like you know you may be stepping into the wrong in some manner and you should get legal council before you make any significant life decisions.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

On the whole of it, I would definitely go for the start up!

Yep, I think it is worth the risk.

I just found out that a former peer of mine, that also worked at the same place that holds my non-compete, took a job at the same place I am looking at. He took a position in an established market so it was more a lateral move for him.

He has been there a couple of months and I asked him bout his non-compete. He said our former company sent him and the new company and initial scare letter and the new company sent a rebuttal and he never heard anything else.

Watching how it goes for him the next 3 months may prove to be insightful to me. He had 11 months left on his agreement.

Regardless, when the time comes, I will speak to a lawyer.