The wait begins...

[raynist]

I would add dual XV-15's for about $1500 from Powersound Audio as another possible option.

 

[cr136124]

One more thing to keep in mind on the PB12-Plus (as per SVS' bill of rights) is that you can upgrade that sub in the next 12 months after your purchase. Of course, you will have to pay shipping to return the Plus and pay the difference for the new subwoofer. But, that should give you some peace of mind if next year you want to give you a new Christmas present.........

As you, I did look at the Rythmik's subs (great product); but at the end, I pulled the trigger on SVS.

 

[Steve81]

One quick question about the FV15HP for those in the know: it seems like the 1 port mode isn't recommended by Ricci because of the port noise. Is port noise a significant issue at all in 2 port mode? Just doesn't seem like it has much port area compared with other subs in its class. Heck, even a Hsu VTF 3.4 has 2-4" ports with almost double the port area of the Rythmik.

 

[Steve81]

For those that have interest, I've settled on SVS. The aesthetics, overall build quality, 5 year warranty, bullet proof operation, and the fact that I've enjoyed the sound of the two SVS subs I've owned, outweigh that I can get more dB per dollar elsewhere. Of course, in the meantime, I've talked myself up to the Ultra from the Plus so with any luck I won't really have to revisit this question again. Now I've just got to get rid of my PC12-NSD!

 

[GlocksRock]

You will love the ultra, it's downright amazing! I just picked up a used PC12-Ultra, which is a nice step up from my 20-39 PC+, but still nowhere near as good as my PB13-Ultra. You just can't go wrong with an SVS sub.

 

[Jeff R.]

Did you buy the one listed on Audiogon in the Charlotte Area? I had seen it posted for sale.

 

[GlocksRock]

Did you buy the one listed on Audiogon in the Charlotte Area? I had seen it posted for sale.

Yeah, the one in Landis... very nice guy. He drove it to me and we did a face to face transaction. Got it all setup and integrated with my other sub last night, and so far I'm very happy with it. I think I'm going to keep my A2-300 for now, since there has been pretty much no interest in it. I'm guessing you haven't sold yours either?

 

[superspeed]

Sub Platform

Hi Guys, I noticed Glocksrock uses a sub platform for subs....I recently acquired a SVS PB12 Plus that I love....My family room/Home Theatre is not large and I have very thick carpeting with 2 long couches....Just wondering if a sub platform (riser) of any type would be of any benefit?
I know people suggest a riser to decouple the sound from a hardwood floor, but wondering if there is also the same benefits with the thick carpet and long, heavy couches?
Appreciate any input/experience you have using a sub platform.
Thanks!

 

[GlocksRock]

Using a riser/decoupler can never really hurt, but how much benefit you will get really just depends on your room. If you don't want to spend the money on buying one, you can make them pretty easily.

Check out this thread for lots of good info on DIY subwoofer risers

DIY Subwoofer Risers - Blu-ray Forum

 

[FirstReflection]

Oh man. Talk about completely missing the point of a decoupling riser in that DIY thread!

The point of a device like the Auralex GRAMMA is to decouple the subwoofer from the floor, not merely raise its height! The idea is to use a shock absorber so that the physical vibrations from the subwoofer are no longer transmitted into the floor and surrounding structure. Building the entire riser out of solid wood completely defeats the purpose! It appears as though the author of that thread completely misunderstood the point and just thought physically lifting the subwoofer was the idea.

Oy.

 

[FirstReflection]

@Steve81

I wanted to ask you, how do you have your current PC12-NSD's volume controls set up? And do you have the newer version using the 400Watt "Sledge" DSP amp? Or is it the older version with the BASH amp.

If it's the newer "Sledge" amp version, one thing to know is that the "Sledge" amps respond quite differently to the input signal than all the amps we've
Been used to before. The Sledge amps are actually meant to be used with their volume setting set as high as possible, unlike all previous amps I've ever seen where it's best to keep them at about the half-way point if possible.

Ed over at SVS actually recommends that when you're setting up your trim levels with an Auto-setup program like Audyssey or something, go ahead and put the volume on the SVS sub at about the half-way point as usual so that the Auto-setup won't wig out and try to over damp the subwoofer's volume level in the trim and EQ settings. But after the auto-setup is done, go back in and manually adjust the subwoofer output trim level to the lowest trim possible. Make note of how many dB you lower the trim level in the receiver, and then increase the volume dial on the subwoofer itself by the same amount in order to compensate.

The "Sledge" amps are at their most efficient when their volume dial is turned up as high as possible. Below the max setting, they are actually limiting the output on the assumption that they will be too loud in your room otherwise.

So it's entirely possible that you actually have a bunch more headroom in your current NSD sub that you are accidentally limiting because of where you might have the volume dial set right now. That limiter light coming on doesn't necessarily mean you are hitting the limits of the subwoofer's output capabilities. If you have the volume dial set anywhere below its maximum setting, that limiter light will come on well before the amp is actually running out of power and headroom. It is limiting the output based on the programming of the DSP, which assumes that you have set the volume dial to limit the output of the sub to the maximum SPL that you want in your room!

 

[Jeff R.]

Yeah, the one in Landis... very nice guy. He drove it to me and we did a face to face transaction. Got it all setup and integrated with my other sub last night, and so far I'm very happy with it. I think I'm going to keep my A2-300 for now, since there has been pretty much no interest in it. I'm guessing you haven't sold yours either?

Yep - Still rocking the dual A2-300s they are resonably good in my HT and really can not complain about their performance. Great for movies just lacking the any articulation for music. But none the less a solid purchase.

 

[Jeff R.]

Hi Guys, I noticed Glocksrock uses a sub platform for subs....I recently acquired a SVS PB12 Plus that I love....My family room/Home Theatre is not large and I have very thick carpeting with 2 long couches....Just wondering if a sub platform (riser) of any type would be of any benefit?
I know people suggest a riser to decouple the sound from a hardwood floor, but wondering if there is also the same benefits with the thick carpet and long, heavy couches?
Appreciate any input/experience you have using a sub platform.
Thanks!

Just buy a gramma for $50 and be done with it.....if you can afford that sub you can afford the gramma. I don't think I have read one negative comment on this forum surrounding these. I have them on all my subs and it is a huge improvement.

 

[Steve81]

@Steve81

I wanted to ask you, how do you have your current PC12-NSD's volume controls set up? And do you have the newer version using the 400Watt "Sledge" DSP amp? Or is it the older version with the BASH amp.

If it's the newer "Sledge" amp version, one thing to know is that the "Sledge" amps respond quite differently to the input signal than all the amps we've
Been used to before. The Sledge amps are actually meant to be used with their volume setting set as high as possible, unlike all previous amps I've ever seen where it's best to keep them at about the half-way point if possible.

Ed over at SVS actually recommends that when you're setting up your trim levels with an Auto-setup program like Audyssey or something, go ahead and put the volume on the SVS sub at about the half-way point as usual so that the Auto-setup won't wig out and try to over damp the subwoofer's volume level in the trim and EQ settings. But after the auto-setup is done, go back in and manually adjust the subwoofer output trim level to the lowest trim possible. Make note of how many dB you lower the trim level in the receiver, and then increase the volume dial on the subwoofer itself by the same amount in order to compensate.

The "Sledge" amps are at their most efficient when their volume dial is turned up as high as possible. Below the max setting, they are actually limiting the output on the assumption that they will be too loud in your room otherwise.

So it's entirely possible that you actually have a bunch more headroom in your current NSD sub that you are accidentally limiting because of where you might have the volume dial set right now. That limiter light coming on doesn't necessarily mean you are hitting the limits of the subwoofer's output capabilities. If you have the volume dial set anywhere below its maximum setting, that limiter light will come on well before the amp is actually running out of power and headroom. It is limiting the output based on the programming of the DSP, which assumes that you have set the volume dial to limit the output of the sub to the maximum SPL that you want in your room!

Thanks for the input! Never heard that before. Could be worth a try, although I've got my heart set on the Ultra and my wife is excited to be getting rid of the water heater Wouldn't want to disappoint the little lady!

As it is, I do have the Sledge amplifier, and right now the volume on it is turned down to about 11 o'clock with the receiver trimming 4.5dB off that, so if the above is correct, I'm doing it wrong

PS: I'm assuming based on past results, each tick (ie from 11 o clock to 12 o clock) is about 3dB. Anyone know for sure?

 

[Steve81]

Tested it out, but no real results. Had the gain to about 3 o'clock, which represented about a 15.5dB increase. Had to shift all the other speakers by 5dB just to keep things balanced. In both test modes, on the scene I selected, the PC12-NSD started flashing around -9dB from reference. So unfortunately, no big untapped reserves for me.

 

[FirstReflection]

Well I would NEVER stop anyone from getting an Ultra!



The NSD subs certainly have their limits in terms of potential output. If the room is big enough and you like to listen loud enough, it's certainly possible to exceed the output capabilities of the NSD subs. I know several people who've done so

But yeah, just figured the volume dial "trick" was at least worth a try since it's a free and pretty easy adjustment! I was just as surprised to learn about that little quirk in the new Sledge amps. It was only when another forum member told me what Ed had said to him, and after talking with Ed myself that I learned about the whole, "set the volume dial on the sub itself as high as possible with the trim level in the receiver set to its minimum setting" thing. It's certainly unusual, but it sort of makes sense if you think if you think of the volume dial on the Sledge amps as simply being a way to back off and limit the maximum output, rather than the traditional volume dials that we've all gotten used to.

If all your other speakers wound up being about +5dB in their trim levels, and the NSD only started to flash its limiter light with the master volume on your receiver set to -9dB, then you were really only about -4dB from Reference Level. That's a pretty big jump from the -15dB levels you were at before!

So it seems to me that increasing the volume dial setting on the subwoofer itself and decreasing the trim level of the sub in the receiver to its minimum added a fair amount of extra headroom and output after all! Not enough to allow you to listen at full Reference Volume, but still a pretty big increase in output.

I'm guessing your receiver has, like, maybe + or - 12dB or 15dB or 20dB to play with for each speaker trim level? So yeah, if the subwoofer's trim level in the receiver was at -4.5dB before, and now you have it at its minimum of -20dB, we can sort of imagine that if it were possible to set the trim even lower to, like, -25dB, you basically would have been able to leave your other speakers' trim levels where they were, and turn up the volume dial on the Sledge amp even a couple more notches.

It's only a rough estimate, but it seems like you would have been able to set the master volume to about -4dB from Reference Volume before the limiter light kicked on in that scenario. So from -15dB before to only -4dB? That's, like, kind of a big deal, no?

But yeah, the Ultra should absolutely stun you with how good it is Try this whole volume dial and trim level thing with the Ultra too though. I can't say I even really fully understand it, but I trust that Ed knows all about the SVS subwoofers he's selling And yeah, even if the volume dial "trick" only truly took you from -15dB below Reference to -9dB below Reference, that's still a pretty big boost in maximum output for "free"! Can't hurt to try it with the Ultra in any case, right?

 

[Steve81]

The NSD subs certainly have their limits in terms of potential output. If the room is big enough and you like to listen loud enough, it's certainly possible to exceed the output capabilities of the NSD subs.

I do still wonder how much of it is because of significant content below the passband versus actually exceeding the 20-80Hz output ability though. It seems like sometimes it cuts a lot earlier than it should (no specific example, just a general statement), and that is about the only explanation I can think of.

If all your other speakers wound up being about +5dB in their trim levels, and the NSD only started to flash its limiter light with the master volume on your receiver set to -9dB, then you were really only about -4dB from Reference Level. That's a pretty big jump from the -15dB levels you were at before!

Nah I had already made the adjustment before I reported the results, and -15dB was just a general "I've seen the limiter light flash here before" kind of thing, not a figure for the specific scene I watched.

Still though, as you say, it doesn't hurt anything to make the adjustment with the Ultra. I'm kind of jittery in anticipation now....

 

[FirstReflection]

I'm kind of jittery in anticipation now....

Haha. Yeah. It's good times.

mmm...PB13-Ultra

lol

 

[Steve81]

Welp, I guess I won't have to wait too long. Order is placed.

Willpower? What's that???

 

[Steve81]

Wait over