3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I just found a brand new, in box Pioneer 112D turntable for $40.

Pioneer PL-112D Owners Manual, Service Manual, Schematics, Free Download | Vinyl Engine

Haven't hooked it up yet, but interested in what a 30 something year old table sounds like just out of box :)

Just need to find some LPs I'm not worried about to test and ensure everything's good with.

Vinyl isn't dead man, never will be. I listen to thrash metal... one of the most heart grinding, sped up, bone crushing genres of music there ever will be...

Last show I went to, I picked up 3 vinyls from the band Razor's merch booth. If these guys still have a vinyl market... you know it's not going anywhere.

Dam nice find!! Before plugging it in, check to make the belt is good and that the platter spins freely.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Dam nice find!! Before plugging it in, check to make the belt is good and that the platter spins freely.
I like those chrome selector switches. They just don't make em like that anymore.
 
T

Trev

Audioholic
Dam nice find!! Before plugging it in, check to make the belt is good and that the platter spins freely.
The only thing with it... it came in hard foam packaging... so there's a fracture in the plastic cover in the back next to a hinge. :/

Still though... old school Pioneer should be neat to have a go at.

Staying on topic though... I remember bashing old formats. A buddy of mine collects Laser Discs. Doesn't own a blu-ray player or any decent setup for quality or high definition, but he's got a load of old laser discs running on an HDTV with Cerwins. At the time, I'd been bashing it mostly because blu-ray just came out... so I was over the top nuts about it.

I'd tell him... man... before you tool around with that, you should get your quality sorted. Get a BR and better TV. In the end, ... you know what - I bet he's having a blast... and it's a sweet *** collection, especially some old Criterion stuff. I can't scoff at that.

To each their own.... but dear god, I'm cool with leaving VHS and anything you have to rewind behind.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
This theory is largely bunk.

In the US a percentage of reground vinyl was just about universal.

On the whole European classical pressings were much better than American ones. After coming to North America I paid a premium for European pressings.

Pop pressings were always inferior, but they cost less.

In the oil crisis of 1974, a large amount of reground vinyl got into pretty much all pressings. I have recordings from that era, that still continue to extrude chunks of labels!

There were howls of protest in Gramophone and this era was fortunately short lived, however there was a significant price rise for classical LPs.

Actually at the time of introduction of the CD, I think record pressing quality actually increased, as the companies wanted to show case their digital recordings.

At first CDs cost more than LPs, but not for long. CD production is much cheaper than LP and much less problem prone. I think during the crossover period, pressing plants did lower vinyl quality in a fruitless attempt to compete with the CD

In the classical arena the CD is a better quality product than the LP, as we don't have the dynamic range compression that bedevils the pop scene.

Also CD playing times are longer and far more works canbbb play without a side change. For instance most symphonies fit on a CD with a bonus fill. On the other hand most symphonies only just fit on an LP with a side change. And then if the finale was forte, it was compromised by the decreased quality of the inside grooves.

So at least in the classical arena the LP quickly faded and there is no desire to bring it back.

If all CDs could be properly mastered there really is no need to make anymore LPs.

In any event I note that purchasers of new vinyl pressings, pay a significant premium to indulge their passion, and are paying almost twice as much as I generally pay for CDs, and they have a shorter playing time.

Quite honestly I find the persistence of the LP puzzling, with absolutely no technical justification. The noise war of CD is not justification but stupidity.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Quite honestly I find the persistence of the LP puzzling, with absolutely no technical justification. The noise war of CD is not justification but stupidity.
Your noise war comment is only true for the genre of music that you listen too. Your arguement quickly falls apart when you move away from classical music.

People who still play vinyl do it for the involvement it brings. Its a personal thing.


BTW, I never took much stock in that conspiracy theory about vinyl. I posted it for entertainment sakes.
 
T

Time_Stand_Stil

Junior Audioholic
TLS Guy,

THEN DO NOT BOTHER TO BUY ANY VINYL RECORDS OR PHONOGRAPHIC PLAYERS!

Nobody is holding a damn gun to your head.

You don't get it, FINE! that is your problem not mine or any other vinyl lover's ok?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
TLS Guy,

THEN DO NOT BOTHER TO BUY ANY VINYL RECORDS OR PHONOGRAPHIC PLAYERS!

Nobody is holding a damn gun to your head.

You don't get it, FINE! that is your problem not mine or any other vinyl lover's ok?
I don't as a rule. I have a huge collection of LPs acquired over 35 years before the digital era. I have very nice equipment to play them on.



I have occasionally bought used LPs but more often than not they are a disappointment, as they have not been cared for as I have cared for my collection.

Much as I love the nostalgia of that era, I'm objective enough to know a technically superior format when I see it.
 
L

Lordhumungus

Audioholic
I don't as a rule. I have a huge collection of LPs acquired over 35 years before the digital era. I have very nice equipment to play them on.



I have occasionally bought used LPs but more often than not they are a disappointment, as they have not been cared for as I have cared for my collection.

Much as I love the nostalgia of that era, I'm objective enough to know a technically superior format when I see it.
The format itself may be superior, but that doesn't really tell enough of the story to come to a conclusion. I have only recently gotten into vinyl (I managed to hold off for many years as I am a collector by nature and I knew it would be dangerous) and what I have learned so far is there are many albums that sound better on vinyl. Whether or not the format is superior is totally irrelevant as the only way to hear the superior version is via vinyl (or I suppose via ripping it to a PC if you are so inclined). I am also grateful that vinyl has gotten me back in touch with the personal side of finding and listening to music. With some 40,000 tracks on my computer, I had almost forgotten the experience of discovering something new and interesting based on the vibe it was putting out into the world.

On a side note, your studio is quite a sight to behold and frankly makes my head spin looking at it because there are so many interesting gadgets in there that I don't have access to or that were before my time. Very neat stuff!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The format itself may be superior, but that doesn't really tell enough of the story to come to a conclusion. I have only recently gotten into vinyl (I managed to hold off for many years as I am a collector by nature and I knew it would be dangerous) and what I have learned so far is there are many albums that sound better on vinyl. Whether or not the format is superior is totally irrelevant as the only way to hear the superior version is via vinyl (or I suppose via ripping it to a PC if you are so inclined). I am also grateful that vinyl has gotten me back in touch with the personal side of finding and listening to music. With some 40,000 tracks on my computer, I had almost forgotten the experience of discovering something new and interesting based on the vibe it was putting out into the world.

On a side note, your studio is quite a sight to behold and frankly makes my head spin looking at it because there are so many interesting gadgets in there that I don't have access to or that were before my time. Very neat stuff!
Thank you for your kid comments. There is some unusual gear in there.

The complete Decca ffss collection on the Garrard 301 is very unusual. It is the only one on the vinyl engine.

The Decca ffss pro arm I bought on eBay, as when I bought the ffss standard arm back in 1966 I think, the pro arm had not come out. I bought the ffss MK II head at that time also. The Decca brush and lift date from that time also. The Decca lift is not required with the pro arm as it has a lift. I bought the Decca ffss H4E in 1971. After that purchase, I had the MK II head converted to a 78 head by Decca.

The Auriol lift which is very rare came up on eBay. I restored it and fitted it, as you can set it to fall very slowly, which is useful when archiving 78 discs.

So everything has its purpose.

I now have my father's old Ortofon moving coil cartridge from the 60's.



He was an Ortofon guy and I was Decca. To each his own. I think I will fit it on the SME improved, soon as I have a slot on moving coil adapter it for the Quad 34 pre amp. You just remove the MM adapter and replace it with the moving coil. Then I can compare the Decca and Ortofon again.

Both of those were the considered the two best reference cartridges in there day.

I also have a Decca gold MK VI shown mounted in an SME MK III carrying arm.



These SME adapters to mount the Decca ffss heads on the SME series I and II arms are extremely rare.



The Decca collection is likely the most extensive in the world. I have never seen so many of the Decca ffss items in one place in any other photographs on the Net.

The fact that it is mounted round a Garrard 301 is icing on the cake, as the Decca ffss were pretty much inseparable at the time as far as I can remember.

So this studio is an unusual mix of the modern and functional museum of the state of the art from what is now quite a long time ago. It frequently fascinated visitors as to how close the quality is to modern media.

As far as some LPs being better than the equivalent CD, that is not usually my experience. Some you would be hard pressed to tell the difference I agree.

The only situation that comes to mind in which I go to the LP rather than the CD set is the fine Kertesz Dvorak symphony collection. For some reason the remastering to CD is not optimal.

I'm glad that for the vast majority of my LPs I'm the original owner.

I big collection did come up on eBay a few years ago, that was owned by a deceased eccentric bachelor. He was a tinkerer like me. His collection was vast, but he did own a lot of the same discs I did. However his collection was much larger. I did pick up quite a few rare items I always wanted. The records were all in immaculate condition.

The guy was a true audio hoarder, and according to his nephew his whole house was crammed with gear LPs and tapes.

I got to know his nephew, who had the job of disposing of the estate well, and met him once on a trip back to the UK. He know nothing of audio. What came out of the house was an absolute museum load. I had to advise on just about what every item was. Even some I had to research. For one item I had to ask for help from the guy who runs the audio jumble at Tunbridge Wells.

Apart from the LPs that came from that collection, my experience with used LPs has been disappointing.

My children are dreading of having to dispose of this collection when I die. I'm under constant pressure to dispose of it now, which I resist forcefully!

One day it will be scattered to four corners of the Earth in an eBay feeding frenzy.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Are you implying that I'm not? :p
Not at all. However you an I know there are digiphobes out there without an objective bone in their bodies.

I was listening to one of my favorite LPs the nigh before last, L'oiseay-Lyre DSLO 541. It has very good performances of the Handel Ode for the Birthday of Queen Anne and the lovely Anthem for the Foundling Hospital.

The latter is the greatest composition for an appeal for money ever written. I'm certain in the TV telethons, a performance of this work would raise more than the pop crowd ever could.

Handel is the first composer I can think of who had no patrons, but left a fortune at his death from his performances and compositions. He was an innate showman, and also philanthropist.

It is a widespread feeling in England that the dearth of his music during the recent Olympic ceremonies was a disgrace. Handel has carried the great events in the British Isles on his shoulders for centuries.

Anyhow you really would be hard presses to know it was not a CD playing. The were zero pops or ticks on side one, and around 18 very soft ones on side 2. This disc has been played a lot.
 
L

Lordhumungus

Audioholic
As far as some LPs being better than the equivalent CD, that is not usually my experience. Some you would be hard pressed to tell the difference I agree.

The only situation that comes to mind in which I go to the LP rather than the CD set is the fine Kertesz Dvorak symphony collection. For some reason the remastering to CD is not optimal.
One thing to keep in mind is that the type of music we are listening to is very, very different. A lot of what I listen to sounds like it was mastered in a bathroom stall (and often bands are quite proud of that). For some reason low production value has been a hallmark and badge of old school honor of the metal scene. For whatever reason (likely incompetence related) a lot of the release sound better to me on vinyl. At the very least, they sound different which in some cases is reason enough to give it a go. I'd imagine when the dust settles I'll end up owning something like 300-400 vinyl, but I'll try to keep it at that since i have the potential to get quickly out of control.

Also, my setup is definitely in the laughably Jr. category compared to the serious business rigs you guys have. Hopefully some day I'll be able to hang, but I'm currently getting by as best I can with my limited budget and EXTREMELY limited space (I practically live in a broom closet).
 
poutanen

poutanen

Full Audioholic
Also, my setup is definitely in the laughably Jr. category compared to the serious business rigs you guys have. Hopefully some day I'll be able to hang, but I'm currently getting by as best I can with my limited budget and EXTREMELY limited space (I practically live in a broom closet).
BAH! I'm listening to vinyl on an old Kenwood table likely from the 80's... I still get enjoyment out of it, picked it up on eBay from what I remember! :D
 
L

Lordhumungus

Audioholic
I still don't even have a turntable of my own. I've been using my roommates which is in our living room. I can't seem decide how much I want to spend and if I want to go with something vintage or new. I like the idea of a vintage turntable, but I don't know enough about them to pick out one that will do what I want without a ton of setup involved. I'm also picky and want one that is black (even if it is custom painted). New ones seem nice, but something feels "off" about buying a new turntable. Paralysis by analysis....
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
I still don't even have a turntable of my own. I've been using my roommates which is in our living room. I can't seem decide how much I want to spend and if I want to go with something vintage or new. I like the idea of a vintage turntable, but I don't know enough about them to pick out one that will do what I want without a ton of setup involved. I'm also picky and want one that is black (even if it is custom painted). New ones seem nice, but something feels "off" about buying a new turntable. Paralysis by analysis....
Used In Store Used USED TECHNICS SL1210 MKII W/CASE 082712 | GuitarCenter

Pro-Ject Essential Turntable in Black

Rega RP1 Turntable

Some ideas.....I already have a SL1210, can't go wrong with those but you would pay a high premium on a new one (stopped production about 2 years ago after almost 40yrs of production). The SL1200 is easier to find, it is grey, but they have different cases you can buy to make it black. If I were in the market for a 2nd TT, it would be a Rega or Pro-Ject, but probably a notch or 2 above the budget models that I listed.
 
poutanen

poutanen

Full Audioholic
+1 to the Technics SL-1200... That what I was looking for when I bought my Kenwood. They were the same price then as they are now, and will likely stay that price or even rise again one day. For the amount of listening I ended up doing, I'm happy with the Kenwood.
 
L

Lordhumungus

Audioholic
Used In Store Used USED TECHNICS SL1210 MKII W/CASE 082712 | GuitarCenter

Pro-Ject Essential Turntable in Black

Rega RP1 Turntable

Some ideas.....I already have a SL1210, can't go wrong with those but you would pay a high premium on a new one (stopped production about 2 years ago after almost 40yrs of production). The SL1200 is easier to find, it is grey, but they have different cases you can buy to make it black. If I were in the market for a 2nd TT, it would be a Rega or Pro-Ject, but probably a notch or 2 above the budget models that I listed.
Yes, all of those have been under consideration. My roommate can get me a discount at guitar center, so that is an attractive option, but the problem is a lot of the SL1210s were abused by DJs and people who didn't know what they were doing. I think I am willing to go higher end on the Pro Ject and Rega tables as well. I also had the MusicHall models on my radar as well as the Revox linear tracking that I saw in a local second hand shop that looks really interesting (although probably out of my setup league consider how novice I am).
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Yes, all of those have been under consideration. My roommate can get me a discount at guitar center, so that is an attractive option, but the problem is a lot of the SL1210s were abused by DJs and people who didn't know what they were doing. I think I am willing to go higher end on the Pro Ject and Rega tables as well. I also had the MusicHall models on my radar as well as the Revox linear tracking that I saw in a local second hand shop that looks really interesting (although probably out of my setup league consider how novice I am).
Yup, a used 1200 could have seen DJ use/abuse. I guess going used, I would have more confidence with guitar center, sounds like you have one nearby? Go talk to them, I think they would have a good idea of the condition of each TT they sell. You could even get them to give you a call if a ringer ever comes in. But, that being said, even with abuse the 1200 can take it! Not that I would want to deal with it or recommend an abused TT, but parts are available and finding someone that can do the work is easy.
 
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