Emotiva XPR-5 Five-Channel Reference Power Amplifier Preview

edoggrc51

edoggrc51

Audioholic
After months of thorough research about making my first power amp purchase, i've pretty much consolidated my decision to go with an XPR-5. Here's some of my reasoning:

-Level matched, solid state power amps will sound more alike than different, so i'm basing my decision on other factors, stated below.
-Emotiva is known to provide excellent customer service and this thing has a 5 year warranty on it. There's a likelihood that they'll be around for a while (impossible to predict, but right now they're looking good as a company)
-High resale value. If you buy one of their amps on sale, you can sell them for nearly as much as you bought them during a period when they're not on sale. The warranty is user transferrable, which helps. There's also a 30 day money back guarantee if I immediately decide I hate it.
-Though probably not as refined in terms of circuitry and other components contained in a Parasound Halo or other well regarded amp, the XPR-5 provides very comparable specifications for the money. Speaking of money...
-Brand new, it's significantly cheaper than other options with similar specs, which is a huge plus for me, having a strict budget. This is a benefit of being internet direct. The downside is that they're made and assembled in China (a minor gripe for me -- other products like the Parasound are also China sourced.) These things seem to be solidly built and the enclosure looks to be made out of good quality material, not overbuilt to the extent of a Krell or Bryston, but for the price, I wasn't expecting it to be.
-400WPC is probably overkill for my situation and most others, but more power is never a bad thing and can provide for additional benefits such as extra headroom if I need it. My speakers aren't hard to drive, but they're not an easy load either. 4 ohms and okay sensitivity in the middle 80s. My room is very large and open, so I believe i'll benefit from a power amp of some sort at louder volumes.
-I have the space for a huge amp and personally think it looks very sleek. It matches the decor of my home theater. If I feel i'm being drowned by the blue lights, I have the option to dim or turn them off completely. If my house gets broken into, this amp is staying on it's rack due to its weight and bulk.

My concerns include:
-It's a brand new product and first waves of any electronic product can provide for quality control issues. This point is mitigated by the warranty and responsive customer service from Emotiva, so i've heard. In the case that something goes wrong with the amp, i'm hoping I don't have to pay return shipping.
-There's virtually no reviews of the product out there yet, so i'm taking a risk.
-Emotiva hasn't been around for as long as other companies, so no one really knows if their amps will last 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

I will let users in this thread know my thoughts when it arrives. I'm not expecting it to drastically change the sound of my set-up and on the contrary, i'm hoping it'll be more transparent than anything. As long as there's no noticeable hiss produced through my speakers from a distance, I think I will be happy with my decision.
Congrats on the purchase. :cool:

Just gonna throw this out there, food for thought if you will. I have a Cinenova Grande 5 amp which specs out (power wise) closely to the XPR-5. I took it to a friend's house so he could demo it with his full Polk LSi setup and the amp tripped his breaker. When we switched over to his easier to drive X-statik speakers, there was no problem at all. Anyhow moral of the story, make sure your electrical is up to the task. :)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Congrats on the purchase. :cool:

Just gonna throw this out there, food for thought if you will. I have a Cinenova Grande 5 amp which specs out (power wise) closely to the XPR-5. I took it to a friend's house so he could demo it with his full Polk LSi setup and the amp tripped his breaker. When we switched over to his easier to drive X-statik speakers, there was no problem at all. Anyhow moral of the story, make sure your electrical is up to the task. :)
No doubt those LSI 4 ohm speakers could draw quite a bit of current but even with 7 LSi15 it will still be extremely unlikely to trip a 15A circuit breaker if the breaker is dedicated to the amp only. A 15A circuit breaker will typically trip when the draw is much greater than 15A, say 20A for a period of time. To know the exact current/time relationship you need to see the breaker's current vs time characteristic curve. I can tell you with certainty that even a 'typical (not fast/slow blow type)15A fuse will take a long time to blow if its rating is only exceeded by say 20%. Circuit breakers typically should do better than fues in that sense. Also keep in mind 15A at 120V is 1800 VA. I highly doubt a normal person in a most home application will draw anything more than a few hundred watts on a continuous basis when listening to music or movies.

Are you sure your friend's 15A circuit is a dedicated one for the Grande only or did it trip the breaker on powering up (due to the initial surge)? Regardless, the OP should feed that amp with dedicated circuit with current rating recommended by the manufacturer (I am guessing 20A may be fine but go with what the manufacturer says) just for peace of mind and I am certain under normal use it will never trip the breaker unless something (including the breaker) becomes defective. The 3.3 kVA transformer could theoretically draw more than 20A but as I mentioned before, unless it draws significantly higher than the breaker rated current for a period of time (more than a few seconds), even a 20A breaker will hold. There is an exception to the rule, that is, unless Emotiva has some sort of soft start circuit, there is a chance that depending on the point on the sine wave of the 120V incoming voltage when the amp is turned on, the 3.3 kVA transformer could draw much higher (say >100A) at the instant it gets powered up even if you have no speakers connected. That is, the high startup current drawn by the transformer primary winding could trip even a 20A or even 30A breaker. I sure hope Emotiva has taken that into consideration and implemented adequate circuity to mitigate such risk.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Never!

No way. No remorse!

As soon as I buy the B&W 802s, they will sound great! :D

No seriously. My family room is better than the dealer. And a lot of times we feel that speakers sound better to us over time (instead of 2 hrs of listening).
Even if they don't sound better than your P362, you can at least play/touch that sexy Marlan head all day long.:D Admit it, they are way sexier than the Salon2s, right?

Actually the XPR-5 does look quite nice to me too, I may even get one if I can figure out where to put it. Don't drive the 802 with one though or the dealer (B&W of course) may void your warranty.:D
 
edoggrc51

edoggrc51

Audioholic
Good point Peng. My friend had his Epson PJ, Onkyo 805, Samsung BD player, and Epik Castle all plugged in and sharing the 15amp circuit. It didn't shut off on the initial power up, only when we turned up the volume to reference levels. It didn't do it with the 8ohm X-statik speakers though.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I stay away from the forum for a few days and the fanboys start crawling out of the woodwork.



At least this time it's only the Emotiva fanboys and not one of the subwoofer fanboy groups. Those subwoofer guys are nuts. :rolleyes:
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Good point Peng. My friend had his Epson PJ, Onkyo 805, Samsung BD player, and Epik Castle all plugged in and sharing the 15amp circuit. It didn't shut off on the initial power up, only when we turned up the volume to reference levels. It didn't do it with the 8ohm X-statik speakers though.
That explains it if all or some of the other connected loads were on at the same when your friend is listening at ref volume on a full set of 4 ohm LSIs. Thanks for the feedback, save me wondering.. Your friend really should find another clean 15A outlet to take advantage of his full set of sweet sounding LSI speakers.
 
edoggrc51

edoggrc51

Audioholic
Agreed. He's actually thinking of building a dedicated HT room where he'll have a couple of dedicated circuits installed. He's just gotta get the approval from the wifey. :eek:
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I'm getting really tired of this thread being derailed as well as the general negativity towards Emotiva for launching a new series of amplifiers.
It's too late.

The Emotiva fans are gonna cancel their plans to attend the AH-GTG :p
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Even if they don't sound better than your P362, you can at least play/touch that sexy Marlan head all day long.:D Admit it, they are way sexier than the Salon2s, right?

Actually the XPR-5 does look quite nice to me too, I may even get one if I can figure out where to put it. Don't drive the 802 with one though or the dealer (B&W of course) may void your warranty.:D
Marlan head sexy yes. :D

Sexier than Salon2 yes. :cool:

I would drive the 802D with ATI AT2004. Fine, fine amp good enough for Mark Levinson, Lexicon, and Revel. :D

I'm sure the XPR-5 would also be awesome. The XPR-5's aesthetics is growing on me already. Reminds me of the Aragon/ Acurus days.
 
B

Bghead8che

Audioholic Intern
So it looks like this new amps Achilles heel will be its SNR? From the few reviews I can find as a whole the Emotiva amps seem to sacrifice SNR in favor of more power.

I passed on the Emotiva because SNR is very important to me. I like my "inky black" background. :D

-Brian
 
B

Bghead8che

Audioholic Intern
I just looked at their site. Check out the SNR ratings:

XPR-5

93
109

XPA-5

97
111

Anthem A-5

120 (full power)

That's a decent difference. IMO, a "reference" product should have better SNR numbers than its half-priced sibling. Unless your speakers beg for more power I'd take an Anthem, ATI, Outlaw any day. :eek:

-Brian
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So it looks like this new amps Achilles heel will be its SNR? From the few reviews I can find as a whole the Emotiva amps seem to sacrifice SNR in favor of more power.

I passed on the Emotiva because SNR is very important to me. I like my "inky black" background. :D

-Brian
So what will you be getting instead?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I just looked at their site. Check out the SNR ratings:

XPR-5

93
109

XPA-5

97
111

Anthem A-5

120 (full power)

That's a decent difference. IMO, a "reference" product should have better SNR numbers than its half-priced sibling. Unless your speakers beg for more power I'd take an Anthem, ATI, Outlaw any day. :eek:

-Brian
ATI AT3000:
SNR -123dB 20Hz-20kHz, Crosstalk -100dB 20Hz-20AkHz.

Only if numbers are important to you. Some guys don't mind as much.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I have a couple of Emotiva amps and they perform fine.
My biggest complaint is the depth of their amplifiers, and I am disappointed that they did not reduce the depth of their Reference series.
You pretty much need 24" between the front of the unit and the wall once you allow for the connections.
Given that flat screens are the norm, it seems like new components should be getting less deep and maybe taller.
 
B

Bghead8che

Audioholic Intern
ATI AT3000:
SNR -123dB 20Hz-20kHz, Crosstalk -100dB 20Hz-20AkHz.

Only if numbers are important to you. Some guys don't mind as much.

I don't see that amp on Classic Audio's site. I see the 3007 for $3K but that's only a 25% discount. 25% is a very average deal. I'd take one for 50% off though!

I'm looking at the Anthem A5. With a focus on low distortion and high SNR it seems to be the amp for me.

-Brian
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I don't see that amp on Classic Audio's site. I see the 3007 for $3K but that's only a 25% discount. 25% is a very average deal. I'd take one for 50% off though!

I'm looking at the Anthem A5. With a focus on low distortion and high SNR it seems to be the amp for me.

-Brian
I meant the AT3000-series as in 3002 - 3007.

Yeah, I was lucky enough to get all my ATI amps @ 50% off minus another $100 - $200 off from Classic Audio Parts. :D

Right now the only one @ 50% off is the AT1807, which is conservatively rated at 180wpc x 7ch RMS @ 0.03% THD, -120dB SNR, -100dB crosstalk 20Hz-20kHz, 93lbs, 7yr warranty, made in USA.

The Anthem A5 is rated @ 180wpc x 5ch RMS @ 0.03% THD, -120dB SNR, but crosstalk is significantly worse @ -78dB @ 1kHz, which means even worse @ full bandwidth 20Hz-20kHz, 57lbs.

Kind of funny how they call the Anthem A5 a "225wpc amp" when that is only with ONE channel driven! With 5ch driven, it is 180wpc. :eek:


Maybe just me, but does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I would trust ATI more. So would Kevin Voecks, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, etc. :D

At $1395, the AT1807 wins in my book.

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers.html
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I just looked at their site. Check out the SNR ratings:

XPR-5

93
109

XPA-5

97
111

Anthem A-5

120 (full power)

That's a decent difference. IMO, a "reference" product should have better SNR numbers than its half-priced sibling. Unless your speakers beg for more power I'd take an Anthem, ATI, Outlaw any day. :eek:

-Brian
You need to compare SNR between amps at the same power levels and same weighing filtering. This is why I like to scale all power amps SNR figures down to 1 watt where the amp idles most of the time anyways.

I will measure SNR on the new Emo amp like I've done with all other amps. The XPA amps are pretty quiet even more so than any previous generation amps I've measured from Emotiva except for the UPA-7 which was really nice and quite.
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You need to compare SNR between amps at the same power levels and same weighing filtering. This is why I like to scale all power amps SNR figures down to 1 watt where the amp idles most of the time anyways.

I will measure SNR on the new Emo amp like I've done with all other amps. The XPA amps are very quiet even more so than any previous generation amps I've measured from Emotiva.
Will be interesting to compare XPA vs XPR. As Brian says, we expect the $2,000 flagship model to measure better than the $800 model in all aspects, not just power output.
 
B

Bghead8che

Audioholic Intern
You need to compare SNR between amps at the same power levels and same weighing filtering. This is why I like to scale all power amps SNR figures down to 1 watt where the amp idles most of the time anyways.

I will measure SNR on the new Emo amp like I've done with all other amps. The XPA amps are very quiet even more so than any previous generation amps I've measured from Emotiva.
I understand but those are apples to apple comparisions. The Emotiva amps were measured using the same standards and the Anthem number is a "full rated power" number which the Emotiva amps quote as well.

I think its obvious that in order to reach 400 watts per channel there was a sacrifice in SNR. You would think the SNR would be at least as good as their $800 amp.

-Brian
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I understand but those are apples to apple comparisions. The Emotiva amps were measured using the same standards and the Anthem number is a "full rated power" number which the Emotiva amps quote as well.

I think its obvious that in order to reach 400 watts per channel there was a sacrifice in SNR. You would think the SNR would be at least as good as their $800 amp.

-Brian
Understood and Anthem makes some great amps so I'm not surprised by their specs.
 
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