Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[Adam]

I thought it would be cool to have the top part of the Phil 3s. Nice tweeter, nice midrange, and I've got a sub to fill in the rest. Would the tops not work well as bookshelves? The monitors look a lot different with different drivers.

 

[Swerd]

… are there existing, or plans to make, bookshelf versions and a center channel? I don't do much two-channel listening anymore, but I use my home theater system all of the time.

There is a 2-way bookshelf speaker Dennis makes that can be used as surrounds or a center. I believe its called the Philharmonitor. It consists of a Seas ER18 6½" woofer and a Fountek ribbon tweeter (same tweeter as in the Phil 1). These are the same drivers as in the ER18 MTM DIY design. Dennis used to make a center channel speaker with two ER18 woofers and the same tweeter, but he no longer wants to do that. Instead Salk makes an center channel speaker, but right now I can't remember what model it is. It might be the SongCenter.

Dennis tried a few small inexpensive monitors to see what works as rear channel speakers for the Phils. The new NHT SuperZero 2 was the best of those he tried. At $99 each, Dennis recommends them.

I know you have NHT 1.5 speakers. What are your present center and rear channel speakers? If they are NHT, chances are very good that they will do fine with Phils.

The top portion of the Phils intrigues me, but the bottom looks too deep for where I'd want them.

Dennis says that the Phil cabinets can easily be placed right up against the wall behind them. The port is on the top of the deep bass cabinet. He also suggests keeping the Phils away from side walls or in corners because the bass becomes too much.

Dennis also says in the works is a smaller Phil floor stander that uses (perhaps) a 6½" woofer, a 4" cone midrange (probably a ScanSpeak) instead of the BG planar, and the same RAAL tweeter as in the Phil 2 & 3. I don't know when this might appear.

 

[fuzz092888]

I thought it would be cool to have the top part of the Phil 3s. Nice tweeter, nice midrange, and I've got a sub to fill in the rest. Would the tops not work well as bookshelves? The monitors look a lot different with different drivers.

Good question I guess we'll wait to see what Dennis Says about that. I'm suddenly interested to know as well

 

[Adam]

Thanks, guys!

I know you have NHT 1.5 speakers. What are your present center and rear channel speakers? If they are NHT, chances are very good that they will do fine with Phils.

My rear speakers are also 1.5s, and my center is an NHT AudioCenter-1.

 

[Swerd]

I thought it would be cool to have the top part of the Phil 3s. Nice tweeter, nice midrange, and I've got a sub to fill in the rest. Would the tops not work well as bookshelves? The monitors look a lot different with different drivers.

The tops will not work alone as monitors. The BG planar midrange can't go low enough to work as a midwoofer. In the Phils, the woofer-mid crossover frequency is between 600 and 700 Hz.

 

[fuzz092888]

Dennis used to make a center channel speaker with two ER18 woofers and the same tweeter, but he no longer wants to do that. Instead Salk makes an center channel speaker, but right now I can't remember what model it is. It might be the SongCenter.

I thought Salk had the actual plans for the Phil center MTM as well as another design Dennis did and that neither are the song center.

Dennis says that the Phil cabinets can easily be placed right up against the wall behind them. The port is on the top of the deep bass cabinet. He also suggests keeping the Phils away from side walls or in corners because the bass becomes too much.

Dennis also says in the works is a smaller Phil floor stander that uses (perhaps) a 6½" woofer, a 4" cone midrange (probably a ScanSpeak) instead of the BG planar, and the same RAAL tweeter as in the Phil 2 & 3. I don't know when this might appear.

He also said it may never happen, it's all up in the air right now I think and I think Adam was asking about only the upper cabinet and no lower cabinet.

Asked and answered

 

[Swerd]

My rear speakers are also 1.5s, and my center is an NHT AudioCenter-1.

I think those will be an excellent match for speakers voiced by Dennis Murphy.

For years, I used a NHT SuperCenter with my SongTowers. It worked rather well. When set as a small speaker (high pass at 80 Hz), it sounded remarkably similar to the Salks. Last November I finally got a Salk SongCenter. The biggest difference was that the Salk could get noticeably louder than the NHT.

If I recall, the NHT AudioCenter is a better speaker than the SuperCenter I had.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Good question I guess we'll wait to see what Dennis Says about that. I'm suddenly interested to know as well

Wouldn't that be cool--just take the top portion of the Phil 2 or 3 and use it as a monitor or center. There's just one problem. The planar midrange only goes down to 600 Hz. That's kind of high to cross to a sub. Way high. And even if I used a cone midrange, I would still have to cross around 300 Hz in order to use a passive crossover to the woofer. I don't advertise the Philharmonitor because I barely break even on it. And Del the cabinet maker hates routing the baffles for the drivers because they come finished from the supplier. I only sell the monitors if I can't talk someone out of them. As reported, Jim Salk makes the center for me. But it's my design, albeit very similar to the SongCenter. The only difference is that I use the Fountek ribbon tweeter instead of the Hiquphon 0W2 dome.

 

[fuzz092888]

Wouldn't that be cool--just take the top portion of the Phil 2 or 3 and use it as a monitor or center. There's just one problem. The planar midrange only goes down to 600 Hz. That's kind of high to cross to a sub. Way high. And even if I used a cone midrange, I would still have to cross around 300 Hz in order to use a passive crossover to the woofer. I don't advertise the Philharmonitor because I barely break even on it. And Del the cabinet maker hates routing the baffles for the drivers because they come finished from the supplier. I only sell the monitors if I can't talk someone out of them. As reported, Jim Salk makes the center for me. But it's my design, albeit very similar to the SongCenter. The only difference is that I use the Fountek ribbon tweeter instead of the Hiquphon 0W2 dome.

Oh well, I guess somebody could always get Del to make them a custom Philharmonitor cabinet in the shape of the upper and then use the philharmonitor drivers. Although I guess that would be near doubling the price of them.

Charge more

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I guess this dude likes slow bass (second from bottom):


Capital Audiofest 2012 High-End Audio Show Report

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Hi. Here's a high gloss red mahogany Phil 3 I just picked up from Del. It isn't hand-rubbed, so it doesn't have a mirror finish like that of a certain forum member I could mention. But it is high gloss and very attractive for a lot less money.

 

[PENG]

Dennis, is it possible to have the back of the Phil 3 closed/covered, and still sound as intended, say by you tweaking the design a bit. I am hoping to get a pair at the end of the year but am not quite ready to embrace the open back thing yet.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Denis, is it possible to have the back of the Phil 3 closed/covered, and still sound as intended, say by you tweaking the design a bit. I am hoping to get a pair at the end of the year but am not quite ready to embrace the open back thing yet.

Hi You can pretty much control the amount of rear wave information by varying the amount of the poly fill inside the upper cabinet. I supply enough to allow you to practically stuff both cabinets full, which will absorb most of the rear wave. And you can order blank covers to completely close the midrange cabinet. So far no one has said that they prefer the sound with no rear wave or very little.

 

[PENG]

Hi You can pretty much control the amount of rear wave information by varying the amount of the poly fill inside the upper cabinet. I supply enough to allow you to practically stuff both cabinets full, which will absorb most of the rear wave. And you can order blank covers to completely close the midrange cabinet. So far no one has said that they prefer the sound with no rear wave or very little.

If it needs the rear wave for your design to sound live like/accuracy then I wouldn't want it closed. I just worry about the look from where they would be located and that a dog could get in and do damages unintentionally.

I would not give up anything that could potentially affect accuracy negatively. I have only one goal for my system, that it, for it to sound like (as much as possible) what I hear in live concerts, classical or anything that does not involve anything other than real musical instruments. The fact that you play in classical concerts give me a lot of blind faith.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

If it needs the rear wave for your design to sound live like/accuracy then I wouldn't want it closed. I just worry about the look from where they would be located and that a dog could get in and do damages unintentionally.

I would not give up anything that could potentially affect accuracy negatively. I have only one goal for my system, that it, for it to sound like (as much as possible) what I hear in live concerts, classical or anything that does not involve anything other than real musical instruments. The fact that you play in classical concerts give me a lot of blind faith.

The rear of the cabinets have magnetic grills, so they shouldn't look weird, and I don't think even my dog would feel like investigating. The rear wave isn't strong enough to upset the tonal balance. It just gives added depth.

 

[PENG]

The rear of the cabinets have magnetic grills, so they shouldn't look weird, and I don't think even my dog would feel like investigating. The rear wave isn't strong enough to upset the tonal balance. It just gives added depth.

OKay I didn't know it comes with a grille. I am certainly going to work on getting a pair for Christmas.

 

[fuzz092888]

Well, I did a little comparison using the solid backs on my Phils and using the open back. I can definitely say for big orchestral music the open back wins hands down. However, in my room and in my opinion the closed back I got has its merits. Without a center channel running, I like the closing off the back because voices are a bit clearer and everything is pushed forward.

I don't think more detail is needed, I think the closed back is fun to play with, but for everyone else it really isn't necessary and I think PENG will come to love the open back design when he gets it I know I do.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My Phil3 are now in the family room. The back is 6 inches from the wall.

I think the sound is slightly affected. So I stuffed 100%. Now they sound perfect again.

When they were in my HT room, they were about 18" from the bass cab back to wall. I didn't notice any difference with the stuffing.

So I think if you are way out from the wall like GranteedEV, 0% fill would be great. If only inches out from wall like me, 100% stuffing is right.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

My Phil3 are now in the family room. The back is 6 inches from the wall.

I think the sound is slightly affected. So I stuffed 100%. Now they sound perfect again.

When they were in my HT room, they were about 18" from the bass cab back to wall. I didn't notice any difference with the stuffing.

So I think if you are way out from the wall like GranteedEV, 0% fill would be great. If only inches out from wall like me, 100% stuffing is right.

Thanks to both of you for the feedback. That accords with my expectations and experience. And that's why I designed them the way I did--you should be able to arrive at the best sound for you and your room with a little experimentation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

PENG, I just found out on AVS that the gloss finish (which is not piano high-gloss, but looks really great) only costs $50 per pair! The mahogany veneer is $100/pr. The gloss is another $50/pr. I think the full front grilles are like $100/pr (can't remember).