ATI AT2000 amps

[Docks]

I see your point, and that's one reason why I was always so impressed by the Levinson 334. 801kVA for 125w/8-ohms *per channel*, and that sort of engineering is why it could realistically double down to 2 ohm loads. But in the end the ATI, which is designed to a lower standard, sounds just as good on my current speakers as the Levinsons did. Better, perhaps, due to lower audible noise and about 3db more power headroom into 4 ohms. Few speakers present the obnoxious load the Legacy Focus did, that had me hunting for such a robust amp, no less for passive bi-amping.

Only a small percentage of amplifiers are ever independently tested, and only a small percentage of those tested don't meet their specs. Most exceed them, especially for a company like ATI, run by a zealot with a reputation he's proud of. Are you really, Docks, going to restrict yourself to amps that have been independently bench-tested? If an AT2002 was tested and got accolades, would you trust that an AT3002 was similarly good?

A good review of one of their products with solid results on the bench would be nice. The XPA1 although a good amp does not meet its THD specs. I also want to see the AT3002s THD at lower power usage since I don't drive my speakers at 200W all day long. It sort of blows me away that on such an objective site people are blindly buying and recommending equipment based on subjective results.
I really enjoy AH because its so objective, justifications are made with measurements and charts. I'm by no way an ATI hater, I'm sure they make fantastic amplifiers (hence me considering one). That said if I'm going to spend upto 3 grand on an amp(s), I'm going to make sure that I've done my homework. The next step to these subjective ATI reviews is "sweeter highs, and warm mids" - Common guys, this isn't audiogon.

 

[Irvrobinson]

A good review of one of their products with solid results on the bench would be nice. The XPA1 although a good amp does not meet its THD specs. I also want to see the AT3002s THD at lower power usage since I don't drive my speakers at 200W all day long. It sort of blows me away that on such an objective site people are blindly buying and recommending equipment based on subjective results.
I really enjoy AH because its so objective, justifications are made with measurements and charts. I'm by no way an ATI hater, I'm sure they make fantastic amplifiers (hence me considering one). That said if I'm going to spend upto 3 grand on an amp(s), I'm going to make sure that I've done my homework. The next step to these subjective ATI reviews is "sweeter highs, and warm mids" - Common guys, this isn't audiogon.

Where did you see a review showing that the XPA-1 doesn't meet its THD specs?

Like I said before, if we restricted ourselves to only buying what is bench tested the market would be too restricted. Also, since I don't believe all amps sound the same I do like to listen first. And pop the lid and look at how it's made and what it's made of.

Bench testing is not a panacea. There are lots of ways to run some tests, and the results depend a lot on the quality of the test equipment, the test set up quality, and the skill of the test tech. Unless you're qualified to assess all of these conditions (most of us aren't), a bench test is just a data point. An important one for sure, but just because an amp meets its THD spec doesn't make it a great amp.

For example, one thing I like to test myself is whether or not the amp ever makes an unwanted sound through the speakers. Any pops or other noises are completely unacceptable to me. Most test reports don't mention stuff like that.

 

[Docks]

XPA 1 Bench
Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblock Power Amplifier - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Sure your tests are nice, and yes a listening test or trial should be done prior purchasing these amplifiers they still dont determine true power output, thd or other very importent specs.

You can defend yourself all you like - at the end of the day you bought your amp on subjective results and a companies provided specifications. I'm fine if its ok with you but I really want objective results especially prior to reccomending this to other people.

Where did you see a review showing that the XPA-1 doesn't meet its THD specs?

Like I said before, if we restricted ourselves to only buying what is bench tested the market would be too restricted. Also, since I don't believe all amps sound the same I do like to listen first. And pop the lid and look at how it's made and what it's made of.

Bench testing is not a panacea. There are lots of ways to run some tests, and the results depend a lot on the quality of the test equipment, the test set up quality, and the skill of the test tech. Unless you're qualified to assess all of these conditions (most of us aren't), a bench test is just a data point. An important one for sure, but just because an amp meets its THD spec doesn't make it a great amp.

For example, one thing I like to test myself is whether or not the amp ever makes an unwanted sound through the speakers. Any pops or other noises are completely unacceptable to me. Most test reports don't mention stuff like that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A good review of one of their products with solid results on the bench would be nice. The XPA1 although a good amp does not meet its THD specs. I also want to see the AT3002s THD at lower power usage since I don't drive my speakers at 200W all day long. It sort of blows me away that on such an objective site people are blindly buying and recommending equipment based on subjective results.
I really enjoy AH because its so objective, justifications are made with measurements and charts. I'm by no way an ATI hater, I'm sure they make fantastic amplifiers (hence me considering one). That said if I'm going to spend upto 3 grand on an amp(s), I'm going to make sure that I've done my homework. The next step to these subjective ATI reviews is "sweeter highs, and warm mids" - Common guys, this isn't audiogon.

I think the main customers of ATI are Harman International, Outlaw Audio, and Cary Audio, Theta, B&K, and half a dozen companies undisclosed. They are practically OEM for other well-known brands. And as long as they are making huge profits to keep their companies happy for over 30 years, I don't think ATI will ever care about sending their amps to Stereophile for review.

If specs from HTM, Stereophile, etc, are that important to you, I recommend looking into amps from Parasound, Adcom, etc.

 

[Docks]

Again, this is making assumptions.

I think the main customers of ATI are Harman International, Outlaw Audio, and Cary Audio, Theta, B&K, and half a dozen companies undisclosed. They are practically OEM for other well-known brands. And as long as they are making huge profits to keep their companies happy for over 30 years, I don't think ATI will ever care about sending their amps to Stereophile for review.

If specs from HTM, Stereophile, etc, are that important to you, I recommend looking into amps from Parasound, Adcom, etc.

 

[fuzz092888]

Again, this is making assumptions.

If you listen to ADTG long enough you'll see it far more than assumption that they OEM for quite a few different customers. Even without that information, if you pop a few lids on many of those amps, you see way to many similarities to expect that there wasn't at least a little sharing going on in some possible way.

You call it an assumption, I call it a pretty well educated guess supported by looking inside amps, and from people who have been to ATI and seen some of these other brands on their benches. I'm sure ADTG will provide more on that last bit.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see one bench tested as well......because I would, but at the same time not seeing one bench tested wouldn't hold me back from purchasing one. Especially not after how happy I am with my outlaw amp.

YMMV

 

[Docks]

I agree that ATI likely sources amps to several companies, proof would be nice. It doesn't really matter to much to me if they do or not anyways. I ultimately was identifying the lack of measurements for ATI amps as I was also considering one, that's all. It also makes me curious that ATI owners are so quick to defend their own equipment.

If you listen to ADTG long enough you'll see it far more than assumption that they OEM for quite a few different customers. Even without that information, if you pop a few lids on many of those amps, you see way to many similarities to expect that there wasn't at least a little sharing going on in some possible way.

You call it an assumption, I call it a pretty well educated guess supported by looking inside amps, and from people who have been to ATI and seen some of these other brands on their benches. I'm sure ADTG will provide more on that last bit.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see one bench tested as well......because I would, but at the same time not seeing one bench tested wouldn't hold me back from purchasing one. Especially not after how happy I am with my outlaw amp.

YMMV

 

[fuzz092888]

Proof is a moot point for the most part. Odds are we'll never know definitively because of the nondiscolure agreements. No matter what anyone says we'll likely never get any official statements. If you want to nit pick, even if an anonymous employee stepped forward and spilled the beans. Those beans would still just be hearsay with no proof.

If you want measurements I really only see two avenues to get them. Either start lobbying hard for someone to send one in to AH or buy one yourself and send it in. I mean, they retain their value like crazy so its not like you'd lose much, or anything if you catch a break.

Hey, if I had one I'd send it in, in a heartbeat.

 

[Docks]

You should read your own quote about skepticism. It's really disappointing to have so much hype over something we have no bench test on. What about the avenue where someone else said "Hey why hasn't there been a bench tested ATI?" Do you trust the MPG rating on your cars sticker? What conditions was it tested under?
I'm sure the ATI measures good, I wanted to see if it would measure better than something like an XPA-1.

Proof is a moot point for the most part. Odds are we'll never know definitively because of the nondiscolure agreements. No matter what anyone says we'll likely never get any official statements. If you want to nit pick, even if an anonymous employee stepped forward and spilled the beans. Those beans would still just be hearsay with no proof.

If you want measurements I really only see two avenues to get them. Either start lobbying hard for someone to send one in to AH or buy one yourself and send it in. I mean, they retain their value like crazy so its not like you'd lose much, or anything if you catch a break.

Hey, if I had one I'd send it in, in a heartbeat.

 

[fuzz092888]

I started typing a big response and then I remembered. I don't really care.

Hey, if you think you know me well enough to "call me out" on a quote I have in my sig, then power to you. You just let me know you're not capable of having a discussion, nor are probably worth it

Peace out girl scout. Good luck with the amp search.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just call ATI (323) 278-0001.

I just talked to one of their sales rep. I told him I was interested and was doing some research.

I asked him if ATI makes amps for Lexicon, JBL, Mark Levinson, Outlaw, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, and B&K.

He said, "I can confirm all those names. We make amps for them. But I can't comment on Mark Levinson."

He was very nice and polite. I didn't want to press him.

He continued, "Our name should be Amps Are Us because we make amps for most high end amp companies in North America".

So just call ATI and ask if they make amps for Lexicon, JBL, Outlaw, Cary, Theta, & B&K.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It also makes me curious that ATI owners are so quick to defend their own equipment.

I'm sure Fuzz, Irv, and I couldn't care less which amps anyone buys.

Most people know that I think all amps sound the same. Most would disagree with me, but it's all good. We cool.

Emotiva, Crown, ATI, Outlaw, Parasound, Adcom, etc, they're all good to me.

But it is interesting how ATI opening says on the phone and in writing that they make amps for many companies in America. I mean can anyone name a single other company that makes amps for anyone else?

What does that mean? Nothing. Just very peculiar to me.

 

[slipperybidness]

I'm sure Fuzz, Irv, and I couldn't care less which amps anyone buys.

Most people know that I think all amps sound the same. Most would disagree with me, but it's all good. We cool.

Emotiva, Crown, ATI, Outlaw, Parasound, Adcom, etc, they're all good to me.

But it is interesting how ATI opening says on the phone and in writing that they make amps for many companies in America. I mean can anyone name a single other company that makes amps for anyone else?

What does that mean? Nothing. Just very peculiar to me.

I'm sure there are others. Just not as well-known info floating around out there.

Electronics, batteries, chemicals, food, are all made in 1 factory and rebadged a lot more than anyone would suspect.

 

[Glashub]

I'm the guy who went to the ATI factory here in LA to pick up my 2007. They had a white board with the names AcuDef posted on it and the number of units to be built under each name. I met the guys whop built the amps. They take such pride in thier work. It's old school...rows and rows of work benches where men occupying work stations assemble by hand.

If you call Jeff there I bet you'll get a better price than through the website.

 

[Docks]

I'm the guy who went to the ATI factory here in LA to pick up my 2007. They had a white board with the names AcuDef posted on it and the number of units to be built under each name. I met the guys whop built the amps. They take such pride in thier work. It's old school...rows and rows of work benches where men occupying work stations assemble by hand.

If you call Jeff there I bet you'll get a better price than through the website.

Does this Jeff guy have an email address? Maybe I should fire him off a message.

 

[Glashub]

Yep. But I can't post it or pm it until I have 5 posts. Bear with me now.

 

[Glashub]

Ati amps....

 

[Glashub]

are really....

 

[Glashub]

good...even though all amps sound the same.

 

[Glashub]

jeff(at)ati-amp.com