Emotiva XPR-5 Five-Channel Reference Power Amplifier Preview

[flyboylr45]

The equipment Audioholics reviews, is it given to them by a manufacturer or do they buy it, test it, and then review it? I'd be instead to see how expensive stuff, such as the Pass that is being used to power the Titus, some Mcintosh integrates (MA-7000) or the likes measure against more reasonably priced brands. It would be interesting to see in paper if they really do measure better and are worth the high price of admission. Just curious.

Funny to see people asking for VU meters on the Emo amps and some people can't stand the look of them on Macs!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In the future, I may do formal reviews of pro-amps with bench testing.

Why don't you do us all a great service by doing that?

If the Pro amps really suck, save us all the trouble! Please save us from making the mistake of buying pro amps.

If the Emotiva measures so much better than the Crown XLS, we need to stop the pro amp nonsense.

But Peter Aczel and The Audio Critics have in fact measured a few pro amps. Their staff does not believe pro amps sound any differently than consumer amps. They have measured the pro amps.

Here is one EXAMPLE.

Bryston consumer vs Behringer pro:

The PowerCube of one channel of the Bryston 875HT is shown in Fig. 6. Interestingly enough, it is not even as good as that of the dirt-cheap Behringer A500 (see the December 2005 review on this website). The power supply cuts out at 31.6 volts into 8Ω (125 watts), which at least it is able to deliver into all phase angles at 1% distortion, and then fades out significantly at lower impedances. I expected a more gentle slope of the top of the polyhedron, i.e., more power into the lower impedances, especially 4Ω. The power supply of each channel appears to be rather limited.

Here is the LINK.

 

[jinjuku]

It's not snobbery, its understanding and using equipment what its meant for. Designing an amp for sound reinforcement is much different than consumer audio. I have listened to and measured many pro amps in the past including those from Crown. They are fine amps for pro audio, they are light weight, efficient, high power, but they are at a disadvantage to well engineered consumer amps that are designed to play high resolution audio in an acoustically controlled listening space. That being said, most consumer amps, especially pure Class A ones, are unsuited for pro audio.

What measurements? There are a lot of pro amps and consumer amps that have the exact same topologies and even circuit layouts. Difference is one has a ton of heat sinking and another fans. One is 5-6 RU another is 2-3.

Any decently designed pro-amp is linear, low cross talk, solid SNR/THD. Part of this depends on what space of consumer amplification you want to talk about. If I can make it to the GTG in Florida I would love to take an hour and explore this a bit further. I have speakers that are above the bar sonically. Sorry but experience with Adcom/Carver/Parasound just don't lead me to that same conclusion at the price points I dabbled at. A $7500 Classe didn't change my mind either.

If designing an amp using a SMPS power supply and Class D topology was "similarly good" to designing an amp with a linear power supply and less efficient but more linear conventional power amp, then all other more expensive and inefficient topologies would quickly go away.

Tubes are a topology that haven't gone away either Gene.

It's important to understand what type of an environment a product is designed for and realize that there usually limitations outside of that environment.

The same goes with speakers, what is appropriate for small room acoustics is usually NOT for large listening venues.

Like what limitations or design differences? How does a Crown or ATI or Emotiva know it's pushing a Genelec studio monitor, JBL Line Array, Revel Salons? The design differences are in the connectivity: Ethernet, 485, 12v trigger etc, audio loop etc...

In the future, I may do formal reviews of pro-amps with bench testing but its really not our market and I'd rather stay more focused on consumer gear that is more appropriate for the home theater environment.

Fair enough but until something like a Crown MacroTech and a Parasound A21 have been benched up and A/B in a well thought out manner please keep in mind I've personally done installs were the amplification stack was no where in view of the client in their home.

Google Macrotech+NS10 and see how many mixing studios pop up that are running a Crown Macro/Microtech. Crown still makes D series also.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

Not fair.

That's pretty much what I said in a nutshell.

For some reasons people call me an "a$$", but no one calls you any names!

It's the name, isn't it?

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Your posts are very hard to read at times because they seem to be driven by emotion and lack the clarity of a fact based comment.

I have no doubt you know far more then I ever will about audio but you present it like a preacher not a professor. Some people are OK with that and it rubs others the wrong way. For me you take away from the experience and you are why I rarely come to this site. No big deal as every forum has people that you don't jive with and it's what makes the world go round. I've got other hobbies to keep up with and other audio sites to read. I'm sure you help a lot of people with your advice.

 

[gene]

What measurements? There are a lot of pro amps and consumer amps that have the exact same topologies and even circuit layouts. Difference is one has a ton of heat sinking and another fans. One is 5-6 RU another is 2-3.

Any decently designed pro-amp is linear, low cross talk, solid SNR/THD. Part of this depends on what space of consumer amplification you want to talk about. If I can make it to the GTG in Florida I would love to take an hour and explore this a bit further. I have speakers that are above the bar sonically. Sorry but experience with Adcom/Carver/Parasound just don't lead me to that same conclusion at the price points I dabbled at. A $7500 Classe didn't change my mind either.




Tubes are a topology that haven't gone away either Gene.




Like what limitations or design differences? How does a Crown or ATI or Emotiva know it's pushing a Genelec studio monitor, JBL Line Array, Revel Salons? The design differences are in the connectivity: Ethernet, 485, 12v trigger etc, audio loop etc...



Fair enough but until something like a Crown MacroTech and a Parasound A21 have been benched up and A/B in a well thought out manner please keep in mind I've personally done installs were the amplification stack was no where in view of the client in their home.

Google Macrotech+NS10 and see how many mixing studios pop up that are running a Crown Macro/Microtech. Crown still makes D series also.

I'm getting really tired of this thread being derailed as well as the general negativity towards Emotiva for launching a new series of amplifiers.

If you want to start a thread comparing pro vs consumer amps please do so but I'd like this thread to be steered back on course. As a moderator I hope you of all people can appreciate that.

You're also welcome to submit one of your favorite Pro amps for me to measure which can be discussed in the dedicated thread.

 

[gene]

Why don't you do us all a great service by doing that?

If the Pro amps really suck, save us all the trouble! Please save us from making the mistake of buying pro amps.

If the Emotiva measures so much better than the Crown XLS, we need to stop the pro amp nonsense.

But Peter Aczel and The Audio Critics have in fact measured a few pro amps. Their staff does not believe pro amps sound any differently than consumer amps. They have measured the pro amps.

Here is one EXAMPLE.

Bryston consumer vs Behringer pro:

The PowerCube of one channel of the Bryston 875HT is shown in Fig. 6. Interestingly enough, it is not even as good as that of the dirt-cheap Behringer A500 (see the December 2005 review on this website). The power supply cuts out at 31.6 volts into 8Ω (125 watts), which at least it is able to deliver into all phase angles at 1% distortion, and then fades out significantly at lower impedances. I expected a more gentle slope of the top of the polyhedron, i.e., more power into the lower impedances, especially 4Ω. The power supply of each channel appears to be rather limited.

Here is the LINK.

This is the last post I will make on this issue. START A THREAD Discussing Pro vs Consumer amps.

I briefed over the links you just sent on the Behringer and Bryston amps. They don't measure SNR from what I see but based on what they show I'd bet the Bryston has a better noise floor than the Behringer. The Bryston has MUCH better FFT distortion results and over -10dB better crosstalk performance at 20kHz and even a bigger difference at lower frequencies. Sure the Behringer has an edge in power output but you're comparing a 2CH vs 8CH amp. Check out a Bryston 14BBST - a great amp if you want to see bench mark performance, including power output.

That said HIGHER power doesn't always mean better sound. I've measured lower rated power amps that sound better than higher rated power amps. Measurements don't always give a total picture on how an amp can sound. I learned long ago to NOT just rely on measurements alone since measurements represent an ideal load condition with a worse case test signal. Real music and real speakers behave much differently.

Anyways, its time to MOVE this to another thread please.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Your posts are very hard to read at times because they seem to be driven by emotion and lack the clarity of a fact based comment.

Sorry man.

I do have a big mouth sometimes.

I retract my comments about Emotiva.

Some of us may not need 400wpc.

But some of us may need 400wpc.

I apologize for my offenses. I also apologize to the folks at Emotiva.

$2,000 (especially $1800) is a great deal for 400wpc x 5ch RMS 8ohms.

More power to Emotiva.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So all the XPR amps will be 400wpc?

The XPR-2 will be 400wpc x 2ch & the XPR-1 will be 400wpc x 1ch?

 

[PENG]

He better not be making fun of the B&W 802N or 802D speakers I'm trying to buy!

In that case you may want to give AJ a heads up.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In that case you may want to give AJ a heads up.

No one can talk me out of it!

I'm just fighting myself on 802N vs 802D.

They both look fabulous.

 

[templemaners]

No one can talk me out of it!

I'm just fighting myself on 802N vs 802D.

They both look fabulous.

Can we take bets on your eventual buyer's remorse thread?

I want to parlay 16 days after installing them with a "my 362's sound better than these!" comment.

 

[GO-NAD!]

He better not be making fun of the B&W 802N or 802D speakers I'm trying to buy!

Moi? Perish the thought.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Wow! I never would've expected a thread about what appears to be a great amp for a very reasonable price excite so much controversy. I'm not in the market, but if I was, I'd most certainly put Emotiva at the top of the list of contenders. You see, I don't have a money printing press in my basement like ADTG does...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Moi? Perish the thought.

Wow! I never would've expected a thread about what appears to be a great amp for a very reasonable price excite so much controversy. I'm not in the market, but if I was, I'd most certainly put Emotiva at the top of the list of contenders. You see, I don't have a money printing press in my basement like ADTG does...

You guys know I love B&W and Emotiva. It's like being around friends and family. You love them, but you still have some gripes and arguments.

I have money in the basement I don't know about?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can we take bets on your eventual buyer's remorse thread?

I want to parlay 16 days after installing them with a "my 362's sound better than these!" comment.

Never!

No way. No remorse!

As soon as I buy the B&W 802s, they will sound great!

No seriously. My family room is better than the dealer. And a lot of times we feel that speakers sound better to us over time (instead of 2 hrs of listening).

 

[MosesMalone]

After months of thorough research about making my first power amp purchase, i've pretty much consolidated my decision to go with an XPR-5. Here's some of my reasoning:

-Level matched, solid state power amps will sound more alike than different, so i'm basing my decision on other factors, stated below.
-Emotiva is known to provide excellent customer service and this thing has a 5 year warranty on it. There's a likelihood that they'll be around for a while (impossible to predict, but right now they're looking good as a company)
-High resale value. If you buy one of their amps on sale, you can sell them for nearly as much as you bought them during a period when they're not on sale. The warranty is user transferrable, which helps. There's also a 30 day money back guarantee if I immediately decide I hate it.
-Though probably not as refined in terms of circuitry and other components contained in a Parasound Halo or other well regarded amp, the XPR-5 provides very comparable specifications for the money. Speaking of money...
-Brand new, it's significantly cheaper than other options with similar specs, which is a huge plus for me, having a strict budget. This is a benefit of being internet direct. The downside is that they're made and assembled in China (a minor gripe for me -- other products like the Parasound are also China sourced.) These things seem to be solidly built and the enclosure looks to be made out of good quality material, not overbuilt to the extent of a Krell or Bryston, but for the price, I wasn't expecting it to be.
-400WPC is probably overkill for my situation and most others, but more power is never a bad thing and can provide for additional benefits such as extra headroom if I need it. My speakers aren't hard to drive, but they're not an easy load either. 4 ohms and okay sensitivity in the middle 80s. My room is very large and open, so I believe i'll benefit from a power amp of some sort at louder volumes.
-I have the space for a huge amp and personally think it looks very sleek. It matches the decor of my home theater. If I feel i'm being drowned by the blue lights, I have the option to dim or turn them off completely. If my house gets broken into, this amp is staying on it's rack due to its weight and bulk.

My concerns include:
-It's a brand new product and first waves of any electronic product can provide for quality control issues. This point is mitigated by the warranty and responsive customer service from Emotiva, so i've heard. In the case that something goes wrong with the amp, i'm hoping I don't have to pay return shipping.
-There's virtually no reviews of the product out there yet, so i'm taking a risk.
-Emotiva hasn't been around for as long as other companies, so no one really knows if their amps will last 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

I will let users in this thread know my thoughts when it arrives. I'm not expecting it to drastically change the sound of my set-up and on the contrary, i'm hoping it'll be more transparent than anything. As long as there's no noticeable hiss produced through my speakers from a distance, I think I will be happy with my decision.

 

[Adam]

After months of thorough research about making my first power amp purchase, i've pretty much consolidated my decision to go with an XPR-5.

Congrats!

Just remember - lift with your legs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After months of thorough research about making my first power amp purchase, i've pretty much consolidated my decision to go with an XPR-5. Here's some of my reasoning:

-Level matched, solid state power amps will sound more alike than different, so i'm basing my decision on other factors, stated below.
-Emotiva is known to provide excellent customer service and this thing has a 5 year warranty on it. There's a likelihood that they'll be around for a while (impossible to predict, but right now they're looking good as a company)
-High resale value. If you buy one of their amps on sale, you can sell them for nearly as much as you bought them during a period when they're not on sale. The warranty is user transferrable, which helps. There's also a 30 day money back guarantee if I immediately decide I hate it.
-Though probably not as refined in terms of circuitry and other components contained in a Parasound Halo or other well regarded amp, the XPR-5 provides very comparable specifications for the money. Speaking of money...
-Brand new, it's significantly cheaper than other options with similar specs, which is a huge plus for me, having a strict budget. This is a benefit of being internet direct. The downside is that they're made and assembled in China (a minor gripe for me -- other products like the Parasound are also China sourced.) These things seem to be solidly built and the enclosure looks to be made out of good quality material, not overbuilt to the extent of a Krell or Bryston, but for the price, I wasn't expecting it to be.
-400WPC is probably overkill for my situation and most others, but more power is never a bad thing and can provide for additional benefits such as extra headroom if I need it. My speakers aren't hard to drive, but they're not an easy load either. 4 ohms and okay sensitivity in the middle 80s. My room is very large and open, so I believe i'll benefit from a power amp of some sort at louder volumes.
-I have the space for a huge amp and personally think it looks very sleek. It matches the decor of my home theater. If my house gets broken into, this amp is staying on it's rack due to its weight and bulk. If I feel i'm being drowned by the blue lights, I have the option to dim or turn them off completely.

My concerns include:
-It's a brand new product and first waves of any electronic product can provide for quality control issues. This point is mitigated by the warranty and responsive customer service from Emotiva, so i've heard. In the case that something goes wrong with the amp, i'm hoping I don't have to pay return shipping.
-There's virtually no reviews of the product out there yet, so i'm taking a risk.
-Emotiva hasn't been around for as long as other companies, so no one really knows if their amps will last 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

I will let users in this thread know my thoughts when it arrives. I'm not expecting it to drastically change the sound of my set-up and on the contrary, i'm hoping it'll be more transparent than anything. As long as there's no noticeable hiss produced through my speakers from a distance, I think I will be happy with my decision.

Congratulations!

I'm sure the gain related speaker hiss is audible only if you place your ear 6 inches from the tweeter. From 1 ft away, you will not hear any hiss!

 

[MosesMalone]

Thanks guy! I'll be sure to enlist the help of another family member when it comes to moving this thing around.

 

[GranteedEV]

After months of thorough research about making my first power amp purchase, i've pretty much consolidated my decision to go with an XPR-5. Here's some of my reasoning:

-Level matched, solid state power amps will sound more alike than different, so i'm basing my decision on other factors, stated below.
-Emotiva is known to provide excellent customer service and this thing has a 5 year warranty on it. There's a likelihood that they'll be around for a while (impossible to predict, but right now they're looking good as a company)
-High resale value. If you buy one of their amps on sale, you can sell them for nearly as much as you bought them during a period when they're not on sale. The warranty is user transferrable, which helps. There's also a 30 day money back guarantee if I immediately decide I hate it.
-Though probably not as refined in terms of circuitry and other components contained in a Parasound Halo or other well regarded amp, the XPR-5 provides very comparable specifications for the money. Speaking of money...
-Brand new, it's significantly cheaper than other options with similar specs, which is a huge plus for me, having a strict budget. This is a benefit of being internet direct. The downside is that they're made and assembled in China (a minor gripe for me -- other products like the Parasound are also China sourced.) These things seem to be solidly built and the enclosure looks to be made out of good quality material, not overbuilt to the extent of a Krell or Bryston, but for the price, I wasn't expecting it to be.
-400WPC is probably overkill for my situation and most others, but more power is never a bad thing and can provide for additional benefits such as extra headroom if I need it. My speakers aren't hard to drive, but they're not an easy load either. 4 ohms and okay sensitivity in the middle 80s. My room is very large and open, so I believe i'll benefit from a power amp of some sort at louder volumes.
-I have the space for a huge amp and personally think it looks very sleek. It matches the decor of my home theater. If I feel i'm being drowned by the blue lights, I have the option to dim or turn them off completely. If my house gets broken into, this amp is staying on it's rack due to its weight and bulk.

My concerns include:
-It's a brand new product and first waves of any electronic product can provide for quality control issues. This point is mitigated by the warranty and responsive customer service from Emotiva, so i've heard. In the case that something goes wrong with the amp, i'm hoping I don't have to pay return shipping.
-There's virtually no reviews of the product out there yet, so i'm taking a risk.
-Emotiva hasn't been around for as long as other companies, so no one really knows if their amps will last 10, 15, 20 years down the road.

I will let users in this thread know my thoughts when it arrives. I'm not expecting it to drastically change the sound of my set-up and on the contrary, i'm hoping it'll be more transparent than anything. As long as there's no noticeable hiss produced through my speakers from a distance, I think I will be happy with my decision.

I'm sure you'll find the XPR-65 to be a very effective workhorse, just like the namesake of your handle