Emotiva XPR-5 Five-Channel Reference Power Amplifier Preview

[Adam]

Seems like we are buying Watts instead of SQ at this point.

You might just be buying bragging rights. 1 kW? No denying, that's cool.

I've pretty much proven to myself that I don't need anywhere near that much power, so it's not for me - but I gotta say, I like the idea.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would rather spend the money on optimizing the amps for headroom, dynamic, etc. for real world music/movie enjoyment, instead of on a super strong PS just to claim a so call honest ACD rating that looks good on ACD bench test but not so good for real world applications.

What situation would warrant an XPR-1 over an XPA-1. I understand extra headroom is always nice, but I just can't imagine a situation where the XPA-1 is challenged! (hard to imagine an XPA-2 being challenged, but XPA-1???).
Seems like we are buying Watts instead of SQ at this point.

Yup. Agree 100%. But like speakers and everything else, we don't always buy based on rhyme or reason.

Some guys want 1000 Watts because................well...........that's.....what he wants.

I guess I can't fault Emotiva (or anyone) for wanting to make some money.

Man, I must be in a good mood or something.

 

[Adam]

I'd like one that can do "one...point...twenty-one...gigawatts! "

 

[GranteedEV]

What situation would warrant an XPR-1 over an XPA-1.

Well, for starters a passive subwoofer in a movie-watching setup. The LFE channel in movies requires 10db more headroom than the main channels. So if your mains have a peak SPL in movies around 100db, the LFE should be hitting 110db. Is your sub 10db more efficient than your mains?

The other scenario where this kind of power would be useful is for rare speakers that CAN actually dissipate some power but have low efficiency. The Revel Salon2, for example is 83db/w/m - in order to hit reference level peaks (105db) with them at ~~11 feet you'd need about 1700 watts into 4 ohm - which is probably what that XPR-1 hits. ...of course...not as good an idea as getting 93db/w/m speakers that can hit the same SPL with literally a tenth of that power.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You might just be buying bragging rights. 1 kW? No denying, that's cool.

I've pretty much proven to myself that I don't need anywhere near that much power, so it's not for me - but I gotta say, I like the idea.

Would you rather have a 100wpc Bryston or a 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Krell vs 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Mark Levinson vs Emotiva 1000wpc?

 

[KEW]

Well, for starters a passive subwoofer in a movie-watching setup. The LFE channel in movies requires 10db more headroom than the main channels. So if your mains have a peak SPL in movies around 100db, the LFE should be hitting 110db. Is your sub 10db more efficient than your mains?

The other scenario where this kind of power would be useful is for rare speakers that CAN actually dissipate some power but have low efficiency. The Revel Salon2, for example is 83db/w/m - in order to hit reference level peaks (105db) with them at ~~11 feet you'd need about 1700 watts into 4 ohm - which is probably what that XPR-1 hits. ...of course...not as good an idea as getting 93db/w/m speakers that can hit the same SPL with literally a tenth of that power.

But aren't you talking peak demands? Isn't that what those lovely rows of capacitors in the xpa do?

Understand - I'm learning, not arguing.

 

[GranteedEV]

But aren't you talking peak demands? Isn't that what those lovely rows of capacitors in the xpa do?

How long is a dynamic peak in the source material? Can an XPA-1 deliver for that length of time?

Besides, If you look at most "peak" testing it adds about ~20% power or so. An XPA-1 is rated at 1000w @ 4 ohm, so 120% of that is still about 500 watts short to hit that aformentioned 1700w mark. 500w is not exactly a small amount, even though it's only gonna give about 1db of headroom

 

[edoggrc51]

What situation would warrant an XPR-1 over an XPA-1. I understand extra headroom is always nice, but I just can't imagine a situation where the XPA-1 is challenged! (hard to imagine an XPA-2 being challenged, but XPA-1???).
Seems like we are buying Watts instead of SQ at this point.

I'm not really sure on how Emotiva stands on the XPA-1 vs XPR-1 and what they consider to be the "top dog".

As for the XPA-2 vs XPA-1's, Ive had both. The monoblocks were CLEARY better for music, actually much much better. However for HT, the difference wasn't nearly as much.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As for the XPA-2 vs XPA-1's, Ive had both. The monoblocks were CLEARY better for music, actually much much better. However for HT, the difference wasn't nearly as much.

Much much better in terms of being louder or clearer or what?

Please don't tell me the bass was more punchy and beefy, the midrange was more chocolaty, and the tweeter was sweeter.

 

[edoggrc51]

Much much better in terms of being louder or clearer or what?

Please don't tell me the bass was more punchy and beefy, the midrange was more chocolaty, and the tweeter was sweeter.

Soundstage was wider and it had more depth. The separation between the different instruments playing were more noticeable. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me, in my room with my gear, the monoblocks were just more detailed the XPA-2. Volume really wasn't an issue.

 

[Adam]

Would you rather have a 100wpc Bryston or a 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Krell vs 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Mark Levinson vs Emotiva 1000wpc?

If I'd had the positive experience with Emotiva that others here have, then I'd pick them. Clearly, they are capable of providing a good experience, and 1kW is pretty cool. With my own experience, though, I'd pick anybody else.

 

[KEW]

How long is a dynamic peak in the source material? Can an XPA-1 deliver for that length of time?

Besides, If you look at most "peak" testing it adds about ~20% power or so. An XPA-1 is rated at 1000w @ 4 ohm, so 120% of that is still about 500 watts short to hit that aformentioned 1700w mark. 500w is not exactly a small amount, even though it's only gonna give about 1db of headroom

Thanks!
That really changes my perspective on power assessment. I need to rethink my amp plans!

500W for 1db! - talk about diminishing returns! (not that I'm in that extreme scenario)

 

[jdskycaster]

Would you rather have a 100wpc Bryston or a 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Krell vs 1000wpc Emotiva?

Or a 100wpc Mark Levinson vs Emotiva 1000wpc?[/QUOTE]

1000wpc would be overkill for me but since there is no other choice I would have to take it as 100wpc would not meet my current needs.

Brand equity, independent reviews, spec sheets and MSRP are a good starting point when looking for an amp or any other product for that matter. If you are a "money is no object" person that is great but for the rest of us we look for alternatives that can deliver performance beyond their price. Maybe the XPR-5 does that maybe it does not as I have not personally had a chance to wire one up to my speakers or to actually blind test it against any of the manufacturers you suggest.

Reading the posts in this thread just gives one the impression that you enjoy dropping nameplates as if this somehow guarantees the owner the absolute best experience. My past experience tells me this is just not an absolute. I will clarify that all of my direct experience comparing boutique brands to more mainstream products was 15 years ago so maybe everything has changed, I doubt it but am always open to learning. It is just with all of the blind testing I had the opportunity to participate in at that time was so convincing I guess it will take quite a bit to sway my opinion back in the direction of wholesale believing that price and brand neame automatically equates to performance end user experience.

 

[Adam]

Reading the posts in this thread just gives one the impression that you enjoy dropping nameplates as if this somehow guarantees the owner the absolute best experience.

To be fair, ADTG was the first (I think) to mention the Crown amps that are less expensive and don't fall into the boutique nameplate arena. From what he's written, he really likes their performance. They're inexpensive and lightweight. This isn't intended to restart the pro versus consumer amp conversation, btw , but just a point of reference that he (IMO) is much more into performance than names.

Btw, you make good points, but I think that ADTG's posts have given you the wrong impression about him.

 

[GranteedEV]

500W for 1db! - talk about diminishing returns! (not that I'm in that extreme scenario)

My opinion on amps is this

Every doubling of power yields 3db more.

So from 1w to 2w, you gain 3db
From 1w to 128W, you gain 21db.
from 128W to 256W, you gain 3db <--- this is where the diminishing returns start to hit! Not only that, it's also where speakers' thermal management starts to become a problem.

In my opinion, your speaker "should" be close to 93db/w/m efficient if you need reference level 105db peaks at 10 feet away. For a 4 ohm speaker, that actually means a high sensitivity at 96db/2.83v/m. Less efficient speakers will only convert more power into more heat. but yes you can probably get away with ~90db/w/m efficient speakers because few of us really watch movies at exactly reference. 102db peaks at 10 feet is pretty good for 128 watts. But most 90db/2.83v/m speakers are 4 ohm, which means they're actually 87db/w/m. the JBL LSR 6332s are 90db/w/m or 93db/2.83v/m

..... if your system ever sees benefit from a kW amp, then your speakers are probably at fault.

It's tough for an LFE subwoofer though, because of the 10db higher headroom requirements. So for a single 93db subwoofer, you would need 1280 watts! And if the subwoofer reaches down to 20hz, 93db efficiency is beyond optimistic. The only drivers I know with efficiency like that are expensive 21 inchers like the B&C 21sw152 and Mach V FTW-21 - and if THESE drivers need over a thousand watts to hit reference on their own, you can only imagine the 10 and 12 inch sealed subs with smaller magnets and attempts at deep, low extension!

So overall I think you're right - we really should NOT need kW amps for our main speakers. The speakers either won't handle it without compression of the signal, or they simply won't need it due to their efficiency.

 

[deputy dog]

I just finished reading all the pages of replies and have not really grasped whether or not anyone on this post has actually bought or listened to or physically compared or used the new XPR-5. I have waited over a year to purchase the XPR-5 once I heard it was in the works back toward the end of 2010. I just bought it based on the sale price and free shipping, in order to replace my old Nikko alpha 220 amplifiers that I have had since the 1980's and to pair it up with my DENON AVP-A1HDCI that I just had upgraded. I will be using it with my custom made Kinetic Audio speakers also from the 1980's and my Linn Isobarik front speakers with PSB center channel and a NHT SUB coupled with a Velodyne SUB. along with 2 small KEF'S in the rear ceiling. Maybe I was taken in by marketing ploys at EMOTIVA but I bought it with the understanding that I would hear and feel a big sonic improvement. Has anyone actually physically worked with the XPR-5? I forgot to add that I still have not unboxed it yet, so I have also not been able to preview it's capabilities, however, I did run a separate 20 amp circuit for the XPR-5 which was not too difficult.

 

[Steve81]

Maybe I was taken in by marketing ploys at EMOTIVA but I bought it with the understanding that I would hear and feel a big sonic improvement.

It may yield an improvement over your thirty year old amplifiers, depending on their current condition/performance. However, unless you're in need of power that exceeds the capabilities of say, an XPA-5, I wouldn't expect any significant improvement versus that amplifier.

 

[Gordonj]

I just finished reading all the pages of replies and have not really grasped whether or not anyone on this post has actually bought or listened to or physically compared or used the new XPR-5. I have waited over a year to purchase the XPR-5 once I heard it was in the works back toward the end of 2010. I just bought it based on the sale price and free shipping, in order to replace my old Nikko alpha 220 amplifiers that I have had since the 1980's and to pair it up with my DENON AVP-A1HDCI that I just had upgraded. I will be using it with my custom made Kinetic Audio speakers also from the 1980's and my Linn Isobarik front speakers with PSB center channel and a NHT SUB coupled with a Velodyne SUB. along with 2 small KEF'S in the rear ceiling. Maybe I was taken in by marketing ploys at EMOTIVA but I bought it with the understanding that I would hear and feel a big sonic improvement. Has anyone actually physically worked with the XPR-5? I forgot to add that I still have not unboxed it yet, so I have also not been able to preview it's capabilities, however, I did run a separate 20 amp circuit for the XPR-5 which was not too difficult.

Congrats!!!

Now.
Unbox that thing and have fun!

Gordon

 

[ancient hippy]

i have my doubts as to a 20 amp service being able to provide 2000 watts (400x5) 20 amps squared x 8 ohms= 3200 watts. max power transfer 50% leaves you with 1600 watts at best. emotiva has lowered cost through the use of a trick power supply that enables them to get away with a smaller transformer bryston 4b 250 watts x 2 has 2 transformers each of which is larger than the transformer in the xpr-5. my understanding is that power supplies that switch rail voltages can be problematic in both performance and reliability. are they using ic chips at output stage to further reduce cost. (power transistors are required for audiophile performance) in general i would have to say i have my doubts as to it being able to deliver on the claimed specifications or to it being of reference quality. im sounding fairly negative but at this price point 5 year transferable warranty and 30 days to check it out i would order one if i didnt live in canada

 

[ImcLoud]

i have my doubts as to a 20 amp service being able to provide 2000 watts (400x5) 20 amps squared x 8 ohms= 3200 watts. max power transfer 50% leaves you with 1600 watts at best. emotiva has lowered cost through the use of a trick power supply that enables them to get away with a smaller transformer bryston 4b 250 watts x 2 has 2 transformers each of which is larger than the transformer in the xpr-5. my understanding is that power supplies that switch rail voltages can be problematic in both performance and reliability. are they using ic chips at output stage to further reduce cost. (power transistors are required for audiophile performance) in general i would have to say i have my doubts as to it being able to deliver on the claimed specifications or to it being of reference quality. im sounding fairly negative but at this price point 5 year transferable warranty and 30 days to check it out i would order one if i didnt live in canada

People looking for a good amp for their theater that want a couple thousand watts don't have many options, and I cant think of one {besides class D} that costs around $2000... So it is, what it is, would you pair it with 5 $8000 speakers probably not, but there is a market for these products...

Not everyone can drive an S class, but that doesn't mean they have to walk, thanks to companies like Kia.