$6,000 Recommended Two-Channel Stereo System

[gene]

Cliff, Gene, By recommending $4000 in electronics to drive $2000 speakers aren't you going against everything this website stands for? Perhaps the "Be aesthetically pleasing on the eyes and evoke a sense of pride in ownership" got prioritized higher than anything else.

Check again. The amp, Sacd player and turntable come out to around $3k. Power conditioner is optional and useful.

There is no hard rule that you have to spend more on speakers then everything else combined.

The yammie amp is pricey but it's got a meaty amp section and it looks fantastic. Pride of ownership and looks are important in this type of system.

We have a $2k and $1k system in the works now too.

 

[ImcLoud]

Its a nice system for sure... You could do a lot worse...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is no hard rule that you have to spend more on speakers then everything else combined.

Pride of ownership and looks are important in this type of system.

I agree completely. Whatever makes us happy is the important thing, not whatever people say we should do.

$5000 speakers aren't necessarily better than $2000 speakers anyway.

 

[Cliff_is]

I tried to write this article for someone who wasn't always browsing the forums or checking on the latest ID gear. So I went with some more recognizable brands that general consumers would be comfortable with and could be found at a local HiFi shop. I also figured that this type of individual would care about looks and SAF as much as anything else. The alternatives listed allow someone who was interested in really customizing and system to do so easily.

For example, I would bet that many people on the forums would go with the Emotiva combo for $1000 and the Onkyo SACD player for $599. For some people this setup would certainly be better, but for other people the USB portion of the recommended Marantz SACD player is worth the added expense.

My goal was to write it so the general consumer would be happy with the system but provide good alternatives so the Audioholic could customize it to their needs.

 

[khorny]

$6000 !!!

I guess I'm lucky. I got some svs mbs-02 bookshelfs for $399... less than half the already reasonable price. I picked up an old pioneer spec 1 pre amp and spec 2 amp for free both in great condition. I purchased some bad 12 GA wire and connectors. I need to replace all the wiring and clean the amps. For the money though I have this beat big... I think........

 

[Send Margaritas]

I'm curious why Oppo(s) weren't in the recommended options for the SACD players. Is there anything about the units listed that sets them above the Oppo performance level?

 

[gene]

I'm curious why Oppo(s) weren't in the recommended options for the SACD players. Is there anything about the units listed that sets them above the Oppo performance level?

absolutely not. We figured most people setting up a 2CH system wouldn't have a display in that room and it''s necessary to have a display to configure the Oppo. If however you have a display than the Oppo BDP-105 would be the perfect solution.

 

[Send Margaritas]

Thanks. Makes sense. I was curious, since the Oppos seemed to have good audio performance.

 

[GranteedEV]

There is no hard rule that you have to spend more on speakers then everything else combined..

Okay. I just hope the speakers, and room acoustics weren't compromised to make room for a $ 1,000 source.

Yes aesthetics are important, but I hope no one weighs them over the sound itself in a dedicated two channel system. For a lifestyle HT sure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay. I just hope the speakers, and room acoustics weren't compromised to make room for a $ 1,000 source.

Yes aesthetics are important, but I hope no one weighs them over the sound itself in a dedicated two channel system. For a lifestyle HT sure.

I doubt anyone would favor aesthetic over quality. Not even me.

I think the point is that speaker price doesn't always reflect performance. Some $2000 speakers may sound better than some $10,000 speakers. The Phil2 (original version) might be one example.

Thus, we should look at the quality (sound), not the quantity (price).

So if you are 100% happy with your $2,000 speakers, why not spend some big bucks elsewhere if you have the funds and it makes you happy?

 

[Adam]

I'm not much a of music-only guy anymore, but I appreciate seeing recommendations for such a system. Thanks to Cliff and Gene!

I was also surprised by the SACD player recommendation, as Oppo gets so much praise from AH. I'd think that it would have been one of the alternatives.

At first, the speaker wire recommendation made me look twice because of the cost, but those are some nice pre-made cables. $55 for interconnects, though? That seems high to me.

...you can use a smaller tower or bookshelf with a sub and sound like you have a couple monster towers firing...

That statement speaks to me because it was my experience when I was auditioning speakers. I ended up buying $600/pair NHT 1.5s with a $700 sub instead of $1300/pair NHT 2.5s (which are 1.5s with added woofers) because they sounded the same to me when properly blended, and I liked the idea that the sub could also handle bass for my other speakers when watching movies. Granted, that takes my shopping experience out of the dedicated two-channel arena, but my opinion on 2.1 versus 2.0 was based on listening to music when I was shopping.

------------

Regarding form versus function, I want both. I really (really) crave a set of beautiful tube amps. Will they sound better? I'm guessing no...but to have a pair of quality-built amps that glow warmly when I'm relaxing to some music - priceless. Well, unfortunately, pricey. Bang-for-the-buck is different for different people, because the "bang" means different things. For example, McDonald's is going to crush a fine dining restaurant in terms of calories/dollar, but that's not what everyone is after.

 

[GranteedEV]

I doubt anyone would favor aesthetic over quality. Not even me.

I think the point is that speaker price doesn't always reflect performance. Some $2000 speakers may sound better than some $10,000 speakers. The Phil2 (original version) might be one example.

Thus, we should look at the quality (sound), not the quantity (price).

So if you are 100% happy with your $2,000 speakers, why not spend some big bucks elsewhere if you have the funds and it makes you happy?

I don't disagree.

But the first listed alternative for the Martin Logans was the Salk Songtower. In Audioholics' review of the Salk HT2-TL the impression I cMe away with was that the difference in price was well justified.

I can't help but imagine a regular old well mastered CD on a 150 dollar player on HT2-TLs would sound better than the equivalsnt SACD on a 1000 dollar player on Song towers.

Sure there's no set rule for how much to spend on x component but give
n a budget that would allow HT2-TLs to be squeezed in while still allowing perfectly fine electronics....

 

[Adam]

...I cMe away with...

That pesky Caps Lock. So close to the "A" key.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But the first listed alternative for the Martin Logans was the Salk Songtower. In Audioholics' review of the Salk HT2-TL the impression I came away with was that the difference in price was well justified.

Well, that's just one opinion.

Some may feel the difference is insignificant. Some may feel the Martin Logan is every bit as good as the Salk.

It just depends on the consumer.

 

[GranteedEV]

Well, that's just one opinion.

Some may feel the difference is insignificant. Some may feel the Martin Logan is every bit as good as the Salk.

It just depends on the consumer.

That's a bit of a cop-out.... why have a system recommendation at all if you're expecting the consumer to be unable or unbothered to strive for the best they can afford. You may as well tell them to get Infinity P363s and leave it at that.

I'm not trying to insult Cliff's suggestions. I'm sure it'll result in a great sounding system. But I can't help but feel that it's a bit pretentious with lots of focus on "Appear Audiophile". Kind of like how Linkwitz had to double the price of the Orions and switch to Bryston gear from ATI. Like there's something inherently wrong with getting the best dollar for dollar performance if it doesn't please the easily biased. SACDs are cool. Integrated amps are nice. But Speakers, Bass Trapping, diffusion panels, room acoustics etc are a big part of the sound. I don't really see how they amount to a fixed 35% of the budget. I can imagine people inferring that they're 35% of the sound.

 

[Irvrobinson]

But I can't help but feel that it's a bit pretentious with lots of focus on "Appear Audiophile". Kind of like how Linkwitz had to double the price of the Orions and switch to Bryston gear from ATI.

That is not SL's story. My understanding is that the Orion 4 is priced at $14,750 because:

- To make the Orion more of a commercial product he needed to switch from an H-frame to a W-frame, which is much more expensive to manufacture, to quell transmitted forces from the woofers.

- To give the Orion more bass output he switched to new Seas woofers, which are more expensive.

- Wood Artistry wasn't making sufficient margins on the fully assembled Orion 3s to be an on-going business, and this was causing reoccurring price increases. Even the 3s were pushing $11K, albeit with the ATI amp. To make a real business of the Orion 4 Wood Artistry needed higher gross margins.

- The Orion 4 woofers needed more power than the ATI 6012 could provide, which complicated up the amplification solution, and driving a different and more expensive path anyway.

- The market for esoteric $15K speakers intended for music, and that need out-in-the-room placement, is dominated by audiophiles, and they like to choose their amps and cables. Since the Orion 4 is being demo'd at audiophile shows it is only natural that Wood Artistry choose amplifiers more acceptable to the target audience, who probably consider ATI to be home theater stuff.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That pesky Caps Lock. So close to the "A" key.

We call that "fat fingers" around here...

 

[Adam]

We call that "fat fingers" around here...

We just call them "fingers" here in the States...

 

[Cliff_is]

That's a bit of a cop-out.... why have a system recommendation at all if you're expecting the consumer to be unable or unbothered to strive for the best they can afford. You may as well tell them to get Infinity P363s and leave it at that.

I'm not trying to insult Cliff's suggestions. I'm sure it'll result in a great sounding system. But I can't help but feel that it's a bit pretentious with lots of focus on "Appear Audiophile". Kind of like how Linkwitz had to double the price of the Orions and switch to Bryston gear from ATI. Like there's something inherently wrong with getting the best dollar for dollar performance if it doesn't please the easily biased. SACDs are cool. Integrated amps are nice. But Speakers, Bass Trapping, diffusion panels, room acoustics etc are a big part of the sound. I don't really see how they amount to a fixed 35% of the budget. I can imagine people inferring that they're 35% of the sound.

Well, I am very offended...

I think this is a great discussion of what is most important in a sound system and how the money should be split up.

$1799 fort he integrated amp was a little steep for my taste but it was/is on sale for $1299, which is very reasonable for the piece of gear. I was at a client's home today that had an integrated amp from about 20 years ago that we hooked up SONOS to and now it has more streaming capabilities than a new AVR. We all know that amps can last a long time. Personally, I might go the Emo route. I think you will like some of the other recommended systems coming down the line.

The only part that I would seriously question is the SACD player, but I wanted to make sure the recommended unit could play anything a consumer might throw at it. That includes digital audio, but most SACD players don't have a USB input. Also, we are relying on the DACs in the source. An Oppo would have been great but I couldn't count on a display being present. I did take a jump down from the $1700 SACD player that Yamaha recommends with the amp.

As far as looks, you might be surprised at what some people want. Well, maybe not, just look at the esoteric audio market.

 

[haraldo]

Guys;

Cliff is a pro installer and I've asked him to assemble a bunch of new recommended systems for the site using what is available via the Estore and/or established ID brands, making it as easy as possible to purchase everything from one or two sources. But we also only recommend equipment we've either reviewed or heard in person so sometimes the options can be a bit limited.

I will have him do a couple of two-channel sub satellite systems as well. The Studio series from Def tech are a solid option and a PSB satellite / sub system may be another good one.

I shy away from some of the less known ID companies not so much b/c their product may or may not be good but b/c some of them don't have an established track record yet and we don't want a Shifter surprise to happen to any of our readers

Be careful with this, I was quite surprised with this post, it merely looks like a hidden ad from the AH store, you claim your independence Gene but posts like this with recommendations and direct link to th AH shop can easily bring questions to the AH independency, at least it's what I think.

When this is said and done I think I would look to other components for a two channel system.
I would probably pick a Lyngdorf, Electrocompaniet, Densen or Hegel amp, Squeezebox touch (if you can still get hold of it), Benchmark DAC1 and Audio Physic or System audio speakers, no subwoofer

There are lots of different products in Europe compared to USA and price profiles are different, so probably that explians why for instance Danish speakers (System Audio, Dynavector, Dynaudio) are so popular over here but expensive in US

It's a good initiative with recommended components but it probably needs even more effort, some people will be happy with bookshelf speakers, some need suds, some need floorstanding full range speakers... depending on need and available space and where the system goes. I would not bring in subs for a $6k system as I believe it will give you much less available money for speakers so it will potentially be too many compromises, perhaps.....