Last call for advice - articulate music dual subs

[KEW]

I am finally ready to order for ultimate/final subs (music).
I'd like to keep the price around $2000 or less for the pair. I can spend more if needed, but I don't know my objectives require more. I am intent on a pair because I want the response as smooth as possible before adding EQ.

For music-only and with boundary effects in a <2400 Cu Ft treated room, I am comfortable with a 25 Hz extension and 95dB max output. - I'm nowhere near challenging the state of the art for extension or output and am not looking for anything exotic in finish. IOW, at this point, most good $600 subs can do the job.
However, these subs will be paired with my Focal Solo6Be's - the most articulate speakers I have heard. Getting the best articulation available is my objective!

Unfortunately, this is an attribute that is not consistently addressed in reviews, and when it is, it isn't quantified to allow comparisons between different subs. I suppose the decay plots may be a bit useful, but don't think it is central to articulation. An impulse response may be useful, but I haven't noticed that in the reviews I have read.

So, I am hoping those of you who have listened to many subs can help me with this.

Thanks for your help!

Kurt

 

[pbc]

I am finally ready to order for ultimate/final subs (music).
I'd like to keep the price around $2000 or less for the pair. I can spend more if needed, but I don't know my objectives require more. I am intent on a pair because I want the response as smooth as possible before adding EQ.

For music-only and with boundary effects in a <2400 Cu Ft treated room, I am comfortable with a 25 Hz extension and 95dB max output. - I'm nowhere near challenging the state of the art for extension or output and am not looking for anything exotic in finish. IOW, at this point, most good $600 subs can do the job.
However, these subs will be paired with my Focal Solo6Be's - the most articulate speakers I have heard. Getting the best articulation available is my objective!

Unfortunately, this is an attribute that is not consistently addressed in reviews, and when it is, it isn't quantified to allow comparisons between different subs. I suppose the decay plots may be a bit useful, but don't think it is central to articulation. An impulse response may be useful, but I haven't noticed that in the reviews I have read.

So, I am hoping those of you who have listened to many subs can help me with this.

Thanks for your help!

Kurt

The SB13 would be great as well, but well above the stated price range.

I've heard a lot of good things about the SQ of ULS-15's, which would come in around $2k plus shipping. Also has an impressively built driver.

Epik Empires have also been said to have great SQ (likely due to the strong mid-bass performance of those subs).

Unfortunately I have not heard either.

 

[pbc]

Or if you're really adventurous ... a pair of these ...

TC Sounds LMS-R 15" DVC Subwoofer 293-662

placed into a pair of these ...

Dayton Audio SWC3-VI 3.0 ft³ Subwoofer Cabinet Black Vinyl 302-847

(maybe add some poly, add a couple 1" dowels for better bracing)

powered by one (or 2) of these ...

Behringer NU3000DSP iNUKE 3000 Watt Power Amplifier w/DSP 248-6706

Might have to mod the fan to get the noise down though.

We can help you EQ.

 

[pbc]

In all seriousness, I can't think of many other subs that will fit the dual in $2k range. PowersoundAudio just came out with their XS15's (looks like a potentially great option if you don't mind the look). JimW is a big fan of the Rumba 12 subwoofer which would come in well under budget, though I'd also take a hard look at the SB12 NSD's that Ricci seemed to really like in that price range. Not sure which would be better, and unlikely that the same person will ever hear both in the same room unfortunately.

 

[Steve81]

I'd look real hard at the Rythmik F12 and F15 as well. They have a fantastic reputation for music reproduction.

Regarding the Rumba, one important factor to consider is that there is no grill for it.

 

[FirstReflection]

Taking everything into account, I have to lean my recommendation towards a pair of Rythmik F12.

They fit your budget (even the F12SE gloss black - though just barely ), a pair will handle 2400 cubic feet nicely. They're VERY articulate. Not monsters for 20Hz output, but they can still send out a few, nice tingles when called for.

Bottom line, they fit your needs to a "T"

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you don't mind finish, Imo Power Sound Audio 15 XS or XV subs is the way to go
F15 is great option, but over your budget

I think I wont recommend dual Epic subs...

Use the rest for measuring tools and acoustic treatments

 

[Steve81]

An impulse response may be useful, but I haven't noticed that in the reviews I have read.

FWIW, Ricci does post impulse response at data-bass.com

The SVS SB12 for example.
http://www.data-bass.com/images/measurements/86/E sb12nsd impulse.jpg

 

[Steve81]

F15 is great option, but over your budget

FYI, they're 1,794.00 plus 180 shipping for a pair. Note, this isn't the HP, and the finishes are matte black or black oak vinyl.

 

[theJman]

PowersoundAudio just came out with their XS15's (looks like a potentially great option if you don't mind the look). JimW is a big fan of the Rumba 12 subwoofer which would come in well under budget, though I'd also take a hard look at the SB12 NSD's that Ricci seemed to really like in that price range.

The Rumba 12 is indeed a favorite of mine, but for a music only system I'd have to be honest and say it wouldn't be my first choice. It's not that it can't do music well, but it seems to be designed more for HT then music IMHO.

The XS15 has surprised me with how articulate it is. I assumed it too would be geared towards HT, but it handles music pretty darn well.

Want to consider a dark horse in this race? Look into the Atlantic Technology 444 SB. That will be the next unit I review -- I'm listening to it right now -- and it turns out to be be one helluva nice sub. I could definitely see myself using it for music.

For Rythmik, I'd suggest the F12G instead. That's probably the more music of the two.

 

[pbc]

Excited to see how PSA does. Great pricing for what you seemingly get. Did you get a chance to see the woofer?

Forgot about the Rythmiks, great choices as well.

As for the Epik, they have been awfully quiet of late and I've been more hesitant to recco them until they get their phone issues worked out. . But dual Empires may have fit the bill nicely.

 

[theJman]

Excited to see how PSA does. Great pricing for what you seemingly get. Did you get a chance to see the woofer?

See it? I have an XS15 sitting about 10 feet from me at this very moment. Once I finish my review of the Atlantic Technology sub I'll be evaluating the PSA sub.

 

[pbc]

Just the driver...no box.

 

[KEW]

If you don't mind finish, Imo Power Sound Audio 15 XS or XV subs is the way to go

These do look like a better deal for what they do and I love that they are US made. Aside from price, is there something that makes these superior to other 15" sealed or ported subs? (remember, output and extension are not my objective at this point)

F15 is great option, but over your budget

Would an F15 offer articulation over the F12G?

 

[Steve81]

Would an F15 offer articulation over the F12G?

I don't think it unreasonable to expect that from a technical aspect, the F15 would deliver output with less distortion and compression than the smaller and less efficient F12. However, given that you're planning on running a pair of subwoofers in a medium sized room at more moderate levels, I'd expect either would do the job quite well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, I think Rythmik subs are very musical. I think it's because of the great Q-value. On the Rythmik site, it says the D15SE has a Q of 0.3 (high damping setting). Other Rythmik models may be also, but I never looked.

I think another sub that has great Q value are some of the HSU subs. I think they also advertised 0.3 value.

 

[theJman]

Would an F15 offer articulation over the F12G?

Were it me, I would probably go for a pair of F12G's for music in a modest sized room. Assuming you aren't referring to electronic or pipe organ, they should do quite well.

 

[Tomorrow]

Hi Kew.

I may be dead wrong here (seriously), but it is my experience that (in general) smaller subs in a lineup will be more articulate than the larger ones (lesser vs. greater mass to move). That has been the case for me, even with the larger subs with beefier amps. As an example, I've had a lot of subs in my place, including 8" and 12" Hsu's...8" and 10" Aperions. The smaller subs worked better for me in articulating the bass. I ultimately based my selected sub uses on room size and spl's needed. I would argue that bigger is not necessarily better for your stated needs.

That said, there certainly is a good deal of difference between brands. Getting the measurements you mention is virtually an impossible task, unfortunately. As stated by others, Rythmik always gets good reviews from music/2-channel folks. I would suggest a little different path for you to try. Aperion makes some pretty darn good products, including their subwoofers. The main reason for trying them...free shipping to and from you if you don't like the subs. I use a 10" Bravus 10D in my 2-channel room (~1,000 cu. ft.) and it blends beautifully with my Nates Audio T5's (extremely articulate). I would guess that two of those would do just fine in your setup. If not...ship 'em back. The 12D's might be fine for your application as well. They're still under your budget.

Here is Andrew Robinson's review of the 10D. (Note that the amps are now 500w...he reviewed the previous model that I have.) Aperion Audio Bravus II 10D Subwoofer Reviewed

Here is the Aperion site info on the 12DII...900 bucks each. Bravus IIa 12D Powered Subwoofer - Bravus Family - Speakers By Family - Aperion Audio

So you might want to try the Aperions first. If they don't rock your boat, it costs you nothing. Rythmiks are out there still waiting for you.

Best of luck.

PS: I use a couple of SVS PB12+'s in my HT room. Those are definitely not a sub for your application.

 

[Steve81]

I may be dead wrong here (seriously), but it is my experience that (in general) smaller subs in a lineup will be more articulate than the larger ones (lesser vs. greater mass to move).

Data-Bass

#6

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It doesn't matter if the sub is 10", 12", 15", or 18". What matters is the quality of the sub and power compression and dynamic output of the sub. 18" can be just as "musical" as 10" subs and vice versa. Some 18" subs are not as musical, and some 10" subs are not as musical.