B&W 802D: 3rd Time's a Charm on Friday the 13th

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay, so by now everyone knows B&W can't do off-axis to save their lives.........but wait, this story has a different ending!

Because this time is the 3rd time. And not even Friday the 13th can jinks it! Or can it?

I went to my B&W dealer in Edmond today after work. It's the same place I went to audition the 803D, 802D, & 800D over a year ago.

This is the same room as before, which is about 15' x 17' x 10'. There are 3 large acoustic panels on each side of the 17' walls. There are 2 large bass traps on each corner of the 15' front wall. The 802D and 803D were side-by-side on the 15' wall, driven by Rotel 200wpc amp & pre-pro & McIntosh media player. The 800D & 805D were side-by-side on the 17' wall, driven by Classe CA5300 300wpc amp & SSP800 pre-pro.

Last time, all the speakers were driven by all NAD electronics. The 800D, 802D, & 803D were all sitting side-by-side on the 15' wall. I didn't notice the 2 large cylindrical bass traps either. One leather sofa sits on the 15' back wall for the 802D & 803D. Now they added a 2nd leather sofa on the 17' back wall for the 800D & 805D.

To recap, the 1st audition was a few years ago in Norman. I was very disappointed. The 2nd audition was here in Edmond. I was also disappointed. The sound seemed "compressed", "dead", "boring", and at times not very clear.

But this time was completely different. I brought the usual compilation CD. I also listened to a few demo Jazz tracks the dealer had. The sound seemed alot more dynamic, more lifelike, more exciting, and more clear! The difference seemed like night and day.

How is this possible? I actually enjoyed listening to the 802D!

I must be giving in to the dark side or something.

I actually thought the 802D sounded great this time.

It's no wonder some people just hate B&W, while some people just love B&W.

Anyway, I offered the dealer $9,000 cash right there on the spot. I told him I could write him a check immediately. He rejected my offer and asked for $10,000 plus another $900 tax.

So I said, "Well, thank you for your time. I already own the Revel Salon2, KEF Reference 201/2, Linkwitz Orion, and Philharmonic Audio speakers. I was going to add this 802D to my collection. But not at $10,900."

I do have my limits, you know?

So in conclusion, I love the aesthetics of the 802D Rosenut. And now I also love the sound quality of the 802D. I still think the Phil3, Salon2, KEF 201/2, Orion3 sound a little better, especially the Phil3. But now I think the 802D also sound great. I just hope it doesn't have to require Friday the 13th for them to sound great.

 

[zieglj01]

As the Audiophile World Turns, things do change. Things are now different
from what it was, or from what it would be if left alone.

 

[Adam]

I think that we can all guess why you liked them today. I just hope that you weren't driving in your condition.

I'm glad that you liked them! Do have a theory as to why? Do you think that listening to your other speakers has made you appreciate some aspect of the sound more?

I'm still amazed that you'd spend even $9k on a pair of speakers that you had thought were bad, but today thought were almost (almost) as good as your ~$3k speakers. Then again, those are some sweet looking speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think that we can all guess why you liked them today. I just hope that you weren't driving in your condition.

I'm glad that you liked them! Do have a theory as to why? Do you think that listening to your other speakers has made you appreciate some aspect of the sound more?

I'm still amazed that you'd spend even $9k on a pair of speakers that you had thought were bad, but today thought were almost (almost) as good as your ~$3k speakers. Then again, those are some sweet looking speakers.

I'm not sure. I was listening to the same tunes. I don't know if the dealer had done something weird on the pre-pro side previously. I don't know if having the 800D + 802D + 803D side-by-side previously messed up the sound. The door was also open this time. The door was closed the last time because the dealer didn't want to disturb the other customers.

But, yeah, the aesthetics is soooooooooo awesome. Standing next to it. Touching it. Feeling it. Wow. Amazing craftsmanship.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Classe amp

I also want to mention the Classe 300wpc amp. This thing isn't cheap. The spec says SNR -116dBA. It was hooked to the 800D.

But I could hear the hiss from 2 ft away!

Very disappointing for such a high-end gear. I expected it to be dead silent like the ATI amps.

My Crown XLS has hiss sound too, but not beyond 6" from the tweeter.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The 800/802D have some awesome technology, but I don't like a tonal balance that subtly mimics an old-fashioned loudness function. Especially in the highs. Too fatiguing. My hearing is still rated A+ (I can easily hear 18KHz) even at my advanced age.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 800/802D have some awesome technology, but I don't like a tonal balance that subtly mimics an old-fashioned loudness function. Especially in the highs. Too fatiguing. My hearing is still rated A+ (I can easily hear 18KHz) even at my advanced age.

I never found B&W to sound bright or fatiguing. Before I thought they were the total opposite, which is dull and compressed.

I hope my hearing is still great. I've never listened to louder than a Max of 85dBA or 93dBC on the SPL.

This time the 802D sounded fine to me.

I'll wait about 2 or 3 more weeks. Then I might offer $9.5K + $800 tax. They sound good enough for me to buy. They look awesome enough for sure.

 

[Adam]

Will he let you audition them in your home, so that you can directly compare them to your other speakers before buying?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Will he let you audition them in your home, so that you can directly compare them to your other speakers before buying?

I may ask him that. He will probably say "No", but I'll give it a shot. In a few weeks.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I never found B&W to sound bright or fatiguing. Before I thought they were the total opposite, which is dull and compressed.

I hope my hearing is still great. I've never listened to louder than a Max of 85dBA or 93dBC on the SPL.

This time the 802D sounded fine to me.

Then we're on different pages altogether. B&W has been tuning the 800 series somewhat hot in the bass and treble for several years. It makes for exciting demos, but I find it annoying.

You can have your ears tested or download test files to figure out what your hearing range is like. I recommend a hearing test, because it is possible to abuse your ears and speakers with 15KHz+ test tones if you have some hearing loss in that range, if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[GranteedEV]

was the toe-in different this time?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

was the toe-in different this time?

Yes. Last time all 3 800D, 802D, & 803D were sitting side-by-side on the 15' wall. There was no room for toe-in.

This time only the 802D and 803D were side by side, so they toe-in about 30-40 degree or so. A significant toe-in this time.

 

[cpp]

ah just buy them you know you wanta

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ah just buy them you know you wanta

I'm like Adam; $500 makes a difference; I don't care if the total is $10K; $500 makes a difference!

I definitely want to. Will see.

 

[KEW]

Then we're on different pages altogether. B&W has been tuning the 800 series somewhat hot in the bass and treble for several years. It makes for exciting demos, but I find it annoying.

Isn't it a scientific fact that your ears sensitivity drops off for high and low pitches at low SPLs? That is the basis for the old Loudness switch (but unfortunately, there was no way to calibrate it for speaker efficiencies and many companies were overzealous in their implementation - it wowed buyers at a the store and fatigued them at home).
AES E-Library » Loudness Compensation: Use and Abuse
Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So if you listen at lower volumes, I could see speakers like the B&W's sounding more like the source material which was likely produced at a significantly higher volume.
I'm not saying your subjective comments are not honest, just pointing out that perception is on a sliding scale.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm like Adam; $500 makes a difference; I don't care if the total is $10K; $500 makes a difference!

I definitely want to. Will see.

I still think you should get Salk Sound to do a Soundscape 8, but get em built to look like the B&Ws.

 

[GranteedEV]

So if you listen at lower volumes, I could see speakers like the B&W's sounding more like the source material which was likely produced at a significantly higher volume.

But their response curve doesn't actually look like a loudness curve. It's just one big peak here and another big peak there, and then really random off axis response that makes no sense.

 

[KEW]

I'm like Adam; $500 makes a difference; I don't care if the total is $10K; $500 makes a difference!

I definitely want to. Will see.

Translation: "Those speakers will be mine and I'll ultimately pay whatever it takes!"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Isn't it a scientific fact that your ears sensitivity drops off for high and low pitches at low SPLs? That is the basis for the old Loudness switch (but unfortunately, there was no way to calibrate it for speaker efficiencies and many companies were overzealous in their implementation - it wowed buyers at a the store and fatigued them at home).
AES E-Library » Loudness Compensation: Use and Abuse
Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So if you listen at lower volumes, I could see speakers like the B&W's sounding more like the source material which was likely produced at a significantly higher volume.
I'm not saying your subjective comments are not honest, just pointing out that perception is a sliding scale.

Uh oh. Maybe that's why the dealer didn't "let" me turn the volume way up like the previous times.

I mean the volume was decent, but not 92dBC Max decent. It was probably maybe Max of 80dBC.

I guess I forgot to mention this very important point.

I just assumed it would sound better at higher volume.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

off axis response that makes no sense.

Kind of like my desire to buy the 802D Rosenut?

Or RED speakers in general?

My wife thinks all speakers are red.

What's that saying ----- love is blind?

Maybe I'm so enchanted with the aesthetics and so my mind is playing tricks on me.

Maybe I've been trying so hard to find a good excuse to buy them. My mind finally had enough and gave in.

But guys, PENG, TLS Guy, and quite a few others like the 802D/ 800D sound. Are their minds playing tricks as well?